Explosion at the Boston Marathon.

Yes, a life sentence in Supermax would be hell, but that's almost surely where he'll end up. He falls into the category of prisoners who are too notorious or dangerous to be housed elsewhere. For one thing, he wouldn't last a day in a prison's general population, so his own notoriety alone ensures near-complete isolation. Even if that were not a factor, the nature of his crime and its terroristic nature would likely be enough to send him to supermax.

He's doomed.

Yup, Tsarnaev is a perfect fit for Florence........

Basically, Florence is Alcatraz on Steroids. It is was Alcatraz was supposed to be but never really was: the ulitmate camp for "Bad Boys" in the Federal system.
 
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Penalty phase to come. Should the jury consider that imposing the death penalty will turn him into a martyr in some circles? It will be interesting to see if the judge mentions whether that is a valid issue to consider in their deliberations.
 
Both sides will present their reasons why they think the death penalty is appropriate or not. The prosecution will make its case and the defense will try and present mitigating factors. From the previous link:
Having finally dispensed with the question of guilt, the trial will now move quickly to the sentencing phase. In the sentencing phase, the same jury – seven women and five men – will hear more witness testimony to help them decide whether or not to sentence Tsarnaev to death. If they vote for death – a vote which must be unanimous – the 21-year-old bomber will be transferred to a federal facility in Terra Haute, Indiana, and eventually executed, though a lengthy appeals process is likely...The process of finding a jury took as long as it did partly because of the necessity of finding 12 jurors – and six alternates – who would be “death-qualified”, which is to say, neither implacably opposed to the death penalty nor wholeheartedly in favour.
 
Penalty phase to come. Should the jury consider that imposing the death penalty will turn him into a martyr in some circles? It will be interesting to see if the judge mentions whether that is a valid issue to consider in their deliberations.

For that circle, he'll be just as much a martyr in a cell as he will in a grave. Maybe more.
 
Penalty phase to come. Should the jury consider that imposing the death penalty will turn him into a martyr in some circles? It will be interesting to see if the judge mentions whether that is a valid issue to consider in their deliberations.

This should absolutely be a consideration, as far as I'm concerned. I for one want him to rot in supermax for the rest of his miserable life.

For that circle, he'll be just as much a martyr in a cell as he will in a grave. Maybe more.

Errr, no... Muslim extremists are not considered martyrs unless they are killed in a glorious fight against the infidel, or in this case put to death by them because they killed or maimed a lot of infidels. Being imprisoned in supermax, where he will be isolated from all human contact save the ten or so minutes a day when he sees a guard taking him to and from his exercise turn, is in my opinion a much more vicious punishment, deserving of his actions that day.
 
This should absolutely be a consideration, as far as I'm concerned. I for one want him to rot in supermax for the rest of his miserable life.



Errr, no... Muslim extremists are not considered martyrs unless they are killed in a glorious fight against the infidel, or in this case put to death by them because they killed or maimed a lot of infidels. Being imprisoned in supermax, where he will be isolated from all human contact save the ten or so minutes a day when he sees a guard taking him to and from his exercise turn, is in my opinion a much more vicious punishment, deserving of his actions that day.

Good grief. Why not just draw and quarter him in the public square, and have done with it?
 
This should absolutely be a consideration, as far as I'm concerned. I for one want him to rot in supermax for the rest of his miserable life.



Errr, no... Muslim extremists are not considered martyrs unless they are killed in a glorious fight against the infidel, or in this case put to death by them because they killed or maimed a lot of infidels. Being imprisoned in supermax, where he will be isolated from all human contact save the ten or so minutes a day when he sees a guard taking him to and from his exercise turn, is in my opinion a much more vicious punishment, deserving of his actions that day.

I wasn't using the term martyr in the technical sense, but as a rallying cry for those who sympathized with his point of view. The Free Tookie Williams campaign, for example, seemed much more potent than anything currently associated with his name.

I wasn't commenting on which sentence would be most harsh, just my disagreement with the don't make him into a martyr argument.
 
This should absolutely be a consideration, as far as I'm concerned. I for one want him to rot in supermax for the rest of his miserable life.

Goodness, no, it shouldn't be a consideration, far as I'm concerned.

How other people will react to a sentence is irrelevant to what the right sentence is. We shouldn't avoid certain sentences just because they will make others mad, and we shouldn't avoid sentences just because others will make a martyr out of the condemned.
 
Goodness, no, it shouldn't be a consideration, far as I'm concerned.

How other people will react to a sentence is irrelevant to what the right sentence is. We shouldn't avoid certain sentences just because they will make others mad, and we shouldn't avoid sentences just because others will make a martyr out of the condemned.

Speaking from a national security perspective (can't help it; it's what I do for a living), it absolutely should. We have to weigh the benefits of removing one terrorist from the world entirely versus the likelihood that his death will spawn more terrorists willing to kill for their cause. In Tsarnaev's case, this is a very real concern. My personal dislike/hatred for the man aside, there is a distinct possibility that further atrocities could be committed and more extremists inspired to perform similar activities than there would be if the man were simply left to rot in prison for the rest of his life. Sentencing him to death would fire up the extremists and further enflame their rhetoric; if he's sentenced to life in prison, they'll be stirred up for a short time, but will forget about him in the face of other issues that will rise up to trump him.

Granted, the jury may not consider it in exactly those terms, but I still think that in this day and age everyone needs to be aware of how our actions as a nation will be perceived by countries that are our enemies, so they need to at least bear the consideration in mind.
 
Speaking from a national security perspective (can't help it; it's what I do for a living), it absolutely should. We have to weigh the benefits of removing one terrorist from the world entirely versus the likelihood that his death will spawn more terrorists willing to kill for their cause. In Tsarnaev's case, this is a very real concern. My personal dislike/hatred for the man aside, there is a distinct possibility that further atrocities could be committed and more extremists inspired to perform similar activities than there would be if the man were simply left to rot in prison for the rest of his life. Sentencing him to death would fire up the extremists and further enflame their rhetoric; if he's sentenced to life in prison, they'll be stirred up for a short time, but will forget about him in the face of other issues that will rise up to trump him.

Granted, the jury may not consider it in exactly those terms, but I still think that in this day and age everyone needs to be aware of how our actions as a nation will be perceived by countries that are our enemies, so they need to at least bear the consideration in mind.

With due respect, the jury should not consider any effects of the sentence, aside from its appropriateness for the crime being considered. Their sole job, at this point, is to ensure that the punishment fits the crime, that is, is just.

This task is, of course, difficult enough, but they will be given arguments from each side and instructions from the judge. They will not be given a crash course in international terror, the likely response of lone nuts, or anything similar. No one will testify about whether the death sentence is likely to result in more terrorist actions against the US. You are suggesting that they make a decision based on factors that they are ill-equipped to know.

Moreover, if we base our sentencing on the likely threat of violence from third parties, where should it end? If a motorcycle gang threatens violence unless its members receive lenient sentences, should the jury be informed and take that into account? Should the threat of violence alter our views of the appropriateness of a sentence?

It strikes me that the jury's task is difficult enough, and that the aim of both the jury and the system itself ought to be choosing an appropriate sentence as far as justice is concerned. If we instead take into consideration any potential threats as a result of the sentence chosen, we are merely ensuring that such threats are effective and encouraging their use hereafter.
 
With due respect, the jury should not consider any effects of the sentence, aside from its appropriateness for the crime being considered. Their sole job, at this point, is to ensure that the punishment fits the crime, that is, is just.

This task is, of course, difficult enough, but they will be given arguments from each side and instructions from the judge. They will not be given a crash course in international terror, the likely response of lone nuts, or anything similar. No one will testify about whether the death sentence is likely to result in more terrorist actions against the US. You are suggesting that they make a decision based on factors that they are ill-equipped to know.

Moreover, if we base our sentencing on the likely threat of violence from third parties, where should it end? If a motorcycle gang threatens violence unless its members receive lenient sentences, should the jury be informed and take that into account? Should the threat of violence alter our views of the appropriateness of a sentence?

It strikes me that the jury's task is difficult enough, and that the aim of both the jury and the system itself ought to be choosing an appropriate sentence as far as justice is concerned. If we instead take into consideration any potential threats as a result of the sentence chosen, we are merely ensuring that such threats are effective and encouraging their use hereafter.

This, so much. Very well said. If this issue should be considered at all, it certainly should not be the jury doing the considering. If anything, it should have been done by the government before deciding whether or not to pursue the death penalty against him. And it probably was. So that part is done and should play no role in the jury's deliberations.
 
This, so much. Very well said. If this issue should be considered at all, it certainly should not be the jury doing the considering. If anything, it should have been done by the government before deciding whether or not to pursue the death penalty against him. And it probably was. So that part is done and should play no role in the jury's deliberations.

We'll have to agree to disagree then.
 
Is the point not that an appropriate punishment should be meted out to the perpetrator? To him, the death penalty would be a reward to be welcomed, not a punishment at all.
 
Is the point not that an appropriate punishment should be meted out to the perpetrator? To him, the death penalty would be a reward to be welcomed, not a punishment at all.

Perhaps the effect on the perpetrator is a relevant consideration. I'm not altogether sure about that.

But, if the defense is actually representing Tsarnaev faithfully, then it seems he's trying to avoid the death penalty.
 
Perhaps the effect on the perpetrator is a relevant consideration. I'm not altogether sure about that.

But, if the defense is actually representing Tsarnaev faithfully, then it seems he's trying to avoid the death penalty.

Exactly. He is under no obligation to try to avoid the death penalty. Yet, that is exactly what he's doing. The only reasonable conclusion I can draw is that he doesn't want to be executed. If he were truly a "faithful jihadi" he would behave more like Timothy McVeigh did after the Oklahoma City bombing. Instead he's trying to weasel out of death by blaming his brother.

I truly do not understand where this idea comes from that "death would be a reward for him". If that's so, why doesn't he get on the stand and let everyone know he's glad for what he did and stands by his actions?

He's just a cowardly, craven murderer.
 

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