UK - Election 2015

[ddt]

If you divide the number of national votes for each party by the number of MPs elected, you find that the Green MP received over 44 votes for each vote received by an SNP MP, and the UKIP MP received over 149 votes for same.

The ratios go like this:

001.00 SNP
001.32 Conservative
001.55 Labour
011.55 Lib Dem
044.45 Green
149.21 UKIP

I've not bothered to calculate the ratios for the Irish or Welsh Parties - but I expect they would be near the top of the list.

To put it in terms of total votes, UKIP received 2.66 votes for every one SNP vote - but SNP got 56 MPs whereas UKIP got 1.

This is what you wanted. You had a referendum to replace FPTP with AV, and massively rejected it, with around 80% IIRC.

 

[MikeG]

Every time Scotland's elected MPs are ignored by Westminster more Scots will turn on the union,that will have the effect of increasing support for independence at the next referendum-which we all know is coming,the SNP are not even denying that. This could turn out to the SNP good,after all if our elected MPs are being ignored by the union,what's the point of staying in the union.

This was always a win,win for us. Either we would play as a party a big role in UK wide politics, or we would play NO role which would show Westminsters complete contempt for the Scottish voters.

Of course, the other way to read the situation is to say that despite voting in huge numbers against their instincts for a nationalist party, nothing changed as a result. Scotland's voice was heard even less. So, the backlash against the SNP could be very harsh when all those Scots who expected that vote to make a difference come bumping up against reality. The SNP gains this election could be only slightly more dramatic than their losses at the next one.

 

[3point14]

This is what you wanted. You had a referendum to replace FPTP with AV, and massively rejected it, with around 80% IIRC.

Don't remind me. I firmy believe that one failed because we have a woefully uneducated and uninterested populace, politically speaking.

 

[ddt]

Oh by the way,you should check your arithmetic. You would see even if we here in Scotland had went labour then the Tories would still have won. I-and everyone I have spoke to up hear-no longer see the difference between a rich party in red,and a rich party in blue.

What's red about Labour except for Ed Milliband's tie?

Labour politicians basically said over and over that people were voting SNP because they were dumb. If that does not show utter contempt for the ordinary voter then what does.

To be fair, both Jim Murphy and Douglas Alexander had a gracious concession speech in which they squarely blamed themselves.

And how's all that going to work out now that the Tories have a majority and can tell the SNP to suck it? SNP were banking on being in a coalition, now they have nothing.

Should they have not contested the seats, then? They have 56 voices in Westminster to further their cause. That's all that can be expected of them.

 

[anglolawyer]

Of course, the other way to read the situation is to say that despite voting in huge numbers against their instincts for a nationalist party, nothing changed as a result. Scotland's voice was heard even less. So, the backlash against the SNP could be very harsh when all those Scots who expected that vote to make a difference come bumping up against reality. The SNP gains this election could be only slightly more dramatic than their losses at the next one.

A better way for the SNP to have crashed and burned would have been to actually get a piece of the action. Evidence? The LibDems.

Where's Rolfe. I bet she's lurking. Come on Rolfe. Let's have your 6 groats worth.

 

[MikeG]

Don't remind me. I firmy believe that one failed because we have a woefully uneducated and uninterested populace, politically speaking.

Whilst I was also disappointed with that result, there is just no way I could make the intellectual leap to "they didn't agree with me, therefore they are uneducated and uninterested".

 

[skeptichaggis]

Adenoid ed just quit along with calamity clegg and **** face garage. Maybe the can start a creepy boy band. Or a reality TV show-dumb,dumb,and racist neo-fascist dumber.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited breach of rule 10. Please do not attempt to bypass the autocensor

Quite right,I should not have used that term. My bad.

 

[The Don]

A better way for the SNP to have crashed and burned would have been to actually get a piece of the action. Evidence? The LibDems.

Maybe. I think the main problem for the LibDems was that they had to abandon so many of their principles to form a coalition with the Conservatives that they scared their own support away. Had they been in coalition with Labour under similar circumstances then maybe the blowback would have been less severe, or possibly non-existent.

SNP/Labour may not have been too damaging for the SNP (but maybe for Labour depending on what deal had to be made) whereas SNP/Conservative would have been IMO.

 

[3point14]

Whilst I was also disappointed with that result, there is just no way I could make the intellectual leap to "they didn't agree with me, therefore they are uneducated and uninterested".

That's not a conclusion I've drawn from the result but I conclusion I drew from conversations with colleagues, friends and randoms. I realise this is a self selecting sample, but I tend to hang out at the bottom end of society because I am neither posh nor rich. by far the majority of peopl I talked to simply didn't understand what they were voting for or agianst and the majority didn't cast a vote. I would feel very differently about both that referendum and this election if the result was the same and those around me understood what it was all about, but they don't.

to reiterate, my conclusions are not based on the result but on conversations I have had since the result.

 

[The Don]

Whilst I was also disappointed with that result, there is just no way I could make the intellectual leap to "they didn't agree with me, therefore they are uneducated and uninterested".

Again it comes down to why they voted against it.

If they voted against it because they have particular objections to AV then that's one thing (in my case I'm not happy about the way that party lists mean that only those who are loyal to the party leadership will get elected so we lose the local representative aspect of our MP) but voting against (or worse yet not even bothering to vote) because "it sounds hard" or because all change is bad is something entirely different.

 

[lonepinealex]

Maybe. I think the main problem for the LibDems was that they had to abandon so many of their principles to form a coalition with the Conservatives that they scared their own support away. Had they been in coalition with Labour under similar circumstances then maybe the blowback would have been less severe, or possibly non-existent.

SNP/Labour may not have been too damaging for the SNP (but maybe for Labour depending on what deal had to be made) whereas SNP/Conservative would have been IMO.

They didn't have to, they chose to. And then tried to sell it back to us as a good thing. It merely demonstrated that there's no point in them existing.

 

[Agatha]

Adenoid ed just quit along with calamity clegg and **** face garage. Maybe the can start a creepy boy band. Or a reality TV show-dumb,dumb,and racist neo-fascist dumber.

Or the worst series of Top Gear ever made.

 

[Rum]

England in five years time? Scotland set adrift, out of the EU. A lonely little island off the north west coast of Europe?

 

[MikeG]

........Where's Rolfe. I bet she's lurking. Come on Rolfe. Let's have your 6 groats worth.

Yeah, that's just what we need.........

 

[ceptimus]

Whilst I was also disappointed with that result, there is just no way I could make the intellectual leap to "they didn't agree with me, therefore they are uneducated and uninterested".

The problem was that the Tories and Labour were urging everyone to vote for FPTP, the Lib Dems were in favour of AV but they were very unpopular having sided with the Tories and gone back on their manifesto pledges.

Even if Labour had urged people to vote for AV, I still think the population would have voted for the staus quo - I agree that there are a great number of stupid people who are easily swayed by the (fraudulent) "New system would be very difficult and too complicated for you to understand" argument.

And it's not an intellectual leap to consider how smart the average voter is - and then remember that about half of the voters are even dumber than that.

 

[skeptichaggis]

Of course, the other way to read the situation is to say that despite voting in huge numbers against their instincts for a nationalist party, nothing changed as a result. Scotland's voice was heard even less. So, the backlash against the SNP could be very harsh when all those Scots who expected that vote to make a difference come bumping up against reality. The SNP gains this election could be only slightly more dramatic than their losses at the next one.

That takes no notice of how much the torys are hated in Scotland,they could give everyone in Scotland a free car and we would still blame them for not having free cars. We learn to hate the torys young,we see how the despise the poor in scotland-and elsewhere-from a young age.

I actually was worried that a labour/SNP coalition would backfire on SNP support. The best way to increase support is a rich Tory toff government ignoring the Scottish people. Look at the Tory situation in Scotland,that suggests that labour are done,for decades at least,in Scotland. The Scottish folk will NEVER forgive or forget that labour worked with the torys. Labour can not come back from that.

 

[MikeG]

They didn't have to, they chose to. And then tried to sell it back to us as a good thing. It merely demonstrated that there's no point in them existing.

So, if they had gone into coalition with Labour at any stage, the same thing would have resulted?

Their great reason for existing, in my view, was to eventually replace Labour. To have a clash of liberalism Vs conservatism would have been much better for the country, in my view, than the puerile clash of lower class vs middle class, worker vs employer, trade unions vs business that we are so often treated to.

 

[skeptichaggis]

A better way for the SNP to have crashed and burned would have been to actually get a piece of the action. Evidence? The LibDems.

Where's Rolfe. I bet she's lurking. Come on Rolfe. Let's have your 6 groats worth.

The lib dems worked with the Tories. The SNP would never be that stupid.

 

[MikeG]

......... We learn to hate the torys young,we see how the despise the poor in scotland-and elsewhere-from a young age.........

They despise the poor, hey? You learn this. Obviously, as a sceptic, you wouldn't just fall into the trap of mindlessly acquiring the same gross generalisations as your elders, would you?

 

[Wudang]

Maybe. I think the main problem for the LibDems was that they had to abandon so many of their principles to form a coalition with the Conservatives that they scared their own support away.

I wonder how many people who voted LibDem last time realized how many key LDs were "Orange Bookers" - economic liberals, rather than social liberals.