Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Kevin_Lowe]

So, what you are saying is that you have no evidence to produce of Amanda calling a drug dealer or that this alleged drug dealer supplied her with drugs? Is that it?

Notwithstanding your last sentence, this press report quotes a police source stating that Guede and Amanda were in phone contact before and after the murder. It is wrong, of course. But, in any case, there is no mention of drugs.

So, either produce some evidence of an early report about drugs and dealers in relation to Amanda, cite calls from her phone records, or else withdraw your allegations.

I would go so far as to say that the claim that Amanda Knox and Rudy Guede were in phone contact prior to the murder could be substantiated, it would be the greatest pro-guilt breakthrough in the history of the case since Massei.

An impassable barrier to a coherent pro-guilt narrative has always been that Knox and Guede had minimal prior contact and a major language barrier, because Amanda's Italian was terrible at the time and Guede spoke no English. So how on Earth are they supposed to have spontaneously conspired in some kind of bizarre three-way murder plot and cover-up? Did they play Charades?

If Knox and Guede were in fact constantly on the phone to each other it would solve the whole problem at a stroke.

However that's exactly the problem. It's too good to be true. If the claim was true and supported it would have been a central plank of the pro-guilt position from the first. The fact that it has not been, and that absolutely nowhere in Massei/Christiani or any other court document is this claim even mentioned proves that in fact the police never had any such evidence. Or if they did, the Marriot Freemason Conspiracy Supertanker made it disappear and then they used Men In Black memory erasure devices to make all the police forget it ever existed.

 

[Grinder]

Clearly Giobbi framed Amanda because there are pictures of Amanda on his wall framed

Police often use illegal means and are guilty of misconduct in convicting guilty people but they didn't frame them because...they are guilty.

Please find a person saying "I was framed" for a crime for which he was guilty.

By expanding the term you make it useless.

"The police framed that guy."

"Really was he guilty or innocent?"

frame-up (frām′ŭp′)
n. Informal
1. A scheme to incriminate an innocent person.

Cite -Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

frame′-up`

n.
a fraudulent incrimination of an innocent person.
Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.

frame-up
noun (Slang) false charge, set-up (slang), fabrication, fit-up (slang), trumped-up charge, put-up job He was innocent and the victim of a frame-up.

Collins Thesaurus of the English Language – Complete and Unabridged 2nd Edition. 2002 © HarperCollins Publishers 1995, 2002

fit up
vb (tr, adverb)
1. (often foll by with) to equip or provide: the optician will soon fit you up with a new pair of glasses.
2. Brit to incriminate (someone) on a false charge; frame: he was fitted up for the bank job.
n

FRAME
a : to devise falsely (as a criminal charge)
b : to contrive the evidence against (an innocent person) so that a verdict of guilty is assured

merriam-webster.com

 

[Vixen]

[/HILITE]

In the spirit of your interest in the truth, perhaps you will start by acknowledging your egregious errors made plain in my post, reproduced at the top of this one.

Kauffer, you have not quoted the entire email home. I know the part about Amanda banging on Mez' door is embarrassing.

 

[Vixen]

You need to be more specific. What is your source?

<Heavy sigh> It's all in the police statements.

 

[Strozzi]

The real question is, will Vixen actually reexamine her position with all the corrected information or just move on and start spouting other discredited guilter points? I'm betting on the latter.

You do understand that some who do not reexamine their positions with the corrected information and just move on and spout other discredited information are not doing it because they are ignorant. They do it because they are willful.

Willful, willful? Where have I read that word recently? Was it in the discussion of the definition of framing?

 

[RoseMontague]

Rose is this the framing response? I looked but didn't find anything else. My apologies.

No worries. I was just picking.

 

[RoseMontague]

Raf by his own account was "an extensive drug user", who had dabbled in hash, cocaine and acid, and had grappled with mental illness (depression).

Where is that quote coming from?

Amanda's own words to the police.

Your statement is incorrect, then.

 

[Bill Williams]

Amanda's own words to the police.

You need to be more specific. What is your source?

<Heavy sigh> It's all in the police statements.

You gave this a "<heavy sigh>"? Can you not see what is wrong with your series of responses in this thread?

 

[Vixen]

Source

In her statement Ms Knox claimed that Mr Sollecito had confided to her that in the past he had used cocaine and acid and that he suffered from depression. Mr Sollecito claims that on the evening of the murder he was at his computer until 1am, but police tests are said to have disproved this.

--------
TIMES 22.11.2007 Richard Owen

 

[Desert Fox]

Again Grinder, this comes down to definitions. Your definition seems much more limited than Numbers and mIne. I think the police can and do often frame guilty suspects or at least suspects they believe to be guilty. Actual planting of evidence probably goes beyond the activities that most would employ. This case clearly includes suborning false testimonies like Curatolo, Quintavlle and Rinaldi. It includes the omission of exculpatory evidence such as the negative TMB test results and the controls of the DNA tests and probably much more.

A classic example is Charles Lindbergh stating that he recognized Richard Hauptmann's voice when he said something like two words. I think the evidence of Hauptmann's guilt is solid yet I believe the testimony is false.

 

[RoseMontague]

In her statement Ms Knox claimed that Mr Sollecito had confided to her that in the past he had used cocaine and acid and that he suffered from depression. Mr Sollecito claims that on the evening of the murder he was at his computer until 1am, but police tests are said to have disproved this.

--------
TIMES 22.11.2007 Richard Owen

You have a link to the exact quote that Raf by his on account was an "extensive drug user", who had dabbled in hash, cocaine and acid, and had grappled with mental illness (depression)?

 

[Grinder]

A classic example is Charles Lindbergh stating that he recognized Richard Hauptmann's voice when he said something like two words. I think the evidence of Hauptmann's guilt is solid yet I believe the testimony is false.

And no where will you find a statement he was framed. Did Lindbergh lie? Maybe. Did he frame him? not if he was guilty.

Read the darn definitions.

Frame up, framed, framing are the same as fit up, fitted up or whatever the participle is.

 

[Grinder]

You have a link to the exact quote that Raf by his on account was an "extensive drug user", who had dabbled in hash, cocaine and acid, and had grappled with mental illness (depression)?

More Richard Owen three two one - not that it is true but if it was what would it prove in this case?

 

[Vixen]

You gave this a "<heavy sigh>"? Can you not see what is wrong with your series of responses in this thread?

Another:

He said his son - who has asked to speak to investigators later this week for the first time since his arrest - had been “consistent” in his assertions that he was not at the cottage on the night of the murder but at his own flat. “The only thing he does not remember exactly is whether Amanda was with him the whole night or whether she went out and came back”, Dr Sollecito told Italian TV.
He said Raffaele was confused because he had smoked cannabis that evening. “I did not know he did this, but I do know he never used hard drugs”, Dr Sollecito said. Ms Knox has claimed that Mr Sollecito told her he had used “cocaine and acid”.

27.11.2007 TIMES Richard Owen

 

[Vixen]

You have a link to the exact quote that Raf by his on account was an "extensive drug user", who had dabbled in hash, cocaine and acid, and had grappled with mental illness (depression)?

We have already discussed this. It is in the evidence list re Amanda's Prison Diary wherein she listed the names of the men recently slept with, and against Raf's name she wrote "extensive use of drugs", in respect of potential HIV infection.


Pay attention at the back!

 

[RoseMontague]

More Richard Owen three two one - not that it is true but if it was what would it prove in this case?

That particular piece is behind a paywall, Google shows a discussion about it with SA and Jools on PMF a long time ago. Or they could just read Amanda's diary to find out what she said.

 

[Desert Fox]

And no where will you find a statement he was framed. Did Lindbergh lie? Maybe. Did he frame him? not if he was guilty.

Read the darn definitions.

Frame up, framed, framing are the same as fit up, fitted up or whatever the participle is.

I think what is important is if we understand each other.
If I said "I think Hauptmann is guilty but I believe that he was framed," would you understand what I mean?

 

[RoseMontague]

We have already discussed this. It is in the evidence list re Amanda's Prison Diary wherein she listed the names of the men recently slept with, and against Raf's name she wrote "extensive use of drugs", in respect of potential HIV infection.

Pay attention at the back!

So you don't have a link to the article itself? That's what you said your source was. Or are you quoting the PMF discussion between Jools and SA?

 

[Vixen]

More Richard Owen three two one - not that it is true but if it was what would it prove in this case?

It's the link to Rudy : drugs.

There's Federico, cocaine dealer, whose number was on Amanda's cell phone, and whom she rang before and after the murder. Kokomani. Rudy himself was said to be terrified of the dealers operating on Perugia cathedral steps.

 

[Vixen]

So you don't have a link to the article itself? That's what you said your source was. Or are you quoting the PMF discussion between Jools and SA?

What? Someone here kindly provided a direct link to it. It is the official Italian document.