Michael Brown shooting II

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SG, why weren't you around to add all your deep insight while this finished unfolding? Why only stop by and blow the dust off a thread, just to simply spout long discounted information, as if it were going to be allowed to slide unnoticed?
Enquiring minds want to know.
 
I won't speak for SG, but I'll certainly say it again myself:

1) if the police had simply let the neighborhood protest and march, instead of acting like the worst-trained military in the western hemisphere, this would have quickly blown over - instead they decided to attack reporters, institute "five second" rules, and raid churches like Boko Haram members:

2: Once the lead prosecutor rent on radio and freely admitted to putting someone on the stand that he *knew* wasn't there, the entire process was shot dead. Any professional knows that you *never* admit to something that grossly unethical - and reallly, you don't do it in the first place.
 
Mumbles said:
I won't speak for SG, but I'll certainly say it again myself:
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You can speak for me as well, at least about this. Wilson may not have done anything illegal, but that doesn't excuse the greater context of systemic racism that is happening in Ferguson and, really, nation wide.
 
Upchurch said:
You can speak for me as well, at least about this. Wilson may not have done anything illegal, but that doesn't excuse the greater context of systemic racism that is happening in Ferguson and, really, nation wide.
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There is systematic racism nationwide?
 
Mumbles said:
I won't speak for SG, but I'll certainly say it again myself:

1) if the police had simply let the neighborhood protest and march, instead of acting like the worst-trained military in the western hemisphere, this would have quickly blown over - instead they decided to attack reporters, institute "five second" rules, and raid churches like Boko Haram members:
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That's some good looking hyperbole there. I even enjoyed the "Boko Haram", it's not at all ridiculous. Boko Haram dressed like clergy to kill 24 people, which is exactly the same as what the Ferguson police did. I mean, seriously, identical. You almost can't even tell the difference between the two, it's amazing! :rolleyes:

Mumbles said:
2: Once the lead prosecutor rent on radio and freely admitted to putting someone on the stand that he *knew* wasn't there, the entire process was shot dead. Any professional knows that you *never* admit to something that grossly unethical - and reallly, you don't do it in the first place.
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This has been explained so many times.

How come you have absolutely 0 issues with the other "witnesses" getting on the stand that were in support of Brown? You never mention them at all, even though they admitted to not seeing the events, repeating what they heard in the neighborhood, or outright lying. Why do you suppose that is? Why is the confirmation bias so excessive? Can you not make your point without using it? Do you just enjoy double standards? He stated he wanted full transparency and the "eyewitness" was shown to be an absolute liar in front of the GJ. He put everyone that gave a statement on the stand, that could be located and willing.

Lastly, and something certain people seem absolutely hell bent on ignoring, is that the DoJ did a report as well. The Grand Jury wasn't the only option for charges being brought against Wilson. That report found the same damn thing the Grand Jury did, that there was no wrongdoing and the Wilson wasn't to face any charges. The fact that these "complaints" are still being brought up like they mean anything is just evidence that once people have made up their mind there is nothing that can change it. The exact polar opposite of critical thinking, being unable to leave ones preconceived decision in light of factual evidence.
 
plague311 said:
That's some good looking hyperbole there. I even enjoyed the "Boko Haram", it's not at all ridiculous. Boko Haram dressed like clergy to kill 24 people, which is exactly the same as what the Ferguson police did. I mean, seriously, identical. You almost can't even tell the difference between the two, it's amazing! :rolleyes:



This has been explained so many times.

How come you have absolutely 0 issues with the other "witnesses" getting on the stand that were in support of Brown? You never mention them at all, even though they admitted to not seeing the events, repeating what they heard in the neighborhood, or outright lying. Why do you suppose that is? Why is the confirmation bias so excessive? Can you not make your point without using it? Do you just enjoy double standards? He stated he wanted full transparency and the "eyewitness" was shown to be an absolute liar in front of the GJ. He put everyone that gave a statement on the stand, that could be located and willing.

Lastly, and something certain people seem absolutely hell bent on ignoring, is that the DoJ did a report as well. The Grand Jury wasn't the only option for charges being brought against Wilson. That report found the same damn thing the Grand Jury did, that there was no wrongdoing and the Wilson wasn't to face any charges. The fact that these "complaints" are still being brought up like they mean anything is just evidence that once people have made up their mind there is nothing that can change it. The exact polar opposite of critical thinking, being unable to leave ones preconceived decision in light of factual evidence.
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Should be the final post in this dismal thread.
 
Mumbles said:
I won't speak for SG, but I'll certainly say it again myself:

1) if the police had simply let the neighborhood protest and march,.
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And by "protest and march" you are talking about the looting and burning, right?
 
WildCat said:
And by "protest and march" you are talking about the looting and burning, right?
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Or just protest:

'Despite these lawsuits, it appears that FPD continues to interfere with individuals’ rights to protest and record police activities. On February 9, 2015, several individuals were protesting outside the Ferguson police station on the six-month anniversary of Michael Brown’s death. According to protesters, and consistent with several video recordings from that evening, the protesters stood peacefully in the police department’s parking lot, on the sidewalks in front of it, and across the street. Video footage shows that two FPD vehicles abruptly accelerated from the police parking lot into the street. An officer announced, “everybody here’s going to jail,”causing the protesters to run. Video shows that as one man recorded the police arresting others, he was arrested for interfering with police action. Officers pushed him to the ground, began handcuffing him, and announced, “stop resisting or you’re going to get tased.” It appears from the video, however, that the man was neither interfering nor resisting. A protester in a wheelchair who was live streaming the protest was also arrested. Another officer moved several people with cameras away from the scene of the arrests, warning them against interfering and urging them to back up or else be arrested for Failure to Obey.'
 
WildCat said:
Let's stay on point, it began as looting and burning not the "marching and protesting" Mumbles claimed.
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Ferguson: timeline of events since Michael Brown's death
St Louis County Police hold a press conference in which they claim Brown was killed because he was reaching for the officer's gun. Police refuse to name the officer involved in the shooting.Meanwhile, demonstrators gather at a makeshift memorial near the spot where Brown was killed and his parents hire attorney Benjamin Crump, who also represented the family of Trayvon Martin, a black teen killed in a high-profile shooting last year in Florida.That night violence begins with looting at local businesses and a heavy response from police in riot gear.
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Ferguson riots: Timeline of events after the death of Michael Brown
AUG. 10 — After a candlelight vigil, people protesting Brown’s death smash car windows and carry away armloads of looted goods from stores.
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Looting Erupts After Vigil for Slain Missouri Teen Michael Brown
The tensions erupted after a candlelight vigil Sunday night for 18-year-old Michael Brown, who police said was shot multiple times the previous afternoon after a scuffle involving the officer, Brown and another person in Ferguson, a predominantly black suburb of the city.
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It did not begin as looting and burning, unless you count the burning candles.
 
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If I am not mistaken, which is possible, Mumbles has been saying the peaceful protestors were attacked by police which led to the violence and looting. Your snippets have the peaceful protests then the looting/riots without the police attacking the peaceful protestors first. At least that is the vibe I got.
 
Wolrab said:
If I am not mistaken, which is possible, Mumbles has been saying the peaceful protestors were attacked by police which led to the violence and looting. Your snippets have the peaceful protests then the looting/riots without the police attacking the peaceful protestors first. At least that is the vibe I got.
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No. No one said anything about attacking. There is, however, no question that the police harassed the people and eventually reporters in ways that were found unconstitutional. Their actions certainly activated the citation, as did the FPD's long history of systemic racism.
 
Mike! said:
SG, why weren't you around to add all your deep insight while this finished unfolding? Why only stop by and blow the dust off a thread, just to simply spout long discounted information, as if it were going to be allowed to slide unnoticed?
Enquiring minds want to know.
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I'm writing a novel. I took a break from the forum to get more done on it.

As for discounted evidence, five eye witnesses vs one recognized fabricator doesn't sound discounted to me.

I don't care that you don't believe the witnesses and the location/angle of the kill shot. There was no trial. There was a one sided Grand Jury and a federal prosecutor who said he couldn't prove racism/denial of civil rights.

How is that exonerated?

Did you see the latest cop murder on the news this week? What is with the easily disproved assumption cops don't negligently or purposefully kill people?
 
plague311 said:
....How come you have absolutely 0 issues with the other "witnesses" getting on the stand that were in support of Brown? You never mention them at all, even though they admitted to not seeing the events, repeating what they heard in the neighborhood, or outright lying. Why do you suppose that is? Why is the confirmation bias so excessive? ...
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This is nothing but the result of a one sided questioning on the stand which was clear from the GJ testimony.

I've been paying attention as much as you have. I found the witnesses that said he was trying to surrender credible. No eye witness is perfect. But five people not only saw a similar thing, the kill shot is consistent with those witnesses.

What prosecutor that wasn't completely biased would have let that one women testify who wasn't there? How corrupt is that?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
This is nothing but the result of a one sided questioning on the stand which was clear from the GJ testimony.
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:rolleyes:

Skeptic Ginger said:
I've been paying attention as much as you have. I found the witnesses that said he was trying to surrender credible.
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Of course you do, that's called confirmation bias. I was mentioning that in the part you quoted. Did you see it? I can go back and hilite it for you if you'd like. You believe that because you already believe Brown was innocent and nothing will change your mind.

Skeptic Ginger said:
No eye witness is perfect.
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Especially the 5 that you said, they admitted to lying.

Skeptic Ginger said:
But five people not only saw a similar thing, the kill shot is consistent with those witnesses.
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I disagree the kill shot is consistent. It might be in your mind, but several professionals have examined the evidence that disagree with you. Considering they are paid professionals that do this type of work for a living, I am going to completely disregard what you say and replace it with reality.

Also, read the evidence again. Those 5...the reason their stories matches is because they discussed them together. Some of them admitted they weren't there, others admitted they got the story from around the neighborhood.

Skeptic Ginger said:
What prosecutor that wasn't completely biased would have let that one women testify who wasn't there? How corrupt is that?
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You're basically implying the DoJ is corrupt, so when you can provide evidence that the DoJ is corrupt, get back to me. Remember, there wasn't just the grand jury investigation, there was also the Federal investigation. You're basically saying that both of those investigations were wrong.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
This is nothing but the result of a one sided questioning on the stand which was clear from the GJ testimony.

I've been paying attention as much as you have. I found the witnesses that said he was trying to surrender credible. No eye witness is perfect. But five people not only saw a similar thing, the kill shot is consistent with those witnesses.

What prosecutor that wasn't completely biased would have let that one women testify who wasn't there? How corrupt is that?
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The Department of Justice doesn't agree with you.
ii. Witnesses Consistent with Prior Statements, Physical Evidence, and Other Witnesses Who Inculpate Wilson

There are no witnesses who fall under this category.
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Page 36
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/04/politics/document-justice-department-brown-shooting/
 
Wolrab said:
If I am not mistaken, which is possible, Mumbles has been saying the peaceful protestors were attacked by police which led to the violence and looting. Your snippets have the peaceful protests then the looting/riots without the police attacking the peaceful protestors first. At least that is the vibe I got.
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This is one of the basics of crowd control. So long as the police act reasonably, the crowds will march around and clap, put up a memorial, and then calm down. The sad fact is, we're not even surprised when the cops ask a black guy for ID, and then shoot him when he reaches for his ID. But when you're pointing guns at people, and bringing out snarling dogs *before* any protests start, and then wreck whatever memorial the locals set up, the way the Ferguson area police are documented to have done beginning on the same day Brown was killed, you have now invited a violent response. And that's why I keep saying they changed the game. Lets people walk around yelling "No Justice, no peace!", and things are fine. Raid churches and tear-gas people in their own backyards, and you get major rallies, and handfuls of clowns yelling about how they want "dead cops!"

And that's before we get to the photos of the supposed "rioters and looters" protecting stores, while the same police acting like poorly-trained military in broad daylight were nowhere to be seen....
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
That ignores the 5 eye witnesses. Prosecutors often make decisions not to prosecute because there isn't a strong enough case, not because there is no evidence. The DoJ had a different case to prove, that Wilson's racism was the motivation. That's different from, the cop kept shooting as the suspect was trying to surrender.

I have been paying attention, to the case, not to opinions in the thread.
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You clearly didn't read the DOJ report, because if you had, you would know that it exonerated him fully. And you would know that witness 40 (the racist white woman you refer to) was included in the list of "witnesses who were not credible".

I'll quote the relevant sections

"The evidence establishes that the shots fired by Wilson after Brown turned around were in self-defense"

Page 82

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/do...ce-report-on-the-michael-brown-shooting/1436/
 
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