Obamacare 5 years later. Crow, anyone?

[3point14]

'How Insurance Works' or 'Insurance 101' shold be a mandatory course.

 

[iknownothing]

Sure. Assuming that CR has an extra $20 to $50 per month to set aside in the first place.

Look - I've been there. I spent years rubbing two pennies together hoping they'd somehow mate and produce a third. I lived for a good long time on Ramen with some cheap ground beef added, and nothing else in the way of nutrition. There was a point where about every 3 months we had enough extra to get one pepperoni pizza from Little Caesars - that was big spending for us.

The assumption that $20 to $50 a month is no big deal, and everyone should be able to plan for that... is well... naive reflection of privilege. Not saying it's a bad thing - I don't attach any moral judgment to the term, and it doesn't imply anything about merit. It's simply that we all take our experiences as the baseline from which we assume normality. If you grew up in a household where $20 a month was easily doable, then the idea that that is prohibitively expensive to someone seems absurd.

But what CR is talking about is turning down additional income, out of fear of the fines. I get it that $20/month can be a big deal. But I don't get why someone would fear making (for example) an extra $50 in a month out of fear that it could result in paying that fine. Aren't you still $30 richer for having taken on the extra work?

 

[paulhutch]

But what CR is talking about is turning down additional income, out of fear of the fines. I get it that $20/month can be a big deal. But I don't get why someone would fear making (for example) an extra $50 in a month out of fear that it could result in paying that fine. Aren't you still $30 richer for having taken on the extra work?

AIUI, the catch is that the fine is based on a whole year and can't be applied as 12 monthly fines. So if she got $50 more one month but not the other 11 she'd end up with a large shortfall.

 

[CynicalSkeptic]

Sure. Assuming that CR has an extra $20 to $50 per month to set aside in the first place.

Point taken about privilege. However, the main point I was arguing was CR's claim that she can't earn more money because she'd have to pay a huge fine, and the ACA is FORCING her to live in poverty.

If she makes more money, say $1000 a year, that would more than cover the fine.

Another one of her claims was if that the fine goes up the more she makes. I showed (with out of date numbers) that that wasn't true unless she makes something like $15,000 more per year, and when the fine goes up it's insignificant (1% last year 2% this year) relative to the increase in income.

I wasn't intending to dog-pile, I was disputing her claims.

 

[Biscuit]

In a way, the hilighted bit is true. I'm in a situation right now where I can't work more without losing my health insurance and then having to pay fines I can't afford because I lost my health insurance.

I make just under the cutoff for Medicaid. If I work extra hours or get a bonus, I lose my health insurance. So, I have absolutely no incentive to work extra when there's extra work available; in fact, I have a very strong disincentive. I'd be surprised if I were the only one in this situation.

Nonsense. If you are a single adult in AZ the annual income cut off for medicaid is $15,600. The 2015 fine for not having insurance is the greater of 2% of taxable income or $365.00.

I also live in AZ and while I pay $150.00 a month for my plan through the market place I saw monthly plans for under $100.00 when I did my renewal this year. We have huge population of retirees so we have something like 16 insurance companies offering plans in AZ and that makes it a very competitive market place.

If your monthly income is $1300.00 ($15,600.00 / 12 months) and you are turning down extra income in order to stay on medicaid what would it take to get you to an annual income of $20K? It takes an extra $365.00 a month worth of work. A little over one month would cover your fine (apx $400.00) and then you have no insurance just as you want OR you could pocket $265.00 extra a month and pay $100.00 for insurance on the market place for a net income gain of $3,180.00 a year.

No incentive to work more? I don't buy it.

ETA: Once you are shopping for your own insurance on the market place you, at 20K a year, would be eligible for subsidies so you could get a plan even better than the $100.00 or use the subsidies on the $100 dollar plans and pocket even more money!

 

[Biscuit]

My ACA story. I am self employed and went without health care for 7+ years in my 20's and early 30's because after I struck out on my own in my early 20's I couldn't get any plan that would cover my pre-existing condition. Other than my back problems I am a perfectly healthy person and chose to take the risk of not having insurance. At some point, I don't recall when, I developed a hernia which I chose to ignore as it was small, it didn't hurt, and I didn't have thousands of dollars for surgery.

Along comes Obama care. I now have an affordable plan that covers my pre existing condition and I finally had my, now large, hernia repaired 3 weeks ago. Total cost of surgery, and I mean co-pays and all - total cost, under $1000.00.

Knowing I am not going to lose everything if I get sick has reaped untold benefits to my mental health. The ACA is a small business man's wet dream.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

It has a replacement, business as usual before it was passed. That is a alternative and one that many people including you preferred when it was passed.

The fact that I was generally against the law doesn't mean I have (or had) a black and white view of some its benefits or that I would outright favor repealing the thing without considering the consequences if it's done recklessly. The Ted Cruzes of the Republican party tried to repeal it without a plan of action and just as the law took full effect. It would have been utter chaos for that to have happened, so yes I'd like the law changed to better suit matters but no, I'm not interested in repealing the law just for the heck of it. Now, my next question is will you read my responses and respond with productive criticism, or are we going to continue ignoring the substance and run with the stereotyping and mind reading? I'm afraid I don't have any interest if it's going to continue with the latter.

My problems with the prior status quo and the current one, is when I have to deal with urgent care check ups that cost $700 for 10 minutes, two X-rays, and a foot wrap to go home with. Insurance premiums are skjy high because health care costs are sky high, and the ACA ttries to address this by spreading costs through taxation and cost sharing, which is nice and puts a bandaid on it, but doesn't stop the inflation. And some of the European insurance systems have had similar issues where the funding is still hit because of the cost factor from the treatments and medicines themselves, and as well, based on an aging population impacting the capability of younger insured to carry the cost burden.

 

[RandFan]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but....

Both of my sons signed up for Obamacare over a year ago. Neither have ever had it. Both were told they had it but when they went to a doctor they were both told, seperately, that they were canceled. Both have been to many appointments and both have been fined for not having insurance. Both have letters of acceptance (doctors do not accept letters of acceptance).

In January my youngest son made an appointment with his insurance rep who laughed and told him to change doctors because since he was in the system obviously the doctor's office must be incompetent.

My son changed doctors. He was told again that he didn't have coverage. He made another appointment with the case worker. She quit. Both have been to the whitehouse site numerous times. I've written letters. My kids have written letters. I've called on their behalf (I was told to have them come in).

So, my son made an appointment. Showed up on time. Was told that the appointment was cancelled.

If anyone has any advice, I'm pro Obamacare, I'd happily listen.

• My youngest is currently unemployed.
• My oldest works at Target and does not qualify for their insuance because he works less than the minimum to get benefits.

 

[paulhutch]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but....

Both of my sons signed up for Obamacare over a year ago. Neither have ever had it. Both were told they had it but when they went to a doctor they were both told, seperately, that they were canceled. Both have been to many appointments and both have been fined for not having insurance. Both have letters of acceptance (doctors do not accept letters of acceptance).

Sorry to hear you've had so much trouble. Can't remember what state you are in but pretty sure it's not Massachusetts so I can't help with specifics.

However one thing that sticks out to me is that you thought a letter of acceptance meant they had insurance. AFAIK until you have received the insurance ID card you can not count on actually having insurance and hospitals/doctors will not consider you to have insurance without an insurance ID card.

 

[RandFan]

Sorry to hear you've had so much trouble. Can't remember what state you are in but pretty sure it's not Massachusetts so I can't help with specifics.

I'm in California.

However one thing that sticks out to me is that you thought a letter of acceptance meant they had insurance. AFAIK until you have received the insurance ID card you can not count on actually having insurance and hospitals/doctors will not consider you to have insurance without an insurance ID card.

Thanks.

 

[Lowpro]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but....

Both of my sons signed up for Obamacare over a year ago. Neither have ever had it. Both were told they had it but when they went to a doctor they were both told, seperately, that they were canceled. Both have been to many appointments and both have been fined for not having insurance. Both have letters of acceptance (doctors do not accept letters of acceptance).

In January my youngest son made an appointment with his insurance rep who laughed and told him to change doctors because since he was in the system obviously the doctor's office must be incompetent.

My son changed doctors. He was told again that he didn't have coverage. He made another appointment with the case worker. She quit. Both have been to the whitehouse site numerous times. I've written letters. My kids have written letters. I've called on their behalf (I was told to have them come in).

So, my son made an appointment. Showed up on time. Was told that the appointment was cancelled.

If anyone has any advice, I'm pro Obamacare, I'd happily listen.

• My youngest is currently unemployed.
• My oldest works at Target and does not qualify for their insuance because he works less than the minimum to get benefits.

Uh, there's something off with this. If they signed up a year ago and only say they have a letter of acceptance and not some kind of plan ID# etc then they need to find out their plan's insurance identification.

However you said that your sons were told their plan (which they've had for over a year) has been cancelled which can be for a few reasons but I don't know which state(s) they're in but usually if they've been cancelled its because your sons were derelict in payments or providing information

This story needs relevant info. If your sons BOUGHT insurance, IE they paid money and bought a plan it will be effective at the start of the following month and LoA are no longer relevant; policy #/ID# are (and usually that # is given...nigh immediately after purchase). That's what a doc's office needs to take. Furthermore if the insurance they bought is through a private company's exchange plan they won't use the WhiteHouse site, they'll use that insurance company. They need to go to Covered California to navigate this.

 

[RandFan]

However one thing that sticks out to me is that you thought a letter of acceptance meant they had insurance. AFAIK until you have received the insurance ID card you can not count on actually having insurance and hospitals/doctors will not consider you to have insurance without an insurance ID card.

BTW: I called the former case worker and she told me that if the name is in the system you have insurance. That was her way to get me off the phone. "He's in the system, there's no more I can do. If the doctors don't accept the insurance I can't help." "Even if the doctor says he accepts my son's chosen plan?" I asked. Even then.

 

[Howie Felterbush]

BTW: I called the former case worker and she told me that if the name is in the system you have insurance. That was her way to get me off the phone. "He's in the system, there's no more I can do. If the doctors don't accept the insurance I can't help." "Even if the doctor says he accepts my son's chosen plan?" I asked. Even then.

This is like everyone's worst nightmare. Two competing bureaucracies, one insisting something is wrong and the other insisting everything's fine and you're in the middle

Good luck, RandFan.

 

[RandFan]

This is like everyone's worst nightmare. Two competing bureaucracies, one insisting something is wrong and the other insisting everything's fine and you're in the middle

Good luck, RandFan.

Thanks Howie.

 

[Elf Grinder 3000]

Where are you hearing this? And how are you defining "horrible"?

I heard it from someone from Canada and an american who lived in the UK.

She literally had to operate on herself because she couldn't get to see a doctor.

UK sucks and their health care sucks too. Canada isn't even a real cocuntry its more like America's unofficial northern territory.

 

[Elf Grinder 3000]

You hear wrong.

Is the CBO wrong? Its going to cost 2 Trillion over the next 10 years, it will drive up prices and ruin our health care. Oh and the website doesn't work.

I would rather have my health care come from the free market.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/c...trillion-over-the-next-decade/article/2559276

 

[Tricky]

I heard it from someone from Canada and an american who lived in the UK.

She literally had to operate on herself because she couldn't get to see a doctor.

UK sucks and their health care sucks too. Canada isn't even a real cocuntry its more like America's unofficial northern territory.

And of course, you have a link to a reputable news source that verifies this claim.

 

[Shalamar]

Is the CBO wrong? Its going to cost 2 Trillion over the next 10 years, it will drive up prices and ruin our health care. Oh and the website doesn't work.

I would rather have my health care come from the free market.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/c...trillion-over-the-next-decade/article/2559276

That's strange. Canada's Healthcare is going fine. My family lives in Canada. They have no problems getting good, and timely healthcare without going bankrupt trying to pay for it.

You hear wrong. You have no argument you lose.

 

[The Don]

I heard it from someone from Canada and an american who lived in the UK.

She literally had to operate on herself because she couldn't get to see a doctor.

UK sucks and their health care sucks too. Canada isn't even a real cocuntry its more like America's unofficial northern territory.

Riiiiiiight

 

[pharphis]

That's strange. Canada's Healthcare is going fine. My family lives in Canada. They have no problems getting good, and timely healthcare without going bankrupt trying to pay for it.

You hear wrong. You have no argument you lose.

Same. Guess that's 2 anecdotes vs 1...

Also I'm going to pretend I know someone in the UK and they think their healthcare is just fine as well.

Perfect