• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Problems with the Solutrean hypothesis

Graham2001

Graduate Poster
Graham2001
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
1,771
I found this story on the Violent Metaphors blog (entry linked below) and thought it is worth bringing up, certainly the attached paper needs to be read to understand why the main piece of evidence claimed in support of the Solutrean hypothesis the 'Cinmar Point' turns out to have a non-existant chain of custody:

The idea that Native Americans had at least some ancestry from a trans-Atlantic migration has been around since the earliest days of American anthropology. The earliest proponents of this idea looked at the spectacular burial mounds and art from North America and insisted that they could not have been made by the ancestors of the indigenous (or as they put it, “primitive”) peoples they encountered.

...

In its modern iteration, this idea is known as the “Solutrean Hypothesis.” The Solutrean hypothesis claims that the Clovis people, the makers of the earliest known stone tools in the Americas, were the cultural and biological descendants of the Solutrean peoples of southwest coastal Europe.
Click to expand...

http://violentmetaphors.com/2015/03...that-native-americans-have-european-ancestry/
 
Graham2001 said:
I found this story on the Violent Metaphors blog (entry linked below) and thought it is worth bringing up, certainly the attached paper needs to be read to understand why the main piece of evidence claimed in support of the Solutrean hypothesis the 'Cinmar Point' turns out to have a non-existant chain of custody:



http://violentmetaphors.com/2015/03...that-native-americans-have-european-ancestry/
Click to expand...
It seems absurd to base such an exotic theory on a dredged-up stone point. Do we have human remains from the Clovis culture? If so, are genetic data available, and how do they compare with European examples from that period?
 
MG1962 said:
Genetic sampling suggests they came down the Bering Sea route

http://www.nature.com/news/ancient-genome-stirs-ethics-debate-1.14698
Click to expand...

I am not an expert, but my understanding is that it's a complex issue, and that there actually is a significant amount of evidence to support the notion that there were other types of people in the Americas prior to the arrival of the ancestors of what we think of as Native Americans. There have been many bones found that do not resemble those of the later Native Americans. Some seem Australoid in nature.

The most likely scenario is that the Asiatics who crossed the Bering Sea either interbred with the earlier people or wiped them out, or out-competed them for resources.

However, this does not mean the Soultrean hypothesis has any validity, because to the best of my knowledge, none of these remains seem to have a European origin.
 
well there were blue eye blond people in the northern far east
mound/graves have been found in china with their remains
so they did not have to come from europe
 
nota said:
well there were blue eye blond people in the northern far east
mound/graves have been found in china with their remains
so they did not have to come from europe
Click to expand...
Are you referring to the "Tokharians" of the Lop Nor region?
 
Whilst it is possible the Solutreans made it to the Americas,probably following the edge of the sea ice, there is no absolute proof that they did. The hypothesis is based on the similarities between Clovis points and Solutrean points and only that, as far as I know.
 
Doghouse Reilly said:
I am not an expert, but my understanding is that it's a complex issue, and that there actually is a significant amount of evidence to support the notion that there were other types of people in the Americas prior to the arrival of the ancestors of what we think of as Native Americans. There have been many bones found that do not resemble those of the later Native Americans. Some seem Australoid in nature.
Click to expand...

Agreed I was mainly referencing the Soultrean = Clovis element.

The most likely scenario is that the Asiatics who crossed the Bering Sea either interbred with the earlier people or wiped them out, or out-competed them for resources.
Click to expand...

Well for now the whole pre-clovis inhabitants is far from settled science. Just the sheer range of possible migration dates makes it hard to pin down what the eventual fate of these peoples was. And the possible link to Australoid origins would fit well with recent discoveries in Siberia.
 
Doghouse Reilly said:
I am not an expert, but my understanding is that it's a complex issue, and that there actually is a significant amount of evidence to support the notion that there were other types of people in the Americas prior to the arrival of the ancestors of what we think of as Native Americans. There have been many bones found that do not resemble those of the later Native Americans. Some seem Australoid in nature.

The most likely scenario is that the Asiatics who crossed the Bering Sea either interbred with the earlier people or wiped them out, or out-competed them for resources.

However, this does not mean the Soultrean hypothesis has any validity, because to the best of my knowledge, none of these remains seem to have a European origin.
Click to expand...

Well the problem with that is that these speculations that remains of people who do not have "Native American" features have been found is that they have often ignored that Native Americans are a varied population in the Americas and further re analysis of these finds usually ends up finding they fit within the parameters of "Native American" Also they seem to rely a stereotype of what Native Americans should look like.

For more see First Peoples in a New World, By David J. Meltzer, University of California Press, Los Angles, 2009.
 
I recently watched this documentary about this subject. I highly recommend it:


The Incredible Human Journey 5 The Americas - BBC Documentary
 
I now know for certain I am not fully awake right now - I read the title of the thread as :
Problems with the Soultrain hypothesis
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom