Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[RoseMontague]

Police claim they could not find these letters - AF - Rudy claimed to have written.

They are pretty good at finding lost dogs. Evidence, not so much.

 

[RoseMontague]

She claims to have got up 10:00 ish, went to the cottage, had shower, hairwash, hairdry, put on "new clothes", claimed to be going to Gubbio, strolled back, told Raf after breakfast her "concerns". Rang Mez. Rang Filomena, circa 12:07, claimed to be at cottage, but actually phone records showed she was at Raf's. Filomena urged Amanda to ring Mez. Amanda omitted to inform Filomena she already had. Rang Filomena again 12:34- ish. Filomena urged her to call the police. Postal police turned up they say 12:35, but let's give slack, and say 12:45. Raf calls his sister circa 12:47. She says, call the police. Amanda rings Mum, Edda, 12:57. Raf rings police at last between 12:47- 12:58. Door kicked down by Filomena's sister's boyfriend, Luca as soon as they arrive, 13:05. Carabinieri turn up circa 13:26, "within half an hour", as promised. Postal police report washing machine just finishing cycle and the pair had a mop, on their arrival.

NB: this is from memory, so do check times for yourself.

Nope. No mop, no warm washing machine. Amanda calls Meredith's other phone (she had 2 cell phones) after her first try.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Lindy, Michael, and Azaria Chamberlain

As for Lindy Chamberlain, as that seems to be a favourite analogy. Given Chamberlain, an extreme 7th Day Adventist (cf the guy leading the Waco cult, David Somebody) gave her daughter the biblical name of a character to be slaughtered in sacrifice to God*, and she claimed her daughter was carried off by a dingo, the police were right to be suspicious IMV.

*Sacrifice was a very ancient Hebrew custom. Some claim early Hebrew manuscripts (in the then language of Aramaic) revealed Abraham actually did slaughter Isaac. After which, God was happy with a ram instead.

Vixen,

The name Azaria means helped by God or blessed of God. Michael Chamberlain was a minister in the Seventh Day Adventist church and later wrote a doctoral thesis at the University of Newcastle about one aspect of the church. The link between this church and David Koresh is pretty tenuous; according to Wikipedia "In 1982, he [Koresh] moved to Waco, Texas, where he joined the Branch Davidians, a religious group originating from a schism in 1955 from the Shepherd's Rod, themselves disfellowshipped members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1929."

 

[acbytesla]

Nope. No mop, no warm washing machine. Amanda calls Meredith's other phone (she had 2 cell phones) after her first try.

The real question is, will Vixen actually reexamine her position with all the corrected information or just move on and start spouting other discredited guilter points? I'm betting on the latter.

 

[RoseMontague]

The real question is, will Vixen actually reexamine her position with all the corrected information or just move on and start spouting other discredited guilter points. I'm betting on the latter.

Migi asked both cops in court about the washing machine. They didn't even check it. From what I remember, the cops didn't check the washing machine until a couple of days had passed.

 

[anglolawyer]

Migi asked both cops in court about the washing machine. They didn't even check it. From what I remember, the cops didn't check the washing machine until a couple of days had passed.

In that case it could have been warm, she can't prove it wasn't so she's guilty.

 

[Numbers]

But when did framing begin if at all. No one here believes the interrogation was properly done and moist everyone thinks she should have been afforded an attorney well before she made her statement.

Did they frame? If yes, when did it start?

My problem with your questions are: 1. How are you defining "frame" - does your definition require that the police believe that the persons being framed are innocent; 2. I don't have enough information to make reasonable statements about what the police believed.

I can point to Giobbi's testimony in particular. He identified Amanda as suspect because of her weak alibi, she was close to Meredith, had a key, and had the perceived behavior of moving her hips when putting on shoe covers. I can assume that he, in good faith, believed her to be guilty because of these indications. Therefore, since by definition one cannot frame a person one believes to be guilty, there was no framing.

On the other hand, I can assume that Giobbi has testified as stated above to cover-up the fact that Amanda was a suspect of convenience for the police, and a suspect of obsession for Mignini. Guilt was not relevant to their thinking, and this may be called "framing".

Either way, I must make assumptions (or inferences) about the thinking of others, persons about whom I have, lMO, insufficient information to make assumptions in confidence.

ETA: To reiterate, there was significant official misconduct in this case, and it began as early as the Nov. 5, 2007 interrogation. Planning for the interrogation, if done, could also be considered planning for misconduct and perhaps would also be misconduct. Such planning, in the US, might fall under the legal definition of conspiracy.

 

[Vixen]

Those bank records were recently posted here for you, and, in light of what they actually reveal, what you say is - surprise - speculative nonsense.

However, to indulge your line of "thought" for a moment, let's further speculate that Ms. Knox accompanied her voluminous drug intake with some magic serum that later foiled ILE blood and urine tests. Assuming there was a long background to this behavior, how do you suppose she managed to stay on the dean's list at a competitive school like the University of Washington? Where are the sources from Ms. Knox's peers to corroborate such an intake of drugs? Meanwhile, her grades - and subsequent graduation and fledgling career as a junior reporter - are unambiguous.

Citation, please, the pair were drug tested immediately after the murder, or please provide earliest date this was done.

Raf by his own account was "an extensive drug user", who had dabbled in hash, cocaine and acid, and had grappled with mental illness (depression).

 

[Vixen]

She had 4000 dollars or more. She was withdrawing 250 Euro and once 500.

Please provide the proof on the calls both that they were made and that he was her drug dealer.

I thought she was buying from Rudi according to your theory.

What drugs was she buying and did she test positive?

Anyone feel free as the V won't answer in an acceptable fashion.

I can quote you a newspaper article as far back as 2007/2008 re the drugdealer phone calls. However, posters here claim the TIMES (Richard Owen) is not an acceptable source.

It's interesting, the same story popped up again last year, naming the drugdealer as Federico Martini (Mattini?), a very nasty character indeed.

The €4K was supposed to last four months or more.

 

[Vixen]

You do seem to be absolutely at ease with constructing hypotheticals from a standpoint of apparent abject ignorance. Coming from a self-proclaimed MENSA member, this is concerning.

David Koresh promoted principals and behaviors having nothing to do with the tenets of 7th Day Adventists. The preposterous connection you make between Koresh in Texas and the circumstances of Lindy Chamberlain - which transpired more than a decade earlier - in Australia indicates a highly imprecise and problematic mode of reasoning and connection-making.

Consider putting down your rhetorical shotgun and pause for a moment to meditate on the virtues of marksmanship.

David Koresh's Waco cult was a breakaway division of the 7th Day Adventists. Branch Davidians.

 

[Kauffer]

I can quote you a newspaper article as far back as 2007/2008 re the drugdealer phone calls. However, posters here claim the TIMES (Richard Owen) is not an acceptable source.

It's interesting, the same story popped up again last year, naming the drugdealer as Federico Martini (Mattini?), a very nasty character indeed.

The €4K was supposed to last four months or more.

Cite from the evidence! What on earth is your problem? You have access to the phone records! Make a case if there's one to make. Just stop making vacuous evidence less assertions and admit your error when you are shown to be wrong.

Here again - we now have you saying that she has a thousand dollars a month to spend on herself; previously you stated that she was low on funds.

Disingenuous posting.

But actually, I'm in on the Owen report about the drug dealer on this occasion, because it might shed some light on the source of these allegations - let's see it, please.

 

[Grinder]

My problem with your questions are: 1. How are you defining "frame" - does your definition require that the police believe that the persons being framed are innocent;

Yes. I gave the commonly held definition above. They must be innocent to be framed.

 

[Vixen]

The "to make" indicates willful. But if you think an addition is necessary

To purposely make a person appear as the perpetrator of a crime that he/she did not commit.

Next, we need to understand why Amanda and Raf were framed, and how.

 

[acbytesla]

I can quote you a newspaper article as far back as 2007/2008 re the drugdealer phone calls. However, posters here claim the TIMES (Richard Owen) is not an acceptable source.

It's interesting, the same story popped up again last year, naming the drugdealer as Federico Martini (Mattini?), a very nasty character indeed.

The €4K was supposed to last four months or more.

That's NOT a credible source. Not when there are MOUNTAINS of actual case testimony and evidence. Seriously Vixen, can you imagine a court accepting a newspaper article as evidence in a criminal trial?

 

[Grinder]

The €4K was supposed to last four months or more.

It was 4 grand real money but she had it and didn't need to steal from poor Meredith. Pretty stupid idea that she would start stealing from roommates mid term.

Many people blow money at the beginning of a trip and scrimp at the end.

IIRC she had reserves at home and the PGP infer her family had big bucks.

The drug bs is bs. No mention in any court docs.

 

[Grinder]

Next, we need to understand why Amanda and Raf were framed, and how.

Weak retention or reading skills? I've made it clear I believe in incompetence and bizarre thinking not framing.

 

[Vixen]

p

Vixen,

The name Azaria means helped by God or blessed of God. Michael Chamberlain was a minister in the Seventh Day Adventist church and later wrote a doctoral thesis at the University of Newcastle about one aspect of the church. The link between this church and David Koresh is pretty tenuous; according to Wikipedia "In 1982, he [Koresh] moved to Waco, Texas, where he joined the Branch Davidians, a religious group originating from a schism in 1955 from the Shepherd's Rod, themselves disfellowshipped members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1929."

I read Lindy Chamberlain's book in her own words, and that was the police view.

Personally, I think they got "Azaria" mixed up with Azalia (_sp?).

In any case, when a mountaineer fell to his death at the spot near Ayers Rock, they found the baby's matinee jacket near a dingo lair, at the location they found the body. This was 2012, and Lindy was pardoned.

The baby's body was never found.

 

[Vixen]

The real question is, will Vixen actually reexamine her position with all the corrected information or just move on and start spouting other discredited guilter points? I'm betting on the latter.

Name calling is very childish. Do posters here, when at work and the boss wants a report that's due, do they respond, "P!ss off, hater!"

 

[Vixen]

p

I read Lindy Chamberlain's book in her own words, and that was the police view.

Personally, I think they got "Azaria" mixed up with Azalia (_sp?).

In any case, when a mountaineer fell to his death at the spot near Ayers Rock, they found the baby's matinee jacket near a dingo lair, at the location they found the body. This was 2012, and Lindy was pardoned.

The baby's body was never found.

Erratum: soz I've always been hopeless at names:

Azazel Leviticus 16,10 ESV:

but the goat on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive before the LORD to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel.

 

[js202]

Citation, please, the pair were drug tested immediately after the murder, or please provide earliest date this was done.

Raf by his own account was "an extensive drug user", who had dabbled in hash, cocaine and acid, and had grappled with mental illness (depression).

It is you who should be providing the citations to your baseless, scattershot accusations. The nonsense you write is easily disproven, and your thinking is biased and lazy at best.