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Will Scotland get any more than what is currently on the table

Will Scotland get any more than what is currently on the table ?



Maybe an extra portion of haggis and a small side of Bubble and Squeak,
 
MikeG said:
part of the elephant trap that the Tories could dig for the SNP.
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Sturgeon is undoubtedly fully wise to this, she is definitely no economic dummy. She knows where the oil price has been the last five months too and that numbers more than twice as high, essentially forever, were baked into the independence document fiscal projections. I don't think she is backed into a corner and I would expect her to stall significantly on the fiscal autonomy.

Could be a situation of the vowers wanting to go faster than the vowees. Which would be interesting.
 
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fuelair said:
Clapshot is per: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_and_squeak the equivalent in Scotland..............
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In a general sense, but your source lists various things that aren't the same, though slightly similar. I give their various wiki definitions below.
Rumbledethumps is a traditional dish from the Scottish Borders. The main ingredients are potato, cabbage and onion.
Clapshot is a traditional Scottish dish that originated in Orkney and may be served with haggis, oatcakes, mince, sausages or cold meat. It is created by the combined mashing of swede turnips and potatoes ("neeps and tatties") with the addition of chives, butter or dripping, salt and pepper; some versions include onions.
Stovies is a Scottish dish based on potatoes. Recipes and ingredients vary widely, but the dish always contains potatoes with, variously, onions, carrots, other vegetables, roast beef, corned beef, minced beef or other meat.
Bubble and squeak is a traditional English dish made with the shallow-fried leftover vegetables from a roast dinner. The main ingredients are potato and Brussels sprouts, but carrots, peas, cabbages, or any other leftover vegetables can be added.
 
funk de fino said:
how does the Severn bridge tolls help impact austerity? Or the M6 toll road?
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Because both of these can be viewed as a form of indirect taxation on consumption.

These projects can essentially be treated as a modified form of PFI, where the repayments to the contractor are made not directly by the government, but by the public (through their tolls paid to use the bridge or toll road). If these tolls were to, say, be abolished, the government would either have to come up with equivalent amount of money to pay to the contractors, or it would have to take these projects back into public ownership by buying the assets.

So in a very real sense, the payment of these tolls can be seen as a reduction in the burden of public spending, and thus an anti-austerity measure.
 
Nessie said:
Indeed.



The starting pay has been cut. The lack of any pay increase at all plus the increase in pension contributions amounts to a cut. I may have been clumsy in the way I phrased my point, but it stands that the Scottish police have not had to cough up as much as the rest of the UK towards austerity.
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There has been major change in the Scottish Police system from many forces traditionally based on the regions to one police force which has in fact meant savings due to economies of scale like 1 senior officer rather than the 10 from before, 1 single IT system and so on. The SNP like restructuring and have been doing rather a lot of it over their term in office. However, this was expected to achieve 1.1 billion savings by 2026 but the planning of it has not been well executed and delivery is not well planned according to audit Scotland. But it is early days according to the executive
 
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LondonJohn said:
Because both of these can be viewed as a form of indirect taxation on consumption.

These projects can essentially be treated as a modified form of PFI, where the repayments to the contractor are made not directly by the government, but by the public (through their tolls paid to use the bridge or toll road). If these tolls were to, say, be abolished, the government would either have to come up with equivalent amount of money to pay to the contractors, or it would have to take these projects back into public ownership by buying the assets.

So in a very real sense, the payment of these tolls can be seen as a reduction in the burden of public spending, and thus an anti-austerity measure.
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In the case of the Severn bridges, it'll simply be a matter of waiting a few years though it seems that Severn River Crossing plc have been successful in spinning this out longer and longer. They were due to revert to public ownership in 2017 but it may be 2018 or later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severn_Bridge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Severn_Crossing

It has been mooted that the tolls will be retained to pay for "unspecified works". Severn River Crossing plc are responsible for some of the upkeep of the bridges but some works are excluded (like a recent £8m resurfacing). IMO yet another example of the government negotiating a poor contract with generous exclusions.
 
Francesca R said:
I think that would be an indy-ref triggering circumstance yes. Mostly because the voters in Scotland would think so. Almost any other reason would IMO cause at least a slight SNP backlash and another no vote.

But I really don't expect the EU referendum to go close to "out".
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Nor do I, so what I'm about to say is probably a moot point, but here goes anyway - if the UK votes to leave the EU, the first country in line for a referendum should be Northern Ireland, not Scotland. Firsly because it would fulfill the conditions agreed to in the Good Friday Agreement for the Secretary of State to call a border poll, and also because NI - unlike Scotland - would not have to reapply to join the EU if we left the UK. We could simply unite with an already existing EU member state.
 
Strawberry said:
Nor do I, so what I'm about to say is probably a moot point, but here goes anyway - if the UK votes to leave the EU, the first country in line for a referendum should be Northern Ireland, not Scotland. Firsly because it would fulfill the conditions agreed to in the Good Friday Agreement for the Secretary of State to call a border poll, and also because NI - unlike Scotland - would not have to reapply to join the EU if we left the UK. We could simply unite with an already existing EU member state.
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...and the Unionists would get their guns out..again..
 
Rum said:
...and the Unionists would get their guns out..again..
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Tough. That will just have to be dealt with if it happens, because you can't expect the democratic will of the electorate to be held to ransom by terrorism.
 
Strawberry said:
Tough. That will just have to be dealt with if it happens, because you can't expect the democratic will of the electorate to be held to ransom by terrorism.
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And then the I.R.A. will get out theirs, and the another chapter in "The Troubles" will begin.

Irony is that although few politicans in The Republic will say so,fact is that The Republic is not exactly overjoyed at the thought merging with Ulster. Let the UK have that headache...
 
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dudalb said:
And then the I.R.A. will get out theirs, and the another chapter in "The Troubles" will begin.

Irony is that although few politicans in The Republic will say so,fact is that The Republic is not exactly overjoyed at the thought merging with Ulster. Let the UK have that headache...
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The only way that would happen is if Britain failed to control the extremists on the Unionist side. That's what always happens in Ireland, loyalist violence towards Catholics is met with no response, or even approval, from the state, and the IRA step into the vacuum. On the rare occassions when Britain has actually grown a pair and stood up to loyalist violence, eg Mo Mowlam facing them down over Drumcree, the IRA's guns stay silent

Its not rocket science here, enforce the rule of law against terrorists on one side, or you'll end up with a terrorist response from the other side. And at this stage in history that means sticking to the GFA and calling a border poll whenever conditions demand it. The Republic has already signed up to the principle of consent, so whether or not a border poll results in a united Ireland is entirely up to the electorate in NI.
 
Francesca R said:
PS remember that the Tories have "everything to gain" in Scotland. It makes zero sense to write off somewhere with no electoral downside and only upside. They have a huge interest in the SNP ultimately hanging themselves.
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I agree, though I suspect that Sturgeon is too canny for that to happen. I fully expect DC to give Scotland ample rope and leave them to get on with sorting out Devo Max while also tabling bills to restrict commons votes on 'English' matters by devolved nations, so basically everyone gets Devo Max or some form of it.

If they manage to wipe off 76 votes (56SNP + 20others) from Westminster votes on 'English' matters then DC has about a 100 seat super majority to play with.

Without actually gaining independence I don't see what more Scotland can get. Their recent indyref No vote got them a pile of yet to be finalised powers and their large SNP showing will be shouting loudly to get everything they were promised.
 
Francesca R said:
Me too, though it would IMO give her the headache of having to engineer some policy differences relative to manifesto.
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Yes but given she has still to write the manifesto for the election next year in Scotland this won't pose too many difficulties.
 
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