Merged Scientology in decline\High noon...

MG1962 said:
Not really - I think South Park's dealing with the organization was probably a more significant moment
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Yeah. The whole "This is what Scientologists actually believe" thing was pretty good.

But I guess explaining what Scientology does to its members to prevent them from, or punish them for, leaving is more likely to convince people to do anything other than laugh at the silliness.
 
ehcks said:
Yeah. The whole "This is what Scientologists actually believe" thing was pretty good.

But I guess explaining what Scientology does to its members to prevent them from, or punish them for, leaving is more likely to convince people to do anything other than laugh at the silliness.
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Well it probably does not matter much, the membership numbers are crashing world wide. In Australia for instance at the last census. There were three times as many identifying their religion as Jedhi as there were COS.
 
hgc said:
What ev's... The illusion of the immortality and ultimate return of the godhead figure is paramount. Your stinkin' facts are useless.
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I agree. The "Going Clear " doc showed part of DM's speech about Hubbard's death. He said that Hubbard had finished his research and reached an even higher OT level, that his body wasn't needed anymore. So, LRH is still out there in some form. It isn't shown in the doc, but the lawyer who oversaw LRH's cremation followed DM. He said that LRH's body could have easily sustained him for a much longer time. However, LRH chose to leave it. It was a creepy presentation by the two of them.

Here is a YouTube clip of DM and the lawyer. It includes snarky subtitles added by the poster.
 
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I'm not a big fan of Scientologists. I wonder why they call themselves that anyway? They don't appear to be in the least bit scientific.
 
Jodie said:
I'm not a big fan of Scientologists. I wonder why they call themselves that anyway? They don't appear to be in the least bit scientific.
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Marketing. If they can self present as having some factual basis, it is easier to lure in the unwary having a veneer of reality and respect simply by having "science" in the name. They couldn't even manage to get the whole word in, just enough to sucker the gullible.
 
Jodie said:
I'm not a big fan of Scientologists. I wonder why they call themselves that anyway? They don't appear to be in the least bit scientific.
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They really only began to identify themselves as a church once the tax battle began. Prior to that they did have a scientific veneer to their activities
 
FenerFan said:
I agree. The "Going Clear " doc showed part of DM's speech about Hubbard's death. He said that Hubbard had finished his research and reached an even higher OT level, that his body wasn't needed anymore. So, LRH is still out there in some form. It isn't shown in the doc, but the lawyer who oversaw LRH's cremation followed DM. He said that LRH's body could have easily sustained him for a much longer time. However, LRH chose to leave it. It was a creepy presentation by the two of them.

Here is a YouTube clip of DM and the lawyer. It includes snarky subtitles added by the poster.
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Not say that someone's set of category definitions is proof of reality, but it is worth noting that when scholars list the common characteristics that define cults, a living, charismatic leader is usually on the list. And to sidestep the what-is-a-cult quagmire, I would say that this characteristic can be found in all sorts of so-called new religious movements and similar type groups (and long established religions too!).

As with so many movements, Scientology's founder is imbued by himself and his followers with having special revealed knowledge that forms the basis of the sacred texts and rules for living, and also with some form of immortality. The faithful themselves are usually seeking immortality, and if it is not demonstrated in the person of the founder/spiritual avatar, then that's a fly in the ointment. Furthermore, the authority of the founder in the minds of the faithful is extended beyond his death if he is believed to not really have died.

This is why L. Ron Hubbard was said by Miscavige to have "dropped his body" and all the other nonsense. And this is why ISKCON ("Hare Krishna") literature never refers to founder Prabhupada in the past tense, even though he died in 1977. This is why Christ, in the body of Jesus of Nazareth, rose from his tomb and ascended to Heaven (an event marked by people strolling 5th Avenue wearing fancy hats, only yesterday as a matter of fact).
 
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Jodie said:
I'm not a big fan of Scientologists. I wonder why they call themselves that anyway? They don't appear to be in the least bit scientific.
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They claim that LRH invented his own science. You'll often hear them refer to "tech" as well. In their parlance, "tech" consists of actual practices, while "science" is their philosophies and beliefs.

Basically they repurpose regular English words to mean a new thing. It is completely self-consistent, but at odds with the way the rest of the English speaking world use the words.
 
Dumb idea to merge these threads. Please stop with the over-moderation. This ain't JREF anymore.
 
The thing I don't get is how scientology got a single follower. I mean really a 3rd rate(not even that) sci fi writer basically says' give me all your money,drop your friends and family,answer a load of embarassing questions,be talked to and be treated like dirt,play embarrassing sci-fi roleplay,get absolutely nothing in return AND when you don't feel awesome at the end of it its YOUR fault and he still got thousands of converts. I love sci-fi(and fantasy) but I know its not real. Scientologists must think dune is the equivalent of gibbons decline and fall or that captain kirk is Magellan for the space age. Personally I would rather cover myself in petrol and strike a match than be a scientologist it would hurt less ,be quicker and be a whole lot cheaper.
 
skeptichaggis said:
The thing I don't get is how scientology got a single follower. I mean really a 3rd rate(not even that) sci fi writer basically says' give me all your money,drop your friends and family,answer a load of embarassing questions,be talked to and be treated like dirt,play embarrassing sci-fi roleplay,get absolutely nothing in return AND when you don't feel awesome at the end of it its YOUR fault and he still got thousands of converts. I love sci-fi(and fantasy) but I know its not real. Scientologists must think dune is the equivalent of gibbons decline and fall or that captain kirk is Magellan for the space age. Personally I would rather cover myself in petrol and strike a match than be a scientologist it would hurt less ,be quicker and be a whole lot cheaper.
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The thing is that it does not start out by revealing all the nonsense you get as you rise through the Theatanic Levels. No scam ever reveals that it is a scam. First you get sucked in by the "intelligence test". The brainwashing follows.

As Jesus said, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free". Though today it's the Internet that says that. :cool:
 
skeptichaggis said:
The thing I don't get is how scientology got a single follower.
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Really?
Surely you understand that less than a fraction of one percent of the population knows as much about Scientology as you do. And surely you understand that less than five percent of the population has the means and desire to objectively check up on a church like Scientology before joining.

The CoS grew to its current size because so many people leap before they look. Add to that the difficulty the average adult has in understanding sunk costs. And add to that the difficulty the average adult has in admitting an expensive error. Personally, I am surprised that the CoS is losing power so quickly.
 
no more insane than any other religion

Xenu and the galactic federation is really no dafter than a talking snake,Muhammad's flying horse,reincarnation or hitching a lift on the hale-bop comet. The claim that anyone can fall for those scams is(I think,but I'm wrong more often than right) not entirely correct. Even when I was ten if someone had tried to tell me Asimov's the last question-one of my all time fav SciFi tales-was true and tried to sell me a religion based on it I would have ran and told my dad a weird scary man was talking to me.
 
I watched Going Clear over the weekend.

It didn't surprise me much, the "fair game" tactic has been well documented and the Co$ practices and tactics in dealing with critics is well known, but I had no idea how the Co$ went after the IRS during the tax exempt investigation - I wonder how the media would report on such a campaign today.

In watching it I did come to understand why two individuals I knew for many years that converted to Co$ don't want to have anything to do with me.
 
BStrong said:
I watched Going Clear over the weekend.

It didn't surprise me much, the "fair game" tactic has been well documented and the Co$ practices and tactics in dealing with critics is well known, but I had no idea how the Co$ went after the IRS during the tax exempt investigation - I wonder how the media would report on such a campaign today.

In watching it I did come to understand why two individuals I knew for many years that converted to Co$ don't want to have anything to do with me.
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I recommend reading the book very strongly. It has a lot of information they did not have have time for in the documentary.
I also recommend "Bold Faced Messiah" which goes into more detail about the life of Hubbard then "Going Clear" does.
 
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