UK - Election 2015

[Craig B]

Personally, I think that post-election, there should be a referendum in Greater London to create an independent city state. After all, Greater London has a population of over 8 million (way more than Scotland), 74 Westminster constituencies, and over 20% of the current UK's entire economic output. I think that Greater London would be incredibly successful as an independent city state.

Oh wait. That would be a stupid and reductive idea wouldn't it......

If it would be a stupid and reductive idea, don't do it. Such an idea has nothing to do with how the country of Scotland is governed. So it is quite irrelevant. London is not in a Union with England and Wales as a constituent part of the UK.

Supporters of Devo Max would do well to avoid your example. We are told by them that Scotland is a country, which it is, and that being in the Union is the best way for that country to be governed. But it is a country, not a city, or an English region.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I say let Scotland have Independence but enforce strict border controls, they will after all be non EU country. Passports please.

 

[Damien Evans]

I say let Scotland have Independence but enforce strict border controls, they will after all be non EU country. Passports please.

Evidence?

 

[Andy_Ross]

How can they be?

 

[MikeG]

We do have one or two long threads on Scottish independence on the forum, and these points have been dissected ad infinitum (ad absurdum, actually). Whilst the SNP is a factor in this election, obviously, actual Scottish independence isn't. Couldn't we please keep that discussion for Rolfe's Blog the other thread?

 

[Craig B]

We do have one or two long threads on Scottish independence on the forum, and these points have been dissected ad infinitum (ad absurdum, actually). Whilst the SNP is a factor in this election, obviously, actual Scottish independence isn't. Couldn't we please keep that discussion for Rolfe's Blog the other thread?

Yes, I agree - yet again. Independence for Scotland will not be a direct result of this election, whatever the outcome. It may or may not be an indirect result, but nothing can reasonably be predicted about that in advance of the events.

 

[Nessie]

Personally, I think that post-election, there should be a referendum in Greater London to create an independent city state. After all, Greater London has a population of over 8 million (way more than Scotland), 74 Westminster constituencies, and over 20% of the current UK's entire economic output. I think that Greater London would be incredibly successful as an independent city state.

Oh wait. That would be a stupid and reductive idea wouldn't it......

There is an argument for hiving off London from the rest of England when it comes to giving the regions more powers. Or split England so each region is similarly sized. Yorkshire has a similar population to Scotland and I am sure it would happily manage itself more.

 

[Nessie]

We do have one or two long threads on Scottish independence on the forum, and these points have been dissected ad infinitum (ad absurdum, actually). Whilst the SNP is a factor in this election, obviously, actual Scottish independence isn't. Couldn't we please keep that discussion for Rolfe's Blog the other thread?

For Scotland I read region and the hoped for increase in regional powers that I am sure the Welsh and English are happy about as well.

The SNP have come out for proportional representation

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...inster-nicola-sturgeon-confirms-10223302.html

I am delighted to see that and regional powers going towards ending central control by one party.

 

[MikeG]

For Scotland I read region and the hoped for increase in regional powers that I am sure the Welsh and English are happy about as well...........

Other than from the Labour party a decade ago, I have never ever heard anyone ever suggest that what we need now is another layer of politicking and bureaucracy. Regional devolution is a ridiculous idea, and not on anyone's agenda. There is an actual election happening ATM, with actual issues, and I really can't be bothered wasting energy discussing such a silly hypothetical. Why a goodly percentage of one region of this island thinks it a good idea will forever remain an absolute mystery to me, but the rest of us appear to have the sense to repudiate the notion that we'd benefit from an extra tier of government, now or ever.

 

[Craig B]

Other than from the Labour party a decade ago, I have never ever heard anyone ever suggest that what we need now is another layer of politicking and bureaucracy. Regional devolution is a ridiculous idea, and not on anyone's agenda. There is an actual election happening ATM, with actual issues, and I really can't be bothered wasting energy discussing such a silly hypothetical. Why a goodly percentage of one region of this island thinks it a good idea will forever remain an absolute mystery to me, but the rest of us appear to have the sense to repudiate the notion that we'd benefit from an extra tier of government, now or ever.

What "region of this island" wants "hypothetical" "regional devolution"?

 

[MikeG]

What "region of this island" wants "hypothetical" "regional devolution"?

None. That's the point.

 

[Craig B]

None. That's the point.

You seemed to be saying that such a desire did exist, at least substantially.

Why a goodly percentage of one region of this island thinks it a good idea will forever remain an absolute mystery to me

Where is that region?

 

[anglolawyer]

You certainly have the Sun on your side when it comes to Scottish interests. May the Force be with you!

That is, the Scottish edition of the Sun.

The latest, and last, round of Ashcroft polls is also interesting. Jim Murphy might retain his seat due to traditional Tory voters going over to Labour. The Labour voters in Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale & Tweeddale, don't return the favour.

Apparently, this results from a love affair between Murdoch and the SNP. Murdoch sees it as a way of damaging Labour (source: Private Eye)

 

[Craig B]

Apparently, this results from a love affair between Murdoch and the SNP. Murdoch sees it as a way of damaging Labour (source: Private Eye)

At other times he has found Labout more congenial.

It's the Sun wot's switched sides to back Blair. Murdoch turns out the lights on tabloid's support for the Tories.
Roy Greenslade Tuesday 18 March 1997
The Sun tells its readers today to vote Labour, switching sides after more than 20 years of unswerving support for the Tory party.
In a front page article headlined 'The Sun Backs Blair', the paper, which has a daily readership of more than 10 million, says Tony Blair should be the next prime minister.

 

[MikeG]

You seemed to be saying that such a desire did exist, at least substantially. Where is that region?

Erm.........Scotland. I would have thought that was obvious.

 

[Puppycow]

Came across this BBC article about the polls:

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2015-32572745

According to their numbers UKIP is 3rd after Cons and Labour and ahead of the Lib Dems. Greens are 5th and SNP doesn't even rate a mention, being lumped in with the "others".

Are these poll numbers accurate?

This seems to be different from what I read elsewhere.

 

[MikeG]

......Are these poll numbers accurate?......

We'll know in 3 days time. They are the only polls I have followed, being compiled as a "poll of polls".

 

[ddt]

Came across this BBC article about the polls:

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2015-32572745

According to their numbers UKIP is 3rd after Cons and Labour and ahead of the Lib Dems. Greens are 5th and SNP doesn't even rate a mention, being lumped in with the "others".

Are these poll numbers accurate?

This seems to be different from what I read elsewhere.

Those numbers could be true and still the UKIP could get only a handful of seats. When those 14% are evenly spread over England, they don't amount to much. The LibDems, on the other hand, have their traditional strongholds where they outperform Tories and Labour.

The SNP is lumped in with those "others", but they're the biggest in that, at about 4-5% nationally and they only stand in 9% of the constituencies. Do the math and you see that they're the biggest there, even when evenly spread.

 

[Agatha]

I'm getting the supplies* in to stay up most or all of the night on Thursday - I don't think anyone has any certainty of how this election will turn out. Other than we will probably be in some sort of coalition government, it's all to play for.

*wine, crisps, chocolate....

 

[Craig B]

Erm.........Scotland. I would have thought that was obvious.

When you are discussing another "regional" level of government in contexts where Yorkshire and London have been mentioned, then you are mistaken. Scotland is not such a "region". Not only do separatists say that, the leaders of all the Unionist parties say it too. They did NOT tell the Scots: your country is a "region". They said it is a country, and that its interests as such can best be served by remaining within the United Kingdom.

Even if you don't agree with these facts, you can't speak of Scotland as "one region", and even if you do that, you can't call its devolution "hypothetical" since the devolved Parliament was established by the Scotland Act 1998.

You may not like any of this, but that is no excuse for writing nonsense about it.