Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

That was only for that one time period, they asked for it to be tested at the end of the Massei Trial and then again in their appeals.

Courts are strict. You must put in your request for disclosure in time for the trial. It's no good doing it after the verdict!

It doesn't work like that. Raf's attorney is either exceptionally negligent or exceedingly cunning.

 

[acbytesla]

You need only fear the police if you are guilty (maybe in USA this is different, from what we read in the papers).

You should really think about this before you post such nonsense. You should also consider that at the beginning of this farce, neither Amanda or Raffaele were the least bit afraid of the police. They did everything they could to help the police. This despite warnings from relatives and friends reading the nonsense press. They were not afraid because they knew they were innocent. They didn't run, they didn't lawyer up. Hell, they didn't even go to Gubbio as was there plan the next day. Everything they really did were the actions of people who didn't think for a second that they would be suspected.

It was only AFTER they were wrongfully put in jail and had the police that they trusted tell the world "case closed" that theyou grew to fear and distrust the police. Are you honestly suggesting that you would not fear and distrust the police if you had been in Raffaele's position? In solitary confinement for weeks for something he didn't do?
You can't be this obtuse?

 

[Sergei Walankov]

You need only fear the police if you are guilty

Jesus.

 

[js202]

Jesus.

Yes. Strictly non-Mensa class thinking, there. Giving the benefit of the doubt, a bad joke.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

an unserious argument

You need only fear the police if you are guilty (maybe in USA this is different, from what we read in the papers).

Vixen,

Sabrina Misseri might say differently, and so might Federico Aldrovandi, if he were still alive. Then there are the Birmingham Six, The Central Park Five, The Nofolk Four, and the West Memphis Three (or the Duke lacrosse three). Or Farah Jama and Lindy Chamberlain. Or...well my lunch break is almost over. Either you get the point, or you don't.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Unanswered questions

Courts are strict. You must put in your request for disclosure in time for the trial. It's no good doing it after the verdict!

It doesn't work like that. Raf's attorney is either exceptionally negligent or exceedingly cunning.

Vixen,

I thought it was one long trial. More importantly, you are still running away from the questions you have been repeatedly asked. I'll do my best to summarize. Wouldn't a putative semen stain in a sexually tinged crime be among the first things tested? Why should it even matter what Raffaele and his attorneys say; shouldn't it have been tested regardless? Why should Raffaele and his lawyers have any faith (confidence, trust, whatever) in the competence and integrity of the forensic police, based on their work with respect to the shoe print and the bra clasp? Indeed, why should anyone? Thanks in advance.

 

[Vixen]

You should really think about this before you post such nonsense. You should also consider that at the beginning of this farce, neither Amanda or Raffaele were the least bit afraid of the police. They did everything they could to help the police. This despite warnings from relatives and friends reading the nonsense press. They were not afraid because they knew they were innocent. They didn't run, they didn't lawyer up. Hell, they didn't even go to Gubbio as was there plan the next day. Everything they really did were the actions of people who didn't think for a second that they would be suspected.

It was only AFTER they were wrongfully put in jail and had the police that they trusted tell the world "case closed" that the DISTRUST the police. Are you honestly suggesting that you would not fear and distrust the police if you had been in Raffaele's position. In solitary confinement for weeks for something he didn't do? You can't be this obtuse?

Oh, come on. When in the presence of the police you respect them. Only a fool or a sociopath openly disrespects them.

Before expressing orotund notions to bandwidth, consider prosecutors in the USA.

Sam Mandez (aged 14 at time of crime) convicted of felony/murder and sentenced to life without parole on the strength of one FOUR YEAR OLD fingerprint and tenuous link of a book of matches.

The two guys recently released after serving 30 years in jail. One, because the cops didn't bother doing any forensics on the gun casing of the gun he had supposedly used to shoot someone dead. The other was incarcerated on the sole basis he was covered in mud, the same night his pal was bumped off.

Please clean up your own back yard before criticising the Italian police.

There is a M O U N T A I N O F E V I D E N C E against Raf and Amanda. I know it has become a cliche, but cliches are just that, because they hold an inherent truth.

 

[acbytesla]

Courts are strict. You must put in your request for disclosure in time for the trial. It's no good doing it after the verdict!

It doesn't work like that. Raf's attorney is either exceptionally negligent or exceedingly cunning.

Dumb and obtuse observation. You would think that the police would want to test something that looks like a semen stain. That the defense shouldn't have to ask for this. You would also think that the prosecution wouldn't fight that.

This case turns jurisprudence on its head. You have the defense tring to get a complete examination of the evidence and the people who should be most interested in justice doing everything to prevent that. Why do think that is Vixen?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

the Aldrovandi case

Oh, come on. When in the presence of the police you respect them. Only a fool or a sociopath openly disrespects them.

I agree. Probably Federico Aldrovandi got a little mouthy, and look what happened to him. His mother asked for justice, and she got hit with about ten suits.

 

[acbytesla]

Oh, come on. When in the presence of the police you respect them. Only a fool or a sociopath openly disrespects them.

What the hell are you talking about? This has nothing to do with respect, This has to do with as you said " only the guilty need fear the police" Never mind the incredible naivete of this statement, but you are the one that said it. Amanda could have gotten on a plane the next day for Seattle or take the train to her Grandmother's place in Germany. But she didnt. She didn't get a lawyer like Filomena did. She helped the cops. Rudy on the other hand typifies your remark. He flees the country...even though he had nowhere to go.

Before expressing orotund notions to bandwidth, consider prosecutors in the USA.

Sam Mandez (aged 14 at time of crime) convicted of felony/murder and sentenced to life without parole on the strength of one FOUR YEAR OLD fingerprint and tenuous link of a book of matches.

The two guys recently released after serving 30 years in jail. One, because the cops didn't bother doing any forensics on the gun casing of the gun he had supposedly used to shoot someone dead. The other was incarcerated on the sole basis he was covered in mud, the same night his pal was bumped off.

Please clean up your own back yard before criticising the Italian police.

We're not talking about cleaning up Perugia. Although the Italians might think about it.
You act as if many of us aren't aware of the many injustices that happen here. Many of are involved in other cases, including Ryan Ferguson, Debra Milke, Russian Faria and others.

This forum is talking about the nonsense case involving Amanda Knox. We'll start with that one.

 

[Planigale]

Oh, come on. When in the presence of the police you respect them. Only a fool or a sociopath openly disrespects them.

Before expressing orotund notions to bandwidth, consider prosecutors in the USA.

Sam Mandez (aged 14 at time of crime) convicted of felony/murder and sentenced to life without parole on the strength of one FOUR YEAR OLD fingerprint and tenuous link of a book of matches.

The two guys recently released after serving 30 years in jail. One, because the cops didn't bother doing any forensics on the gun casing of the gun he had supposedly used to shoot someone dead. The other was incarcerated on the sole basis he was covered in mud, the same night his pal was bumped off.

Please clean up your own back yard before criticising the Italian police.

There is a M O U N T A I N O F E V I D E N C E against Raf and Amanda. I know it has become a cliche, but cliches are just that, because they hold an inherent truth.

The UK has so many miscarriages of justice that a special extra-judicial review system had to be introduced.
http://www.ccrc.gov.uk/about-us/
The point being this is not unique to Italy. The error is to fail to accept miscarriages occur. The problems with the Italian legal system are widely recognised not least by Italians. http://www.economist.com/news/europ...rm-italy-pressingand-difficult-justice-denied

 

[Vixen]

That is like asking what difference it makes if the victim was stabbed or strangled.

The real reason is the defense don't want it labelled "cut with a knife", as it points to someone with a knife fetish and violent rape fantasies.

At least if we call it "torn" we can blame Rudy.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen,

I snipped out most of your comment, leaving the only thing that made a lick of sense. Do you read Italian? You might prefer reading Professor Vinci's presentation on the shoe prints in the original language, which you can find at IIP. He discusses Rinaldi's inadequate "analysis" of the partial shoe print that Rinaldi tried to attribute to a woman's shoe.

No I don't speak any Italian, (apart from Arrivaderci Roma!). However, Massei and his peers clearly decided Rinaldi's report was the one they preferred, after reviewing all of the evidence in front of them.

 

[Vixen]

This shard of glass shows that someone was in the murder room after being in the room with the broken window. Since the prosecution's contention is that the break-in was allegedly "staged" as the last act before leaving the scene, how does this become evidence against the 2 students?


... and the Hellmann court upheld them, supported by the Conti-Vecchiotti report which remains valid evidence. Why do you continue to appeal to the Massei and Nencini conclusions? All court decisions have been annulled, and those supporting your POV now have the same status as Hellmann.

In any case, have you actually viewed the video of the bra clasp collection by investigators? It's here, on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMaTI0SiuLw

If anything is "staged", then this is it. Judging by their antics, the team clearly know in advance what significance will be attached to this item. What's all this shining a flashlight on it and peering at it? Can they see DNA with their own eyes? Why do they put it back on the floor to photograph it, when it has already been moved from its original location?

Finally, they are handling it, right there, on video with dirty gloves. Contamination event, right there on camera. This is enough to make it completely worthless as evidence.


Firstly, an unidentified woman's shoeprint is not evidence against Amanda, specifically. Secondly, the Massei conclusions have been annulled. We will see whether the ISC considers the partial shoeprint of Guede's to be indicative of Amanda.


You only have to look at the bra clasp video referenced above. When the Italian police forensics team use methods that are manifestly improper, then yes, I will believe real forensic experts who point out that there is no genuine evidence.


So, not impartial then.


I have seen Rinaldi's blatant pseudo-science, trying to pin the bath-mat print to Raffaele. If that isn't corrupt, then I don't know what is.

Dr Rinaldi is an engineer. His examination of the bathmat footprint was based on intricate measurements and correlations, enough for him to assert with authority that it was Raf's footprint to a high level of statistical certainty.

We know, too, there was a clean up, as the lower part of the footprint is missing. Massei judged that Raf had a shower "with lots of water".

 

[acbytesla]

There is a M O U N T A I N O F E V I D E N C E against Raf and Amanda. I know it has become a cliche, but cliches are just that, because they hold an inherent truth.

No, there are only "claims"of a mountain of evidence. There is no proof of a staged break in. Not an iota of forensic evidence. There is no proof of motive. There is no evidence of Knox or Sollecito being involved in the crime. Only evidence that they had been at the cottage. Hardly surprising since Knox lived there and Raffaele had been there both before and after the murder.

The only DNA evidence against Knox or Sollecito is a joke. A cooking knife that no one would ever carry and a bra clasp that had been kicked around the crime scene for 46 days. And of course even Stefanoni couldn't reproduce her results. And tell us why Stefanoni won't even produce the electoral files? You'd think she was protecting her virginity. That it was something sacred.

 

[Vixen]

My recollection is that Luca testified that he saw Battistelli exit the cottage and motion with a cutting action across his throat indicating How Meredith died.

Luca's testimony should be available.

It doesn't follow that Batistelli was indicating, "How Meredith died".

Firstly, this is a very common gesture and standard amongst masons meaning, basically, "Help me!".

Luca could not rightly conclude this meant "How Meredith died".

In addition, Batistelli may or may not have lifted the quilt. No way would he make any such information available to all the potential suspects.

In any case, Mez died of asphixiation by inhalation of her own blood.

I suspect this story came about to cover Amanda's foreknowledge of her "friend's" grim fate.

 

[acbytesla]

The real reason is the defense don't want it labelled "cut with a knife", as it points to someone with a knife fetish and violent rape fantasies.

At least if we call it "torn" we can blame Rudy.

Bull!!
LOOK AT IT! With your own eyes. The evidence that it wasn't cut is clear to anyone who can see with half a brain. If it was cut, it would be frayed...now wouldn't it?

You wouldn't want the truth to get in the way of your assertions would you?

As for that other totally scurrilous and totally unproven remark...well, we'll just let that pass.

 

[Antony]

Dr Rinaldi is an engineer. His examination of the bathmat footprint was based on intricate measurements and correlations, enough for him to assert with authority that it was Raf's footprint to a high level of statistical certainty.

Rinaldi's analysis is a fraud. The very first measurement matches the width of Raff's big toe at the base with the bathmat print at the tip - and in order to get a "match", the measurement of the bathmat print includes an extraneous blob that is not even part of the toe. Get real.

We know, too, there was a clean up, as the lower part of the footprint is missing. Massei judged that Raf had a shower "with lots of water".

So, a clean-up in the bathroom necessarily implies a cleanup in the hall and the murder room, so as to remove Amanda and Raff's traces? Is that how your logic works?

 

[Antony]

No, there are only "claims"of a mountain of evidence. There is no proof of a break in. ...

...

I guess you mean "no proof of a staged break in" - which we know there isn't. The proof of an actual break in is pretty sound.

 

[acbytesla]

It doesn't follow that Batistelli was indicating, "How Meredith died".

Firstly, this is a very common gesture and standard amongst masons meaning, basically, "Help me!".

Luca could not rightly conclude this meant "How Meredith died".

In addition, Batistelli may or may not have lifted the quilt. No way would he make any such information available to all the potential suspects.

In any case, Mez died of asphixiation by inhalation of her own blood.

I suspect this story came about to cover Amanda's foreknowledge of her "friend's" grim fate.

Wow! The lengths you will go to support this nonsense. You have no idea...but hey, why not run it up the flagpole and just maybe someone will salute it. Lmao.