Michael Brown shooting II

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Mumbles said:
The correct answer is apparently "When you're white, and the police are conducting a no-knock raid on your house".

I'll state this yet again - this is smethign black people hav been discussing (misconduct by *all* police, with black cops often being even worse than white cops) for*decades* now. If it takes a polce force acting like a military from some crazed dictator, and a few stores belong burned, just to get some mayors to say "Oh no, we're not like them, let's all stay calm", then, well, what else were folks supposed to do? And while we're stll seeing black guys being shot, strangled, or beatenfor being in stairwells, running away, not running away, carrying expired IDs, supposedly selling looseys, presenting ID when asked for ID, and so forth, at lest now the White House is looking into it. At least now people are saying "Hm, maybe we *should* give cops body cameras." And that's better than the "Oh, no, he once had cheap gold fronts and quoted Kanye West on Twitter, he was a thuggity thug thug who deserved to be killed for walking home from the store."
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You wrote the above post in response to someone nothing that Mr. Brown grabbed a cop's gun. What part of your polemic addresses the fact that Mr. Brown grabbed a cop's gun?



davefoc said:
I am unaware of a single post that dismisses Brown's behavior with a hand wave. Where are the posts that excuse Michael Brown's behaviors in this thread?
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You missed about 90 pages of the thread, I think.
 
Wolrab said:
Previously discussed in the thread. It is based on a 15 second video and the man was not complying. What does this have to do with Brown? Did Wilson shoot the non-complying dude? Call him a racial epithet?

Plus HuffPo.
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I'm was pretty sure davefoc was involved in that discussion ... maybe I should go back and check my recollection ..
 
Upchurch said:
Maybe she just saw the what the police did after the shooting to both protestors and reporters, which wasn't lies.
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Or, she was thinking of Eric Garner. Or Tamir Rice. Or John Crawford. Or that woman that was beaten on the side of the road. Or Aiyana Stanley-Jones. Or That guy with the toy sword. Or this latest guy. Or the one that got shot becuse there was a gun in his fried's glove compartment. Or the guy that was shot in a stairwell. Or Levar Jones.

The truth is, we've long since passed the point where people can even remember which black person was brutalized by a cop on which day.
 
Wolrab said:
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I am also disappointed that Wilson's actions are intentionally lumped in with the FPD's racism. There is nothing out there suggesting Wilson iswas a bad racist cop other than him being a cop on the FPD. Guilt by association I guess....
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That association isn't exactly a minor thing.

Darren Wilson’s first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

So he's just the good cop on his second job in a racist department. It couldn't possibly have affected his work. :rolleyes:
 
Mumbles said:
Or, she was thinking of Eric Garner. Or Tamir Rice. Or John Crawford. Or that woman that was beaten on the side of the road. Or Aiyana Stanley-Jones. Or That guy with the toy sword. Or this latest guy. Or the one that got shot becuse there was a gun in his fried's glove compartment. Or the guy that was shot in a stairwell. Or Levar Jones.



The truth is, we've long since passed the point where people can even remember which black person was brutalized by a cop on which day.
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Skepticism is dead. Long live skepticism.
 
Mumbles said:
Or, she was thinking of Eric Garner. Or Tamir Rice. Or John Crawford. Or that woman that was beaten on the side of the road. Or Aiyana Stanley-Jones. Or That guy with the toy sword. Or this latest guy. Or the one that got shot becuse there was a gun in his fried's glove compartment. Or the guy that was shot in a stairwell. Or Levar Jones.

The truth is, we've long since passed the point where people can even remember which black person was brutalized by a cop on which day.
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There was no 'guy with a toy sword'. You're referencing the Darrien Hunt shooting, but in mixing grey cases in you're weakening your point and giving ammo to those who claim you (and others) are reaching.

The object he had was a sharp sword-like-object, more than capable of being a weapon, not a toy. To characterize it as a toy is wrong. Claiming race had something to do with it isn't supported by anything besides accusation. There is an ongoing civil suit, but otherwise the shooting was ruled justifiable.
 
Wolrab said:
Previously discussed in the thread. It is based on a 15 second video and the man was not complying. What does this have to do with Brown? Did Wilson shoot the non-complying dude? Call him a racial epithet?

Plus HuffPo.
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A similar article appeared in a wide range of sites. Do you doubt any of the particulars of the story?

I posted it in response to this:
There is nothing out there suggesting Wilson iswas a bad racist cop other than him being a cop on the FPD.
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I think illegally arresting somebody and lying about it provides evidence that he was a bad racist cop. It doesn't prove it, but the idea that there is nothing out there suggesting he was a bad racist cop other than that he was a member of a racist now disbanded police force is clearly false.

TheL8Elvis said:
I'm was pretty sure davefoc was involved in that discussion ... maybe I should go back and check my recollection ..
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I was part of that discussion. My view all along about this case has been that even if Wilson was innocent of a crime that it is possible that unnecessarily antagonistic behaviors by Wilson may have been a contributing factor to this situation. I thought it was too bad that the legitimacy of Wilson's actions would be judged solely on the basis of whether he committed murder.

Until I read through the department of justice report I did not realize how strong the evidence was that Wilson didn't commit murder and my opinions on that issue have changed. I thought that there was a good chance he didn't but I thought it was also not possible to come to a strong conclusion about that based on the evidence. I think I was wrong about that now.
 
tyr_13 said:
There was no 'guy with a toy sword'. You're referencing the Darrien Hunt shooting, but in mixing grey cases in you're weakening your point and giving ammo to those who claim you (and others) are reaching.

The object he had was a sharp sword-like-object, more than capable of being a weapon, not a toy. To characterize it as a toy is wrong. Claiming race had something to do with it isn't supported by anything besides accusation. There is an ongoing civil suit, but otherwise the shooting was ruled justifiable.
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That's funny, the video saw featured him running away fraticallyas the cop chased him into a comercial area shooting his gun.

Maybe she was thinking of the dude tat got maced after some shirtless white guy tried to fight him. Or the black guy that got punched out by a (black) cop for smoking a cigarette. Or the guy that got tasered in front of his kids for sitting on a public bench. Or the old lady tht got tazed in the back because she wanted to know why two teens were being arrested for walking down a street where there was *no sidewalk to walk on*. Or the X number of stories she's seen or heard that weren't recorded.

Told ya, I'm not playing these games.
 
carlitos said:
Except that you are.
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Sorry, but I stopped playing when people here started insisting that Skittles - the candy - was an ingredient for a potent drug that made Trayvon Martin suddenly become aggressive. In the actual druggie sense, "skittles" is street slang for perscription-based cough pills that will just make you dizzy and sick, but nope, folks just love their "black brute" 150-year-old stereotypes. So no, I don't trust what police say anymore.
 
I know about the skittles thing, but I have no idea what your deal is. You might want to consider your audience when you write.
 
carlitos said:
I know about the skittles thing, but I have no idea what your deal is. You might want to consider your audience when you write.
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I have been, the entire time. In fact, that's exactly ho I came to conclude that quite a few people here (and to be clear, I do not mean you or Tyr_13) are far more interested in century-old stereotypes than in reality. It's like listening to someone on the 9/11 board yammer about the melting point of steel over and over - you eventually come to a conclusion about that person.
 
HenryLee said:
I didn't realize that George Zimmerman just drove up and shot Trayvon Martin as he was walking down the street. How'd that guy get acquitted? Oh, that's right, there's a few steps left out of "killed for walking home from the store" that changes things. Wounds the narrative as it were that these things are just happening to poor innocent people who were just minding their own business, doing nothing wrong when BAM! Racists appear from nowhere and start throwing lead!
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You probably also didn't realize that you are making assumptions about what happened there for which there is no creditable evidence, but fits the the thug narrative to which Mumbles is referring.

I think there is a great deal of misunderstanding about what the judicial system is set up to do and that it is a process designed to determine truth akin to science. It most definitely is not, nor does it pretend to be, but people seem to think that it is.
 
davefoc said:
I read through quite a bit of it. Thank you.

I disagree with the apparent consensus here that the report proves Wilson's innocence, but I may be quibbling a bit. The clear purpose of the investigation the report is about was to determine if there was sufficient evidence to charge Wilson. The conclusion of the report was that there wasn't. That does not mean that the report concludes that Wilson was innocent.

However, the evidence that he was innocent is stronger than I imagined and it seems to me that information in the report comes very close to proving the idea that Wilson was factually innocent.

I found this particularly probative with regard to the guilt or innocence of Wilson. From section C 1 ii of the report
This section follows several pages that describe in detail witness statements that are consistent with Wilson's account, their prior statements, and physical evidence. This comes much closer to proving Wilson innocent than I thought was possible.

This does not mean that Wilson's actions were appropriate throughout. I continue to believe that Wilson's decision to pull the car close to Brown may have been a contributing factor to the problem here. Did Wilson just make a simple procedural error with tragic consequences? Was Wilson in a state of substantial anger at the disrespect he received from Brown and the way he maneuvered the car was designed to intimidate Brown as a form of vengeance? I don't know. But the report went a long way to making me believe that Wilson was an unfortunate victim of events, perhaps including routine police activity in Ferguson that had so angered the local population that they were primed to accept an anti-police narrative with little resistance.
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The report did conclude that he was innocent.

"The evidence establishes that the shots fired by Wilson after Brown turned around were in self-defense and thus were not objectively unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment."
 
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