Merged Continuation - Feminist Bullies Tearing the Video Game Industry Apart Part II

[erwinl]

That was definitely the boiling over point, but it can certainly be argued that things like doritogate, Hernandez, Eurogamer, and others were already brewing what was to later come. Those things obviously happened before any of the ZQ crap.



This one is always funny to read. Moot banning talk about GG on 4chan (along with neogaf, r/games, and pretty much everywhere else) is one of the key factors that got everybody riled up. You know?... all of those social media sites colluding together to keep people from discussing something? You revisionists have turned that into "GG was too toxic/violent/whatever for EVEN 4CHAN OMG!!!!", when the truth of the matter is that all of those community leaders buddied up to protect and whiteknight the poor helpless zoe, which alienated a lot of people that simply wanted to discuss something that was obviously a popular topic. If they had just let it be it most likely would have fizzled out in a matter of days and literally nobody would give a **** about it anymore.


Discussion moved to 8chan and other places. So? What do you expect to happen when nearly every site simultaneously decides that a topic is not to be discussed? And at this point there was nothing "anti-feminist" about it. People were pissed that posts were getting deleted by the thousands and discussion of the zoe post was getting banned everywhere. Or to put it another way, people were pissed about coordinated censorship and blatant cronyism.



That has obviously been a part of it, but it can be easily proven that 2 out of 3 of them deliberately inserted themselves into the whole thing on their own and were not "focused on" before that. Also, the movement is clearly split between those that care about that side of things and those that do not.



Everything starts somewhere. It's not like people are just ignoring damning evidence of bigger happenings while explicitly targeting these poor helpless feminists. If bigger things, or things about bigger players come out you can bet your butt that GG will jump all over it. It's laughable to think otherwise.



Whatever floats your boat man. It makes no difference to me... be a total ***hole to everybody that simply disagrees with you for all I care, but it certainly isn't a good look if you're trying to convince anybody that what you are saying is true.



Can't argue with that.



Can't agree with that. edit - Actually, you have to be completely delusional to think that. Yes things get downvoted on KiA, but you know what?... you can actually say things there that go against the herd. Try that on ghazi?... banned and deleted. Try it on sjwgaf?... banned. Try to go against the herd ANYWHERE that the aGGro side is running things?... banned and likely deleted.

To think that KiA is the more extreme example of no critical thought or dissenting opinions is just absolutely ridiculous.



Or in your case, you don't need any facts or evidence, just baseless assertions repeated constantly until it begins to look like it's the truth.



The irony here is just flat out awesome. Well done.

Highlighted.
That is very enlightening about Gamergate. Thank you for your explanation about how these people think.

 

[cntdrv55]

Technically anything "can be argued". The existence of Bigfoot and chemtrails "can be argued". It's disingenuous to try to handwave away the fact that virtually everyone agrees that gamergate as a distinct phenomenon kicked off with the Quinnspiracy Theory, and that the core of gamergate from the start was drawn from people who got a big emotional kick out of punishing a woman for corruptly inserting herself into "their" games industry, based on the provably false manifesto of one psycho ex.

Provably false eh? Prove it then.

Even if the Quinnspiracy were true, as opposed to requiring time travel, it would not be anything a rational adult would care deeply about.

Oh so it's up to you to decide what other adults should care and talk about. Yup. Found the SJW.

So one person gets arguably undue exposure for a free indie game, so what?

It pisses people off, that's what. Getting exposure because you have friends that are journos or you screwed your way to getting coverage is going to piss people off. Plain and simple. People want to see games get covered because the game is good. Not because zoe quinn gives good head.

That's not an ethics breach on the scale of a of major gaming company demanding good reviews in exchange for preview access and advertising revenue, say, to pick one kind of issue which had been going on for ages beforehand and which the gators didn't lift a finger about.

So you agree then that it is an ethics breach, but you think it should be ignored because there are bigger issues?... even though there is no smoking gun proof of these bigger issues? Ok.

Do the math. Gators don't give a damn about ethics in games journalism, until an excuse comes along to attack a woman for being an evil, sexy seductress to get ahead somehow in gaming. Does this support the claim that it's really about ethics in game journalism? No. Does this support the claim that it's about femininity, sexuality, feminism and young male gamers' resentment of those things? Yes.

What does zoe quinn have to do with ANY of that? There is a major gap when jumping from "indie dev gets singled out for being a whore and making a ****ty game" to "it's about femininity, sexuality, feminism". It doesn't even make any sense. At all.

That was the core group who got the ball rolling. Any pretence that this was a grass roots consumer advocacy movement came along much later and was a story cooked up by that core group.

Ok. Again, prove it.

Nobody wants to be a breeding ground for the sort of slime who send death threats and rape threats to women for being feminists.

Once again with just throwing the feminist thing on there. Offer up your evidence that people were doing any of that stuff because she was a feminist, and not because she made a ****ty game and slept with people that could get her ahead in the industry. I'll wait.

...and the victim-blaming begins. It's your fault you can't go on the internet without attracting massive, organised harassment, you made them kick us off 4chan, if you hadn't done that none of this would ever have happened! None of it! It's all your fault!.

Saying that it would have fizzled out is NOT "victim blaming". You SJW's love to throw around those stupid buzzwords so much you are effectively making them meaningless.

Yup, roll on that victim blaming. They deliberately inserted themselves, they wanted the death threats and rape threats, gators were helpless before their sexy female wiles, gators are the real victims here! When will these evil women stop making people threaten to kill them? When oh when? Only then will this madness stop!

Oh so you disagree that Mr Flynt inserted himself into the situation?... with the sole intent of drumming up victim points so he could boost exposure for his failing game and make thousands on his patreon? Do you really pay so little attention to what actually goes on? Of course you do, you obviously only get your talking points from the "breeding ground of rational thought and normalcy" that is gamerghazi.

Yup. Any minute now they'll be boycotting EA. Any second. It would be laughable to think otherwise. Gamergate isn't just about an excuse to work yourself into a frothing hatred of women and feminists and feel like a victim, no no! Gators are 100% ready to stop buying any major video game franchise the second they uncover evidence of unethical behaviour. Just you wait.

Now you're getting it.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Provably false eh? Prove it then.

The problem with gators standardising their time-wasting tactics is that it allows the rest of us to standardise our responses. We've already been over the Quinnspiracy. There is no evidence she was boning anyone relevant at the time she allegedly got undeserved coverage for her free game. There is evidence she was later in a relationship with someone who gave her game an approving mention and highlighted it in an article, but unless her evil woman vagina secretes chemicals that travel backwards in time to corrupt male journalists it doesn't seem like it's any evidence of an ethical failing on the author's part.

Oh so it's up to you to decide what other adults should care and talk about. Yup. Found the SJW.

"Adults"? I thought we were talking about gamergaters. I kid, I bet many of them are over eighteen, albeit mostly still living at home.

Demographic jokes aside, yes, I do judge people based on what issues they find ethically important. If a person getting approving mentions (not a review, not a sale) for a free game (no direct profit motive) because they slept with someone seems like justification for a massive groundswell of outrage and harassment, whereas (for example) an experienced game journalist getting fired for honestly reviewing an advertiser's games does not, I'm going to judge their moral compass.

Once again I want to emphasise that the evidence does not support the allegation referenced above even being true. This is a double-barreled argument. The Quinnspiracy is a load of bollocks, but even if it were totally true it would still deserve to be a tiny scandal at most in the greater scheme of things.

It pisses people off, that's what. Getting exposure because you have friends that are journos or you screwed your way to getting coverage is going to piss people off. Plain and simple. People want to see games get covered because the game is good. Not because zoe quinn gives good head.

Here's why people don't take gators seriously. If I was drawing up a list of justified consumer complaints about the video games industry, the big companies using advertising revenue to control editorial content would be right at the top. Companies releasing games which are unplayable, unfinishable or just plain horrible at launch and planning to patch them into playability later without compensating consumers for having bought a product not fit for purpose, that would be up there too. Companies using IP law to squat on abandonware they neither sell not support is a personal thing, maybe not the biggest issue, but it bugs me. These issues affect a lot of people in important ways.

You know what's not high on the list? The possibility that maybe some maker of a free indie game got slightly more exposure than they otherwise would have for the game they were giving away because some time afterwards they slept with someone who wrote an article about indie games. Not really on my radar, you know what I mean?

What does zoe quinn have to do with ANY of that? There is a major gap when jumping from "indie dev gets singled out for being a whore and making a ****ty game" to "it's about femininity, sexuality, feminism". It doesn't even make any sense. At all.

Wow. If you keep posting things like this people will start to think you're my sock puppet.

You don't think that by using gendered slurs like "whore", referring to the sexual skills you imagine Quinn to have and so on, you might make people think that you have a negative obsession with female sexuality? You don't think that by obsessing about Wu, Sarkeesian and Quinn to the near total exclusion of any actual games journalists or indeed anyone who doesn't tick the boxes of being both female, a feminist and having an opinion about video games, gamgergate might make people think that it's more of an anti-feminist hate cult than an organisation that cares about the ethics of actual games journalists?

 

[cntdrv55]

The problem with gators standardising their time-wasting tactics is that it allows the rest of us to standardise our responses. We've already been over the Quinnspiracy. There is no evidence she was boning anyone relevant at the time she allegedly got undeserved coverage for her free game. There is evidence she was later in a relationship with someone who gave her game an approving mention and highlighted it in an article, but unless her evil woman vagina secretes chemicals that travel backwards in time to corrupt male journalists it doesn't seem like it's any evidence of an ethical failing on the author's part.

Have you ever been in a relationship? Apparently not if you think it's impossible that they were friends before "officially" hooking up. Not like it matters since the people who claim the relationship started after the article all had a vested interest in downplaying it.

"Adults"? I thought we were talking about gamergaters. I kid, I bet many of them are over eighteen, albeit mostly still living at home.

Hahahahaha. Hehohaha, ohheheha. Man that's such a good one. So original too. How do you come up with such amazing comedy?

Demographic jokes aside, yes, I do judge people based on what issues they find ethically important.

Oh sweet we agree on something then. I think getting more female lead characters into video games is at the absolute bottom of the pile of important issues we're facing today. In addition to that, I find people that ***** and moan about Link not being a female in the next Zelda or get GTA banned because you can run over hookers to be some of the most petty and worthless people of our generation.

If they want to poke the hornets nest and get stung that's their own deal. Shut up and play the games, or at the very least, don't turn into a little baby and beg for victim bucks when people talk **** to you on your twitter.

If a person getting approving mentions (not a review, not a sale) for a free game (no direct profit motive) because they slept with someone seems like justification for a massive groundswell of outrage and harassment, whereas (for example) an experienced game journalist getting fired for honestly reviewing an advertiser's games does not, I'm going to judge their moral compass.

Why does it have to be one or the other?

Once again I want to emphasise that the evidence does not support the allegation referenced above even being true. This is a double-barreled argument. The Quinnspiracy is a load of bollocks, but even if it were totally true it would still deserve to be a tiny scandal at most in the greater scheme of things.

I will for the third time ask for the proof. Everything points to Grayson giving the game favorable coverage, and grayson and quinn having an undisclosed relationship. Why is this so hard for some people? It's really simple. If he had said "hey guys check out my friend's game that I did play testing for", nobody would have an issue. Why is disclosure so difficult for some of you?

Here's why people don't take gators seriously. If I was drawing up a list of justified consumer complaints about the video games industry, the big companies using advertising revenue to control editorial content would be right at the top. Companies releasing games which are unplayable, unfinishable or just plain horrible at launch and planning to patch them into playability later without compensating consumers for having bought a product not fit for purpose, that would be up there too. Companies using IP law to squat on abandonware they neither sell not support is a personal thing, maybe not the biggest issue, but it bugs me. These issues affect a lot of people in important ways.

OMG I hate all of that too! You're a GG'er bro! You misogynist! You sexist rapist monster you!

See how annoying that is?

You know what's not high on the list? The possibility that maybe some maker of a free indie game got slightly more exposure than they otherwise would have for the game they were giving away because some time afterwards they slept with someone who wrote an article about indie games. Not really on my radar, you know what I mean?

Personally, yeah, I do. I read about the zoe post the night it was posted and went "meh", and clicked my back button. A few days later I read about the blowup over all of the deletions on r/games, and went "huh, is there something I missed?" I really didn't care until all of the GJP stuff came to light and all of the "dead" articles were written, then I started to pay more attention.

Wow. If you keep posting things like this people will start to think you're my sock puppet.

Psssh. You know they'll think you're mine.

You don't think that by using gendered slurs like "whore", referring to the sexual skills you imagine Quinn to have and so on, you might make people think that you have a negative obsession with female sexuality? You don't think that by obsessing about Wu, Sarkeesian and Quinn to the near total exclusion of any actual games journalists or indeed anyone who doesn't tick the boxes of being both female, a feminist and having an opinion about video games, gamgergate might make people think that it's more of an anti-feminist hate cult than an organisation that cares about the ethics of actual games journalists?

That's all just a sideshow. I am much more interested in the journalist side of this than I am with these professional victims that won't shut up because they are financially motivated to keep stirring **** up. And I know a lot of people agree with me on that.

 

[cntdrv55]

And before the inevitable "they aren't trying to stir **** up", I present:

https://twitter.com/superspacedad/status/547138064544301056

Anti-GG posting a screenshot of "harassment", but forgets to actually hit the post button on his sock account before taking the screenshot. Good one "spacedad". Keep fighting that totally moral fight.

Here we have brianna wu faking her own death threats:

There are tons of examples of this. Instead of just owning up to the obvious fact that there is a ton of cronyism in the games media, the SJW brigade rushes to their defense because "they are making positive change happen" and writing crap articles about the latest social outrage. So they manufacture their own "evidence" to make gamergate as a whole out to be harassers, misogynists, sexists, or whatever else they can cook up.

There is also a ton of evidence of anti-gg doxxing, harassing, and threatening gg'ers, but of course that is totally acceptable because "they deserve it".

 

[Babbylonian]

Does [the lie of] the "movement" starting with morons overreacting to click-bait articles really seem that much better than [the truth of] it starting with morons making unfounded accusations against a woman based on her sex life?

 

[BobTheCoward]

There are tons of examples of this. Instead of just owning up to the obvious fact that there is a ton of cronyism in the games media,

Maybe I am late to the party, but how is this an issue? What is wrong with this? There was literally a Nintendo Power and Playstation magazine. Does any other fans of an activity care where the trade media happens to be associated with the trade?

 

[cntdrv55]

Maybe I am late to the party, but how is this an issue? What is wrong with this? There was literally a Nintendo Power and Playstation magazine. Does any other fans of an activity care where the trade media happens to be associated with the trade?

The issue is disclosure. An official magazine like Nintendo Power or PSM are of course going to be biased towards their parent company.

In general though, it is considered ethical for a journalist to either disclose personal relationships or recuse themselves from a story that they have ties to.

Somebody writing a favorable review or spotlighting a game when they were a play tester or their husband/wife helped develop it, while pretending to be a neutral third party is not ethical.

 

[A'isha]

[qimg]https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/c/cb/Exif_data.png[/qimg]

Wu's tweet isn't deleted. It's right here (you can even see it as the tweet the "explain yourself Wu" tweet was made in reply to). And even KiA recognized that this was a dead-end accusation.

 

[cntdrv55]

Wu's tweet isn't deleted. It's right here (you can even see it as the tweet the "explain yourself Wu" tweet was made in reply to). And even KiA recognized that this was a dead-end accusation.

Interesting. Strange that there are so many comments about it being deleted and then later saying it's back up. I didn't think it was possible to delete a tweet and then undelete it, but I don't use twitter much so I could be wrong.

It also seems pretty split in the KiA thread. I do find it odd that the image was created on the 8th when everything went down on the 9th and 10th.

Not a big deal either way. brianna wu has shown countless times that the only thing that matters is the victim bucks.

 

[erwinl]

Interesting. Strange that there are so many comments about it being deleted and then later saying it's back up. I didn't think it was possible to delete a tweet and then undelete it, but I don't use twitter much so I could be wrong.

It also seems pretty split in the KiA thread. I do find it odd that the image was created on the 8th when everything went down on the 9th and 10th.

Not a big deal either way. brianna wu has shown countless times that the only thing that matters is the victim bucks.

Could be that the person placing the picture of 'Tweet deleted!!!' faked that image?

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Interesting. Strange that there are so many comments about it being deleted and then later saying it's back up. I didn't think it was possible to delete a tweet and then undelete it, but I don't use twitter much so I could be wrong.

I can't imagine a gamergater lying about something easily checked.

Nor can I imagine gamergaters repeating a falsehood over and over again without checking their facts.

No, it's a mystery we will never solve. How did that evil, evil woman do it? How did she delete the incriminating evidence while at the same time never having deleted it?

I bet it has something to do with sex. She must have had sex with someone at Twitter. That is where all the evidence points! That makes it as good as true!

 

[cntdrv55]

Could be that the person placing the picture of 'Tweet deleted!!!' faked that image?

Definitely could be, but there were people making comments in real time saying that it was deleted and then later posting that it was back up. So again I'm not sure what that's all about since I don't think you can undelete tweets like that.

 

[cntdrv55]

I can't imagine a gamergater lying about something easily checked.

Nor can I imagine gamergaters repeating a falsehood over and over again without checking their facts.

No, it's a mystery we will never solve. How did that evil, evil woman do it? How did she delete the incriminating evidence while at the same time never having deleted it?

I bet it has something to do with sex. She must have had sex with someone at Twitter. That is where all the evidence points! That makes it as good as true!

Haha. Perfect neogaf style ****-posting there. Are you a mod there by chance? I'm happy to see that this topic makes you so angry and all, but take it easy there ol' chap. Would be a darn shame to lose such a kind poster if you give yourself a coronary from all that aGGression.

Oh and "she" isn't a she btw. Just a heads up for future reference.

 

[Puppycow]

Could be that the person placing the picture of 'Tweet deleted!!!' faked that image?

Man, trying to sleuth out who's behind all the nonsense and drama, and the truth or falsehood of each accusation and counter-accusation would be a full-time job!

 

[Cavemonster]

Oh and "she" isn't a she btw. Just a heads up for future reference.

Wherever do people get the impression that Gamergaters are transphobic?

 

[Belz...]

is there a more productive thread with a less accusatory title in this forum somewhere?

I'm sure there is somewhere, but I don't have that kind of time.

 

[Belz...]

Have you ever been in a relationship? Apparently not if you think it's impossible that they were friends before "officially" hooking up.

And it got her a mention ? Wow, that's quite a win for her, right ?

 

[cntdrv55]

Wherever do people get the impression that Gamergaters are transphobic?

While I myself personally think trans people are mentally ill and will never be anything other than the sex they were born as, you can't apply that to an entire group of people that have nothing to do with what I say.

For example, I think most aGGros are morons and fascists. But I have the sense to know that not ALL of them are morons and fascists, and will give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. You guys should try that sometime... I know it's so much easier for you all to paint everybody with the same brush, but it's pretty enlightening when you view people as individuals.

 

[cntdrv55]

And it got her a mention ? Wow, that's quite a win for her, right ?

Not sure, but looking at recent photos of her I'd wager that it probably wasn't much of a win for him.