Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[lonepinealex]

Fools errand would be an errand run by a fool which would be calling members here fools which would be a personal attack.

Seriously more than just I have requested a time line from the PGP. Although not made here, it is still a timeline that was at least partially in response to poster(s) here.

I find it as worthwhile to show no timeline can be put together as discussing anything else about this case at this time.

Since this whole case has been about what nutters think, some being judges and prosecutors, why stop now?

I have no problem with refuting influential people, nutters or not - the police, prosecutors, various judiciary, reporters and the hate site founders and mods deserve everything they get.

Remotely debating the ramblings of random nobodies on another forum seems completely pointless to me, and I feel that some of the stuff posted in this thread since the acquittal falls into that category. Not all of it, but some of it.

 

[carbonjam72]

I have no problem with refuting influential people, nutters or not - the police, prosecutors, various judiciary, reporters and the hate site founders and mods deserve everything they get.

Remotely debating the ramblings of random nobodies on another forum seems completely pointless to me, and I feel that some of the stuff posted in this thread since the acquittal falls into that category. Not all of it, but some of it.

You sure you're not a fan of Monty Python?

How silly, versus prominent, does a poster have to be before they merit being called silly?

Is it the comment, or the poster, that merits response?

In mathematics, only the argument exists.

I feel there should be a 'ministry of silly comments' at 10 Downing street to sort things out. (wholly separate from the ministry of silly walks, and the ministry of not so serious but moderately silly crime).

 

[Bill Williams]

For my sins I had a look over at PMF. Seems they mostly comment on (and misrepresent) what people post here and at IA. Big deal. If we do the same thing here (and I would argue that a lot of what people are posting about what they're saying over there is misrepresentative) then the whole thing becomes an utterly ridiculous exercise in futility.

The only way to break the cycle is for one side to ignore the other.

Still, meh, it's none of my business what people choose to do with their time, it just makes the discussions here a bit pointless if it's just tit for tat sniping and laughing at some fools.

What would solve this, is for the two "sides" to mix. It is why I genuinely miss Machiavelli, Stilicho, Vibio, Briars, et al., here on ISF/JREF.

There IS no opportunity for give and take on the lone, remaining PMF site. And they will not come here.

So the substitute is for people to read "over there" and comment here. They read here and comment "over there". Certainly it's a tad comical when you think of it. Like Hermoine Granger telling Ron that she's not his owl, because Ron is not speaking to Harry.

I, for one, tried to engage TJMK some years ago (has it been that long! ) I misspelled "Homicide", expressed an opinion on the lack of evidence of a clean-up, and then I was banned.

I have it on the highest of authority, though, that the only people who pay any attention at all to the guilter sites (including now the fake-Wiki) are those of us who post as innocenters to IA/IIP and here. It's a very small universe. And whenever we innocenters comment about the nutters, we ourselves get painted a bit with the nutter brush.

 

[Grinder]

Some people here and at IA do the same thing that some people on PMF do, which is not to use the caveat some people when relating what the other side writes.

Individual views are not representative, and should be discussed as individual views, not "what the other side (collectively) thinks".

I repeat specifically name a couple examples of misrepresentations. I don't think those of us that bring over comments imply that they represent everyone at those sites. In most every case there are multiple posters agreeing with anything I bring over.

In the case of the timeline, which I believe started this back and forth, I posted it as the timeline from .net certainly I should have said a timeline. My apologies.

 

[anglolawyer]

Hope I haven't misunderstood what you're saying here, but there was some evidence worth noting.

IIRC, there was blood and hair on Filomena's window sill, which for some unexplained reason wasn't tested or was lost. So Rudy may well have left bio evidence during his break-in.

In addition, there was the impressions of a glass fragment in Rudy's bloody shoe print made in Meredith's wet blood. Rudy admits the footprints are his, and Hellman said it shows Rudy stepped on broken glass before he assaulted Meredith, or at least before he steeped in her blood (I probably have to re-read Hellman).

Plus, I forgot what Locard's principle is, and I refuse to google it, for political reasons. (Is that the one about Nazis and Barabara Streisand?).

yeah, Grinder forgets too and only mentions it to wind me up Locard suggested that a criminal will bring something to a crime scene and take something from it. If Filomena's room alone is considered to be the crime scene then I guess the piece of glass would count and maybe the untested, lost exhibit as to which, we shall never know. If it's the whole property then Locard works in spades.

 

[Grinder]

yeah, Grinder forgets too and only mentions it to wind me up Locard suggested that a criminal will bring something to a crime scene and take something from it. If Filomena's room alone is considered to be the crime scene then I guess the piece of glass would count and maybe the untested, lost exhibit as to which, we shall never know. If it's the whole property then Locard works in spades.

And if all of Perugia is the crime scene...

Locard would contend that the criminal would have left something just from the break-in even had he left immediately without entering the rest of the house.

Of course, had the PLE done their job, in this case, Locard would have been proven correct.

 

[The Big Dog]

I think that any analysis of how this all happened needs to remember where it happened and what sort of a place Italy is. Italy is the birthplace of both the Mafia and Fascism. Italy has a country within it, the Vatican.

Many in Italy seem to actually believe the teachings of the Catholic Church which to me is basically a cult. It wasn't that long ago that people here in the US actually believed in witches and the old dunking stool.

I think that Mignini et al. believed after a short time that Amanda was a witch of some sort and if the evidence wasn't quite right it was because she had altered it with her powers. The reason Mignini can continue to hold office is that he represents the will of the majority. The witnesses came forward to help get the witch. The police did what was needed to get the witch.

Did the Salem witch hunters get criticism or praise?

I don't know how to get into minds of people with the sort of beliefs these people seem to have. That adds to how the PGP, that aren't of that ilk ,can't see the flaws in the case if not outright innocence. Watching them bring up Koko now is mind-boggling

oh well

For what it is worth, the "witch hunters" in Salem were most definitely not Catholic

 

[anglolawyer]

And if all of Perugia is the crime scene...

Locard would contend that the criminal would have left something just from the break-in even had he left immediately without entering the rest of the house.

Of course, had the PLE done their job, in this case, Locard would have been proven correct.

All of Perugia can no way be the crime scene! In that case there could be no taking or leaving as you would be permanently in the crime scene.

 

[Bill Williams]

For what it is worth, the "witch hunters" in Salem were most definitely not Catholic

True. Yet the ugly side of Puritanism was not exactly female-friendly, and fully capable of the atrocities-in-the-name-of-religion that has infected a small sect within another of the world's great religions, the radical jihadists.

Getting into the minds of people who take religion to the lengths of the Salem bunch, ISIS, or Miginini in his conservative, medieval Catholicism is an impossible task.

It may not be 100% precise to accuse Mignini of pushing a Satanic-rite motive for this killing, but the term "Satanic Rite" would most certainly qualify as a headline to the story- esp. by the standards of the UK tabloids.

Machiavelli has reprinted here Mignini's early fleshing-out of that theory and, yes, it is not specifically a Satanic Rite. But it did include elements of rites associated with hallowe'en and All Saints day in his thinking.... point being....

..... by the time of his 2009 summation at the first trial, Mignini was psychologizing the crime. He'd dropped completely the religious slant. Nadeau said Mignini did that partly because Comodi threatened to resign if he didn't. Once again, Machiavelli upthread provided a Mignini-friendly version of that closing in 2009 which is pure psychologizing.

A lot of this case was tried in the wine-bars of Perugia in late evenings in 2008-2009 as the various actors rubbed shoulders with each other and argued their latest theory. It is true that "Satanic Rite", at the very least, became code for what Mignini was pushing. It also seems to be true that by the time late November 2009 rolled around, and he was to "bottle the egg", he summed up the case very differently than how he started.

The religious component of this - Puritan-excess, Catholic-inquisition - died on the vine. That boat don't float for hundreds of reasons, mainly because few people outside of Mignini's bizarre version of Catholicism think that way (even in Italy); let alone prosecute crimes with that as the subtext.

The poser now is not Mignini, it is Chieffi. By the time Chieffi wrote his Supreme Court motivations report, he wanted to return to the sex-game gone wrong. WTF!?

I know we're not supposed to talk about PMF.... we're the only ones who do!!!! But now they're talking about the crime being one of "ethnic cleansing". WTF!?

The problem with this case is that it became an ink-blot Rorschach Test - people push on to it their own issues.

 

[Grinder]

For what it is worth, the "witch hunters" in Salem were most definitely not Catholic

Craziness isn't limited to one group.

 

[Grinder]

All of Perugia can no way be the crime scene! In that case there could be no taking or leaving as you would be permanently in the crime scene.

Would Locard have predicted something left in Filomena's room by Rudi? I think he would have as he could have burgled and left without moving into the rest of the house. I think he did leave something but the PLE crack crew blew it.

 

[Dan O.]

...

In the case of the timeline, which I believe started this back and forth, I posted it as the timeline from .net certainly I should have said a timeline. My apologies.

Did you find anything credible in that timeline? Leave the nutters in their own closed world. If you want to argue a real timeline, I have one that gets the times right and leaves out the speculations. Here is the first part for Novemver 1 up to 21:05 when Meredith arrives at the cottage.

==1 November 2007==

• Amanda spent the night away from the cottage (presumably at Raffaele's place) and went "home" on Nov 1st. (From Amanda's Testimony)
• 00:02:41 Raffaele called father using landline (262 sec) - Massei Report pg 343
• 00:41:49 Amanda calls unidentified person (local number) (20 seconds) - Massei Report pg 345
• 00:57:20 Amanda sends SMS to Raffaele cell Via dell'Aquila 5-Tower sett.3 Aqueduct - Massei Report pg 345
• 01:04:58 Amanda receives call from 075/9660789 (cell located in Piazza Dante 26) - Massei Report pg 345
• 14:31:43 to 15:55:57 Meredith's english phone at cottage (Massei 337)
• 15:01:58, 15:48:56, 15:55:03, 15:55:57 "the phone connected to cell 3302025621, whose signal was equally reachable in Meredith’s bedroom"
• 15:48 Meredith texts her English friends that she will be delayed in meeting with them [[Republica 2007-11-21 - Prosecution Timeline|(PT)]]
• 16:00-17:00 Amanda and Raffaele leave the cottage (From Amanda's testimony)
• 16:50 Raffaele is called by his father. Time established by phone records on [[Raffaele Sollecito]] page.
• 16:56 Raffaele is called by his father. Time established by phone records on [[Raffaele Sollecito]] page.
• 17:45 (approx) Jovana Popovic stops by and asks Raffaele to drive her to the train station. (Murder in Italy)
  :Amanda says this was before they started watching Amelie (Amanda testimony)
  :Jovana sees Amanda on the computer typing.
• 18:27:15 VLC was launched to play the multimedia file Amelie.avi - Massei Report pg 325
  :Amanda and Raffaele start watching Amelie ( 122 min, implies film would finish playing at 20:29 if left to run normally. Closing credits would start at 20:25 )
• 19:30 TG3 news report starts; Guede claims he left home shortly after the program started.
  :Source Micheli report. "Coming to the evening of 1 November, R. remember leaving the house as he began the TG3 regional".
• 19:53 First sighting of figure thought to be Guede on car park CCTV camera, adjusted forward 12 minutes per the defence's theory.
  :He is walking through the car park towards the cottage. CCTV time stamp is 19:41. [http://tinypic.com/useralbum.php?ua=K4w489WcUJqQU9oqEUnEYw==]
• 20:18:12 Lumumba sent text message to Knox saying she didn't need to come to work.
  :Time established by phone records on [[Amanda Knox]] page.
  cell Aqueduct Street Eagle 5-wk. 3) - Massei Report pg 345
• 20:22 Second sighting of figure thought to be Guede on car park CCTV camera, adjusted forward 12 minutes per the defence's theory.
  :He is walking from left to right along the street, past the car park on the right and the cottage on the left. Fits with Guede's claim to have arrived at the cottage around 20:30. CCTV time stamp is 20:10. [http://tinypic.com/useralbum.php?ua=K4w489WcUJqQU9oqEUnEYw==]
• 20:35:48 Knox responds with text message to Lumumba. Time established by phone records on [[Amanda Knox]] page. Message is "See you later, Good evening" in Italian.
  cell Via Berardi area 7) - Massei Report pg 345
• 20:40 Amanda and Raffaele at RS's place. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29812751/ MSNBC 2009-03-20]
  :''In testimony'', Jovana Popovic of Serbia said Sollecito had agreed to drive her to a bus station in Perugia the night of the murder. ... Popovic went to Sollecito's house at 8:40 p.m. to tell him she no longer needed to go, and Knox opened the door to take the message, the Serbian woman testified. (Did Amanda answer the door because Raffaele was on the phone?)
  :Raffaele was supposed to drive her to the station around midnight.
  :"AK: Later on, she came back and talked with Raffaele, and Raffaele explained to me that she didn't need to be driven to the station any more." about the time they were having dinner. (Amanda testimony)
• 20:42:56 Raffaele is called by his father, talks for 3 1/2 minutes.
  :Time established by phone records on [[Raffaele Sollecito]] page. (cell Beradi Way Area 7) - Massei Report pg 339
• 20:43 Prosecution presented CCTV time where figure is seen crossing the street towards the cottage (see 21:05)
  rosecution claims CCTV clocks were 10 minutes fast (citation needed), CCTV timestamp would therefore be 20:53 (Actual timestamp shows 20:51:36.17)
  :Sollecito's defense however contested the manner in which they were identified times of the images. [http://www.lanazione.it/perugia/2009/03/13/157885-mossa_legali_raffaele.shtml Lanazione, March 13, 2009 (it) ]
• 20:45 Meredith leaves residence of Robyn Butterworth at Via Bontempi, 22 and walks with Sophie Purton.
  :[[Republica 2007-11-21 - Prosecution Timeline|(PT=20:45)]]
  :Time approximate, based on Sophie's statement that she arrived home in Via del Lupo at 20:55.
• 20:55 Sophie Purton arrives home in Via del Lupo.
  :Source Micheli Report. "On 17 November, P[urton] made a new prosecuting magistrate deposition...correcting the time that she was back in Via del Lupo, recalling that it was still 20:55".
• 20:56 Phone call from Meredith's phone to mother, cut off almost immediately.
  :"In evidence on Friday, Stefano Sisani, of the Perugia flying squad, revealed that a call to Kercher’s mother, Arline, in Coulsdon, Surrey, was made from her mobile at 8.56pm on the night of November 1. She used the phone daily to call her mother, who was ill. The call was cut off before she got through" [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5950377.ece (Times Online, March 22, 2009)]
  :Theory that call was cut off by attack is unlikely, as Meredith would still be near Sophie's flat at this time. More likely explanation is that call was dropped because of poor signal in tight medieval streets.
  :Logged in phone memory - Massei Report pg 350
• 21:04 Sighting of figure thought to be Meredith on the car park CCTV camera, CCTV time adjusted forward 12 minutes per the defense's theory. [[File:CCTV-2007.11.01-20.51.36.17.jpg|thumb]]
  :The figure is walking from left to right on the same side of the street as the cottage. CCTV time stamp was said to be 20:43 in early news reports (when the figure was thought to be Amanda); later reports of 20:41 are possibly a confusion with Guede's sighting at 19:41. Fits with Sophie's arrival home at 20:55, and the interrupted call at 20:56. [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1569140/Meredith-murder-suspect-caught-on-CCTV.html Telegraph 2007-11-12][http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...V-footage-night-British-student-murdered.html Daily Mail 2009-03-14]

===21:05 Kercher arrives at cottage===​

 

[Grinder]

True. Yet the ugly side of Puritanism was not exactly female-friendly, and fully capable of the atrocities-in-the-name-of-religion that has infected a small sect within another of the world's great religions, the radical jihadists.

Getting into the minds of people who take religion to the lengths of the Salem bunch, ISIS, or Miginini in his conservative, medieval Catholicism is an impossible task.

It may not be 100% precise to accuse Mignini of pushing a Satanic-rite motive for this killing, but the term "Satanic Rite" would most certainly qualify as a headline to the story- esp. by the standards of the UK tabloids.

Machiavelli has reprinted here Mignini's early fleshing-out of that theory and, yes, it is not specifically a Satanic Rite. But it did include elements of rites associated with hallowe'en and All Saints day in his thinking.... point being....

..... by the time of his 2009 summation at the first trial, Mignini was psychologizing the crime. He'd dropped completely the religious slant. Nadeau said Mignini did that partly because Comodi threatened to resign if he didn't. Once again, Machiavelli upthread provided a Mignini-friendly version of that closing in 2009 which is pure psychologizing.

A lot of this case was tried in the wine-bars of Perugia in late evenings in 2008-2009 as the various actors rubbed shoulders with each other and argued their latest theory. It is true that "Satanic Rite", at the very least, became code for what Mignini was pushing. It also seems to be true that by the time late November 2009 rolled around, and he was to "bottle the egg", he summed up the case very differently than how he started.

The religious component of this - Puritan-excess, Catholic-inquisition - died on the vine. That boat don't float for hundreds of reasons, mainly because few people outside of Mignini's bizarre version of Catholicism think that way (even in Italy); let alone prosecute crimes with that as the subtext.

The poser now is not Mignini, it is Chieffi. By the time Chieffi wrote his Supreme Court motivations report, he wanted to return to the sex-game gone wrong. WTF!?

Bill when it all started it was a sex game gone bad. When Meredith's early description as a party girl was reformed the meme changed more to the rite and associated with the day of the dead etc.

Mignini probably does think it is related to Satan it's just that he didn't go on the record saying so.

 

[Grinder]

Did you find anything credible in that timeline? Leave the nutters in their own closed world. If you want to argue a real timeline, I have one that gets the times right and leaves out the speculations. Here is the first part for Novemver 1 up to 21:05 when Meredith arrives at the cottage.

==1 November 2007==

• Amanda spent the night away from the cottage (presumably at Raffaele's place) and went "home" on Nov 1st. (From Amanda's Testimony)
• 00:02:41 Raffaele called father using landline (262 sec) - Massei Report pg 343
• 00:41:49 Amanda calls unidentified person (local number) (20 seconds) - Massei Report pg 345
• 00:57:20 Amanda sends SMS to Raffaele cell Via dell'Aquila 5-Tower sett.3 Aqueduct - Massei Report pg 345
• 01:04:58 Amanda receives call from 075/9660789 (cell located in Piazza Dante 26) - Massei Report pg 345
• 14:31:43 to 15:55:57 Meredith's english phone at cottage (Massei 337)
• 15:01:58, 15:48:56, 15:55:03, 15:55:57 "the phone connected to cell 3302025621, whose signal was equally reachable in Meredith’s bedroom"
• 15:48 Meredith texts her English friends that she will be delayed in meeting with them [[Republica 2007-11-21 - Prosecution Timeline|(PT)]]
• 16:00-17:00 Amanda and Raffaele leave the cottage (From Amanda's testimony)
• 16:50 Raffaele is called by his father. Time established by phone records on [[Raffaele Sollecito]] page.
• 16:56 Raffaele is called by his father. Time established by phone records on [[Raffaele Sollecito]] page.
• 17:45 (approx) Jovana Popovic stops by and asks Raffaele to drive her to the train station. (Murder in Italy)
  :Amanda says this was before they started watching Amelie (Amanda testimony)
  :Jovana sees Amanda on the computer typing.
• 18:27:15 VLC was launched to play the multimedia file Amelie.avi - Massei Report pg 325
  :Amanda and Raffaele start watching Amelie ( 122 min, implies film would finish playing at 20:29 if left to run normally. Closing credits would start at 20:25 )
• 19:30 TG3 news report starts; Guede claims he left home shortly after the program started.
  :Source Micheli report. "Coming to the evening of 1 November, R. remember leaving the house as he began the TG3 regional".
• 19:53 First sighting of figure thought to be Guede on car park CCTV camera, adjusted forward 12 minutes per the defence's theory.
  :He is walking through the car park towards the cottage. CCTV time stamp is 19:41. [http://tinypic.com/useralbum.php?ua=K4w489WcUJqQU9oqEUnEYw==]
• 20:18:12 Lumumba sent text message to Knox saying she didn't need to come to work.
  :Time established by phone records on [[Amanda Knox]] page.
  cell Aqueduct Street Eagle 5-wk. 3) - Massei Report pg 345
• 20:22 Second sighting of figure thought to be Guede on car park CCTV camera, adjusted forward 12 minutes per the defence's theory.
  :He is walking from left to right along the street, past the car park on the right and the cottage on the left. Fits with Guede's claim to have arrived at the cottage around 20:30. CCTV time stamp is 20:10. [http://tinypic.com/useralbum.php?ua=K4w489WcUJqQU9oqEUnEYw==]
• 20:35:48 Knox responds with text message to Lumumba. Time established by phone records on [[Amanda Knox]] page. Message is "See you later, Good evening" in Italian.
  cell Via Berardi area 7) - Massei Report pg 345
• 20:40 Amanda and Raffaele at RS's place. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29812751/ MSNBC 2009-03-20]
  :''In testimony'', Jovana Popovic of Serbia said Sollecito had agreed to drive her to a bus station in Perugia the night of the murder. ... Popovic went to Sollecito's house at 8:40 p.m. to tell him she no longer needed to go, and Knox opened the door to take the message, the Serbian woman testified. (Did Amanda answer the door because Raffaele was on the phone?)
  :Raffaele was supposed to drive her to the station around midnight.
  :"AK: Later on, she came back and talked with Raffaele, and Raffaele explained to me that she didn't need to be driven to the station any more." about the time they were having dinner. (Amanda testimony)
• 20:42:56 Raffaele is called by his father, talks for 3 1/2 minutes.
  :Time established by phone records on [[Raffaele Sollecito]] page. (cell Beradi Way Area 7) - Massei Report pg 339
• 20:43 Prosecution presented CCTV time where figure is seen crossing the street towards the cottage (see 21:05)
  rosecution claims CCTV clocks were 10 minutes fast (citation needed), CCTV timestamp would therefore be 20:53 (Actual timestamp shows 20:51:36.17)
  :Sollecito's defense however contested the manner in which they were identified times of the images. [http://www.lanazione.it/perugia/2009/03/13/157885-mossa_legali_raffaele.shtml Lanazione, March 13, 2009 (it) ]
• 20:45 Meredith leaves residence of Robyn Butterworth at Via Bontempi, 22 and walks with Sophie Purton.
  :[[Republica 2007-11-21 - Prosecution Timeline|(PT=20:45)]]
  :Time approximate, based on Sophie's statement that she arrived home in Via del Lupo at 20:55.
• 20:55 Sophie Purton arrives home in Via del Lupo.
  :Source Micheli Report. "On 17 November, P[urton] made a new prosecuting magistrate deposition...correcting the time that she was back in Via del Lupo, recalling that it was still 20:55".
• 20:56 Phone call from Meredith's phone to mother, cut off almost immediately.
  :"In evidence on Friday, Stefano Sisani, of the Perugia flying squad, revealed that a call to Kercher’s mother, Arline, in Coulsdon, Surrey, was made from her mobile at 8.56pm on the night of November 1. She used the phone daily to call her mother, who was ill. The call was cut off before she got through" [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5950377.ece (Times Online, March 22, 2009)]
  :Theory that call was cut off by attack is unlikely, as Meredith would still be near Sophie's flat at this time. More likely explanation is that call was dropped because of poor signal in tight medieval streets.
  :Logged in phone memory - Massei Report pg 350
• 21:04 Sighting of figure thought to be Meredith on the car park CCTV camera, CCTV time adjusted forward 12 minutes per the defense's theory. [[File:CCTV-2007.11.01-20.51.36.17.jpg|thumb]]
  :The figure is walking from left to right on the same side of the street as the cottage. CCTV time stamp was said to be 20:43 in early news reports (when the figure was thought to be Amanda); later reports of 20:41 are possibly a confusion with Guede's sighting at 19:41. Fits with Sophie's arrival home at 20:55, and the interrupted call at 20:56. [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1569140/Meredith-murder-suspect-caught-on-CCTV.html Telegraph 2007-11-12][http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...V-footage-night-British-student-murdered.html Daily Mail 2009-03-14]

===21:05 Kercher arrives at cottage===​

As always first rate.

 

[Dan O.]

As always first rate.

It can always be improved.

 

[Strozzi]

I'm sitting in my favorite fast food restaurant (sorry, Mom) reading this blog on my iPad and I see on the muted TV that Italy's prime minister and Obama are at the White House this moment speaking live to the press. So I want to ask if Cassation threw the case and declared the defendants innocent so that the Italian prime minister could keep on schedule and come visit Obama in Washington DC? Was that worked out by the US Government along with the bribe of two US air planes given to Italy? Or did Raffaele Sollecito's father arrange for the White House visit?

As a US taxpayer, I just want to understand if my government had to pay upfront for the verdict or if it got a credit from Italy.

 

[Numbers]

I'm sitting in my favorite fast food restaurant (sorry, Mom) reading this blog on my iPad and I see on the muted TV that Italy's prime minister and Obama are at the White House this moment speaking live to the press. So I want to ask if Cassation threw the case and declared the defendants innocent so that the Italian prime minister could keep on schedule and come visit Obama in Washington DC? Was that worked out by the US Government along with the bribe of two US air planes given to Italy? Or did Raffaele Sollecito's father arrange for the White House visit?

As a US taxpayer, I just want to understand if my government had to pay upfront for the verdict or if it got a credit from Italy.

Amanda Knox apparently was not mentioned in the meeting between Obama and Renzi. Apparently that lack of mention is part of the conspiracy....by the Masons was it?

http://www.voanews.com/content/italy-prime-minister-visits-white-house-for-talks/2723752.html

 

[Bill Williams]

Bill when it all started it was a sex game gone bad. When Meredith's early description as a party girl was reformed the meme changed more to the rite and associated with the day of the dead etc.

Mignini probably does think it is related to Satan it's just that he didn't go on the record saying so.

What do I know? I just emerged from mom's basement and found out Obama got reelected in 2012!!!

There, then, needs to be another timeline - what did Mignini know and when did he know it? That dual question brought down Nixon, and it could make Mignini's life miserable too.

One can hope. I'll bet you all the money in your pocket that Satan worked his way into the convo's in the Perugian wine-bars in 2008-2009 as all and sundry argued the case over wine, the way we do here 7 years later over Diet Pepsi.

The poser is Chieffi. He's not the medieval Catholic here, but a competent jurist on Italy's highest court. Even Satan has no truck with ISC rulings, El Diablo is more of a regional, upcountry phenom.

Chieffi made a comment that can be placed on the timeline.... no Satan, no Freud..... just a sex game.

Crini - it was dorm cleanliness. Nencini - let's give Rudy's story another look.... rent money.

 

[Bill Williams]

Amanda Knox apparently was not mentioned in the meeting between Obama and Renzi. Apparently that lack of mention is part of the conspiracy....by the Masons was it?

http://www.voanews.com/content/italy-prime-minister-visits-white-house-for-talks/2723752.html

Americans need to know if their tax dollars went to all five of the Supreme Court panel..... when all they needed was to pay off three of them. Government overspending will be the death of us all.

 

[acbytesla]

Fools errand would be an errand run by a fool which would be calling members here fools which would be a personal attack.

Seriously more than just I have requested a time line from the PGP. Although not made here, it is still a timeline that was at least partially in response to poster(s) here.

I find it as worthwhile to show no timeline can be put together as discussing anything else about this case at this time.

Since this whole case has been about what nutters think, some being judges and prosecutors, why stop now?

Actually, I have no problem wither it. In fact, I think it is interesting. I also wouldn't say that a "fools errand" is a personal attack. It is basically saying that the action is pointless. I certainly wouldn't take it personally.

You rarely ever see them even attempt to put together a time line and if the do, they abandon aspects of the prosecution case. It seems as if they are abandoning Curatolo... (good idea, he's worthless)and ignoring the ear witnesses, Naruto, and of course, the digestion.