Can one disprove Jesus' resurrection?

[Slowvehicle]

On Planet X, Jesus's resurrection disproves you!

 

[phiwum]

I'm pretty sure that violating the laws of physics constitutes disproof, doesn't it?

Obviously not, from the perspective of those who believe that miracles occur.

If not, it's a pretty heavy weight of evidence against it. From a scientific perspective, it's quite a bit more than enough to discredit the notion, even if you don't use the word "proof" per se.

Yes, if one doesn't have a prior belief in a God capable of doing things inconsistent with physics, then it is pretty much a no-brainer that Jesus didn't come back from the dead[1]. And this is more or less the point of view that Hume takes in "On Miracles".

But almost all Christians believe that this was a unique event, one that involved divine intervention which "broke" the laws of physics, so you don't get very far by pointing out that it breaks the laws of physics. (It is also fairly common in Christianity to admit that such a belief requires a leap of faith and is not a conclusion one reaches by purely rational consideration of simple known facts.)

[1] Well, sort of. Our view of physics is obviously incomplete and likely mistaken on certain things and so we must admit that there's a slim possibility that a body can do that, in ways we do not know. But most Christians believe that Jesus' resurrection is not evidence of our ignorance of physics, but an honest-to-gosh miracle.

 

[Brian-M]

Thanks for your response, Brian. That's a good point, however, the Indians would have to also miraculously reproduce themselves to the tune of 100 million AmerIndians, if I remember correctly, quite a feat for a tiny Middle Eastern nation.

It seems perfectly in line with the population growth required to to get from eight people after the flood to the population of the world when exodus occurred.


But hypothetically, if assume that the average woman will have 4 daughters by the age of 30 (average of one child every 1.5 years starting at the age of 18, half of which are female), then you could, in theory, have a population over 100 million people in under 400 years starting with just one couple (and a hell of a lot of incest).

So in principle it's possible, although completely absurd in a reality where you have things like infant and childhood mortality, death in childbirth, sterility, limited food and resources, ect, to take into consideration.

 

[Leumas]

Obviously not, from the perspective of those who believe that miracles occur.

Yes, if one doesn't have a prior belief in a God capable of doing things inconsistent with physics, then it is pretty much a no-brainer that Jesus didn't come back from the dead[1]. And this is more or less the point of view that Hume takes in "On Miracles".

But almost all Christians believe that this was a unique event, one that involved divine intervention which "broke" the laws of physics, so you don't get very far by pointing out that it breaks the laws of physics. (It is also fairly common in Christianity to admit that such a belief requires a leap of faith and is not a conclusion one reaches by purely rational consideration of simple known facts.)

[1] Well, sort of. Our view of physics is obviously incomplete and likely mistaken on certain things and so we must admit that there's a slim possibility that a body can do that, in ways we do not know. But most Christians believe that Jesus' resurrection is not evidence of our ignorance of physics, but an honest-to-gosh miracle.

Yes, of course an imagined magic-performing god can do anything wishful thinking can conjure up.

Monotheists giggle and snigger when they hear that some pagan religions who believe their gods are equally magically capable still see it necessary to feed their statues milk with a spoon or make offerings of cakes for their delight.

But what boggles my mind is that Christians in the 21st century believe that their magic god seems to be utterly IMPOTENET and cannot find any other way to forgive humanity for a meaningless nothing unless he pretended to be a human so as to undergo a HUMAN BLOOD SACRIFICE of himself to himself so as to appease himself.

It is one thing to believe that a magic GOD can do anything .... it is another thing to believe the following mind boggling insult to sanity as well as to any magically capable god worthy of the title.

Christianity

The almighty creator of the universe who is really 3 gods in 1 god (buy one get two more for free) harbors and lets fester for millennia a grudge against every single and all descendants of a couple who ate from the forbidden fruit of a magic tree after having been tricked by a talking snake.

And despite having previously ordered people to slaughter animals by the thousands almost daily to satisfy his lust for the aroma of burning flesh in order to atone for women having their menstrual cycles as one example among hundreds of other equally imbecilic "sins" that needed their forgiveness, these three but one almighty creator of everything one day decides that this method of appeasing them is not sufficiently dramatic for his liking.

So what scheme did this omnipotent omniscient friend of a Babylonian coward (see below) devise in order to reprieve all those poor animals and let go of his festering grudge?

He committed adultery with and impregnated a 13 years old married girl from among the progeny of none other than a wife-pimping peripatetic illegal immigrant Babylonian (see below) and after gestating inside her womb for nine (?) months he oozed out of her insides as his own son from her who was in fact none other than himself pretending to be a human so as to pretend to sacrifice himself as a final human blood sacrifice of himself to himself so as to appease himself and let go of the grudge against humanity he has been harboring for 3761 years.

And why all this bloodshed of animals and human sacrifice? Because this almighty creator of the universe and all creation had no other choice.
​

Judaism/Christianity/Islam

God, the one and only almighty creator of the universe and everything in it.

God the hottest thing since freshly baked bread.

God the omnipotent omnipresent omniscient omnibenevolent god of all things and all existence... years after having himself killed every infant and newborn and gestating baby of everything living, decided one day that he loves above all humans and all things he ever created one Babylonian who turns out to be a cowardly liar who to save his own YELLOW UNMANLY hide convinced his half-sister who was also his wife to lie for him and say she was only his sister wherever they went so as to avoid fighting in defense of his and her honor.

Even more lowly and scoundrelly, this peripatetic illegal immigrant CASHES IN from pimping his half-sister-wife and makes riches and gold and female slaves and male slaves and flocks of animals and CAMELS that were not even domesticated animals by the time he was supposed to have lived.

And out of all humanity this almighty all-knowing god who made everything in existence promises this cowardly pimp that he will be his SHIELD and FRIEND and that he will give him lands full of honey and milk.

So instead of zapping him off to Hawaii or North California or even Brazil, what does he do..... he orders him to WALK all the way from Babylon to a hellhole piece of dirt already full of people who are already too many for the resources of the land.

And what happens .... this man favored by the almighty god of the universe and given divine shielding has to trek all the way to Egypt because GOD CHEATED HIM and could not even guarantee that the land he ordered him to walk to had enough water and food.

And despite all those promises of DIVINE SHIELDING, the Babylonian coward did not trust his lying god to guarantee his safety while in Egypt and had to resort to lying and pimping his half-sister-wife.... and he did it again after yet another failure of the divine shielding.... and his son also took up the family business and pimped off his wife too....to the same King... after yet another reneging of the divine shielding.

Fortunately for this Babylonian Illegal Immigrant pimp his own wiles served him much better than any intervention from the almighty God of the universe and he made a lot more wealth and riches with the help of his wife's "beauty" than he managed with the help of his cheating GOD.

Furthermore, to add injury to the insult of this HEINOUS ASSAULT ON INTELLIGENCE of a myth, we are told that the almighty creator of the universe struck an eternal indissoluble real estate contract with this Babylonian pimp and to ratify the contract he asked him to cut off the tip of his member and the members of his children and slaves and descendants instead of a handshake or signature or even thumbprint.
​

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

That was real funny. It gave birth to the "Jesus hates Figs" mockery of the WBC.

As a direct descendant of the owner of the fig tree (my claim is as good as anyone's), I would like to say that our family is still pretty pissed at this Cheezewiz character. My antecedents were looking forward to the figs when the tree came into season and this is the reason some of them went to Jerusalem a bit later to suggest that the Romans kill the bastard.

 

[Cainkane1]

A group of tombs with the names of Jesus, Mary, Joseph and Jesus brothers and sisters was discovered and excavted. If he came back from the dead why are his bones still around?

 

[Butter!]

A group of tombs with the names of Jesus, Mary, Joseph and Jesus brothers and sisters was discovered and excavted. If he came back from the dead why are his bones still around?

Really? Do you by any chance have a link for that story?

Not challenging you, just curious to read about it.

 

[dejudge]

I have read books where it is claimed Jesus transfigured, resurrected and ascended in a cloud.

Who thinks that those events are historical accounts and can be proven?

 

[Leumas]

Really? Do you by any chance have a link for that story?

Not challenging you, just curious to read about it.

See here.

 

[turingtest]

I have read books where it is claimed Jesus transfigured, resurrected and ascended in a cloud.

Who thinks that those events are historical accounts and can be proven?

What? Of course they're historical accounts of proven events! It's in the Bible and all! St Paul attested to it! And a bunch of other folks too! And I saw a movie about it on TV just the other night! Surely all that's evidence enough!

!

 

[Mindfull]

"resurrections" actually do happen even nowadays, people waking up after being put in the fridge.

I once saw a magician bring a fly back to life just by holding it in his cupped hands, turns out it had been in a fridge!

"Jesus hates Figs"

But he was quite easy going on lots of other things!

"Jesus was quite clear about the duties that slave owners owed to their slaves, and that did not include the duty to free them, even if they were Christians. Wherever the desire to free slaves came from it was not the Bible. Similarly the words of Jesus give no indication that women are to be afforded equal rights. There is also nothing in the words of Jesus about the virtues of a republic or democracy or a classless society. Jesus is silent about the dangers of imperialism or the intolerance of homosexuals. Jesus does not utter a single word to condemn polygamy or racism. Neither does he condemn socialism, communism, fascism, monarchism, aristocracy, the Roman occupation of Judea or even (directly and explicitly) the Roman Emperors' claims to divinity.

 

[dejudge]

What? Of course they're historical accounts of proven events! It's in the Bible and all! St Paul attested to it! And a bunch of other folks too! And I saw a movie about it on TV just the other night! Surely all that's evidence enough!

!

In the movie did Jesus resurrect with his SHROUD on?

I think it is claimed he resurrected and left the SHROUD behind.

Didn't they find the SHROUD in the empty Tomb?

 

[Butter!]

In the movie did Jesus resurrect with his SHROUD on?

I think it is claimed he resurrected and left the SHROUD behind.

Didn't they find the SHROUD in the empty Tomb?

So what?

The SHROUD, like Jesus, his tomb, and his resurrection, is fiction.

 

[turingtest]

In the movie did Jesus resurrect with his SHROUD on?

I think it is claimed he resurrected and left the SHROUD behind.

Didn't they find the SHROUD in the empty Tomb?

The Shroud! That's right, I forgot about the Shroud, the Blessed Shroud! Thanks for reminding me! What more evidence do you need! He rose and left his Risen figure there for all to see who will open their eyes! You cannot deny The Riz!

!
!

 

[dejudge]

The Shroud! That's right, I forgot about the Shroud, the Blessed Shroud! Thanks for reminding me! What more evidence do you need! He rose and left his Risen figure there for all to see who will open their eyes! You cannot deny The Riz!

!
!

Jesus must have resurrected because no Christian would have made up a story about a resurrected NAKED Messiah and a Empty Tomb.

By the way, Jesus wants to get back his Shroud from Turin. He needs it to prove to God he was Crucified and was buried.

 

[turingtest]

Jesus must have resurrected because no Christian would have made up a story about a resurrected NAKED Messiah and a Empty Tomb.

By the way, Jesus wants to get back his Shroud from Turin. He needs it to prove to God he was Crucified and was buried.

Well, certainly no True Christian would have lied about such a thing! And since all the early Christians were by definition True Ones, that just proves, ergo propter quod erat sic cum laude, that the Riz must be Real! There will be Dancing In The Streets! (For all but the doubters, of course...for you, there will be only Grovelling In The Mud!)

ETA- Ha!

 

[Butter!]

So... naked mud wrestling forever with all the other sinners? Sign me up!

 

[turingtest]

So... naked mud wrestling forever with all the other sinners? Sign me up!

I didn't say anything about naked! Not for the Mud Wrestlers! You guys will be wearing hair shirts! And hair...things...on your privates! And there will be biting maggots and so forth in the Unholy Mud! Real Third Circle stuff! So I repeat- Ha!

This is all so going to AAH, isn't it?

 

[Butter!]

I didn't say anything about naked! Not for the Mud Wrestlers! You guys will be wearing hair shirts! And hair...things...on your privates! And there will be biting maggots and so forth in the Unholy Mud! Real Third Circle stuff! So I repeat- Ha!

This is all so going to AAH, isn't it?

See, if the door-to-door proselytizers showed up one day with this as their sales pitch, they'd have me signed up in 2 shakes of a lamby's tale. They're going about their presentation all wrong.

Marketing is tricky, I realize that. But they should be more receptive to feedback!

 

[Slowvehicle]

I didn't say anything about naked! Not for the Mud Wrestlers! You guys will be wearing hair shirts! And hair...things...on your privates! And there will be biting maggots and so forth in the Unholy Mud! Real Third Circle stuff! So I repeat- Ha!

This is all so going to AAH, isn't it?

I don't remember you being at my last party...