Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[carbonjam72]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. OTOH, it could all just be a coincidence.

Yup, but then every link in the logical chain has to be also coincidental. It's an art form to discriminate between paranoia and legitimate conspiracy. All I can say is, kids, don't try this at home.

 

[lonepinealex]

Maybe the proximity of cases is to do with Italian courts being total part timers and only working at certain times of the year?

 

[acbytesla]

If you had proof - certainty - of Harry Rag's identity, would you reveal it?

I would. Harry Rag was maybe the worst of the guilters. People are and should be allowed to have andon't express their own opinions. But they should never be able to practice that maliciously. Rag constantly went beyond expressing a viewpoint. It was hate speech and had a total disregard for the facts.

 

[carbonjam72]

Maybe the proximity of cases is to do with Italian courts being total part timers and only working at certain times of the year?

Micheli waited 1 year to write his motivation report (dismissing the Florence 20 Narducci trail case) until 3 months after Hellman delivered his motivation report for acquittal. So the 2 motivation reports were filed within 90 days of each other. Weird that Micheli took one year to file a motivation report when normally due in 90 days, and it clocked in at around 925 pages (IIRC). This was where Micheli rejected the Narducci trail case.

Burlesconi's acquittal on appeal happened last summer 2014 (June?, IIRC), and Nencini's motivation report came out in maybe April 2014? SO not too far separate in terms of time.

Burlesconi's cassation appeal confirmed acquittal only a week before last. Plus positive TV blitz on Raf on state owned TV, including Dr Gill, plus Rudy gets another 18 months tacked onto his sentence?

Yes, could also just all be coincidence. Seems like a lot of relevant info, of all the same people, at the same time, moving in a similar direction. My imagination? sure, may well be. But I made a prediction based on this reasoning. Could all be an illusion of wishful thinking, yes, absolutely.

Here's another prediction: Mignini is toast. The whole point of this exercise is to remove Mignini from power, without upsetting the now settled MOF convictions of Vanni and Lotti. Mignini will be removed from office over his investigation of Amanda and Raf. But his true crimes are over the larger hoax regarding the Narducci trail, and that's the reason he found it convenient to frame Amanda and Raf - he needed a girl for his satanic orgy scenario.

So long as Mignini had the power to investigate and try cases, they couldn't get rid of him. Once he accepted his "promotion" he lost the last bit of leverage he had over the judiciary. And now he's at the mercy of his colleagues, all of whom maneuvered him into this position of vulnerability in the first place. Way I see it, Mignini is finished. And he will see it, and decry it as a "betrayal". Look out for this Mignini quote in the press (referring to himself in 3rd person): "But Mignini was betrayed!"

I think Mignini was simply out-maneuvered, and they took advantage of his limitless ability to believe his own bologna, thinking that he had "earned his promotion". (in the US we call this failing up). He accepted his promotion thinking his higher status would protect him. His shock over this verdict says it all. he thought he was/is untouchable, and that his colleagues would protect him no matter what. I suspect he is in for a rude awakening, and it will happen at Raf's Honor Bound trial.

Ok, I'm done. Can't wait for happy hour.

 

[acbytesla]

Yup, but then every link in the logical chain has to be also coincidental. It's an art form to discriminate between paranoia and legitimate conspiracy. All I can say is, kids, don't try this at home.

Mere timing alone doesn't mean there is a chain or link between the events. Hopefully, it is more science than art.

 

[js202]

No, I don't like it either. I think it's perfectly legitimate to discuss (and critique) their views and arguments about this case, and to criticise their hate/vindictiveness/nastiness etc where it occurs.

But I'm very opposed to this sort of approach of a form of "rogues' gallery", particularly where it's clearly involved an element of delving into those people's personal details.

It equates to stooping to their level. It was a long time coming, but, in the final end, the results speak for themselves. Presumably part of these crazies' complex is that they *enjoy* the attention; so, with the exception of those who require the *FBI's* attention, let them now rot on the vine in obscurity.

 

[acbytesla]

How does he get to that number? Massei is what, 8? Nencini another 8? I make that 16. Is he perhaps counting Matteini, Micheli and Chieffi none of whom found them guilty. And what a stupid point anyway. It's like the occasional claim that a majority in Italy think they're guilty. So what? Maybe a PGP can help me with the maths here.

It's really like someone declaring they won a basketball game because they were leading in the first half. Never mind that they were beat by a last second buzzer beater. It is revisionist history. Someone needs to remind him that it is the score at the end of the game that counts.

 

[carbonjam72]

Mere timing alone doesn't mean there is a chain or link between the events. Hopefully, it is more science than art.

Timing, content, direction.

Who, what, when, where, why & how.

When everything lines up, then you MAY have something. The more thesis criteria that line up, the more confidence I get for digging deeper for more info. But being open to contradictory info, knowing what to look for to disprove your thesis is indispensable - otherwise there's no off switch, it just becomes an endless descent into a morass of detail, the province of a true paranoid schizo. As I say, kids, don't try this at home.

Did you ever see a Korean movie called, "The Mad Detective"? Thought that was hilarious.

 

[Dougm]

Sorry, but I don't know more.

I was expecting the court to confirm the guilty verdicts. My thinking was, ok, this very court overturned the acquittal and sent the case back with instructions to convict. Now they have gotten what they asked for, so they will probably accept it.

At the same time, I was not surprised when they rendered the verdict they did. Accepting Nencini's decision, and his execrable report, would not exactly resolve matters, eh? Then they would have had to arrest Raffaele and cart him off to prison, even though nobody cares about him, whereas Amanda, the target of their obsession, would remain free. They would have had to subject their whole rotten process to a peer review by a US court if they even tried to get her back. That would have sucked for them, and they would have lost.

It really made sense to for them to face reality and put a stop to the bleeding. It was truth, justice and self-interest in the stroke of a pen - at the cost of pissing off lots of people inside their system.
So, I honestly did not know what to expect on Friday. Amanda and her family didn't know, either. They don't know the bureaucratic thinking behind the verdict any more than we do. What we all know is that she and Raffaele are completely innocent, so the verdict was correct.

Completely agree. I just thought that made sense at least two years ago. Makes me wonder if the unexpected twist was when the first ISC panel overturned Hellmann.

Did someone somewhere say at that point, "damn it! We tried to get rid of this mess, and they kept it going, and doubled down!! Now what?" Probably not that simple, but I have kept wondering if they were ever going to come to their senses. This was never going to end well for Italy.

 

[Dougm]

What.
They have She has escaped any further punishment for the murder of Meredith Kercher and you guys still aren’t happy.

Suing the pants off everyone Let’s see how keen Knox is to take on a UK publication, for example, in a civil trial.

But how about a compromise. If you can produce a ‘LEAVE AMANDA ALONE’ YT video at least as impressive as the ‘Britney’ original then I will give you a solemn undertaking;
That I will never refer to her as a ‘Skanky sex killer from Seattle’.
& If anyone else ever does I shall be very cross.

Deal?

How about this. You agree to stop posting obnoxious, useless posts like this one, and we will agree to not ridicule you for them. Deal?

 

[acbytesla]

Another interesting insight into pro-guilt logic, this time from "Thoughtful":

Richard thinks, like Greggy, that the DNA evidence should be discounted. Though I don't agree, I do accept that as a premise since like most people here I believe that the evidence is strong even without the DNA.

The inference here is absolutely clear. The use of the word "since" shows that "Thoughtful" is basing her acceptance of a) the idea that the DNA evidence in the case is worthless on b) the separate factor of whether there is (in her view) other strong evidence of guilt. It implies, in other words, that had there been no other "strong" (in her view) evidence, this would have changed the way she viewed the DNA evidence, to the degree that she would not have been prepared to accept the premise that it was flawed and inadmissible.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is a pretty good definition of irrational, unsceptical thinking. However one considers the value of the DNA evidence, it should not in any way be contingent upon whether or not one thinks there is other strong evidence of guilt. I'm still a touch shocked at the heavy irony of this view of "Thoughtful" being written in the context of the organisation of an academic conference on the role of mathematics in forensic science.............

"Thoughtful" makes an interesting case study, Here is a woman of higher than average intelligence who became entrenched in her own position to the point of ignoring and dismissing more cogent explanations. I do not doubt her qualifications as a mathmetician. That said, she closed her mind to science. Why? Was it the echo chambers of pm etc. That caused her failure in logic?

 

[Bill Williams]

Yes, well, what those people don't realize is that their websites continue to host and thus post all of the actionable statements that have bee published in the past. They are being republished all the time by virtue of the continued accessibility of the old posts on the websites.

I predict that the Sollecitos will have PMF shut down within a month and Rome-based Clander brought up on charges. If Carbonjam agrees, then I think my prediction is probably accurate; however, Bill, if you agree then I may need to rethink things.

Go ahead mock me. See if I care! Between me and pistol Pete, nary a correct prediction. I guess I'm known by the company I keep.

Why did it hafta be Quennell?

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

That can't be stressed enough. I'm sure the youtube video in which an attorney and a police officer explain why has been posted here before, but it's worth mentioning again.

Do not ever talk to police. Just don't.

Serious question: does this advice apply to all encounters with police? What about, for example, if police are going door to door canvasing a neighborhood to see if anyone was a witness or saw anything relevant to a crime being investigated? Asking, for example, if you saw anything suspicious? Should one "lawyer up" before cooperating?

Again, I'm not playing devil's advocate. It's a serious question.

 

[Grinder]

Nice, nice, very nice.

The Fifty-third Calypso [ 2 ]
Oh, a sleeping drunkard
Up in Central Park,
And a lion-hunter
In the jungle dark,
And a Chinese dentist,
And a British queen--
All fit together
In the same machine.
Nice, nice, very nice;
Nice, nice, very nice;
Nice, nice, very nice--
So many different people
In the same device.

I was 100% sure the ISC would end this case but was off by 180 degrees on how.

I, as with most on both sides, await the motivations. Will digestion or dead cats be mentioned?

I continue to be entertained by the PGP's hypocrisy. While only being there for Meredith they compare Amanda to OJ and Casey Anthony not the killers of (positive adjective) Caylee or Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman - guess they aren't worth remembering.

Now that someone has posted pictures and names of PGP posters (trolls) I see the leader of the PMF pack of jackals whining about it, apparently forgetting their starting the practice, even naming people's place of employment so fellow jackals could contact their employers requesting job terminations.

Good news is that they will keep the site active for at least 3 more years. I join with those here that would like to see A & R take legal action in order to expose some of the more odious posters.

I also would like to see some more of the PGP here but perhaps it would be best after the motivations. They are saying that it wasn't an innocent verdict just not guilty. To those of them reading here it would still be great if they would come up with a timeline rather than the tired lies, staging and blood in the bathroom memes.

I'm looking for some help here in Seattle in building and setting up a dunking stool near Salties in West Seattle. There are a three PMF women I would like to take the test and I'm betting all of them would survive the plunge.

 

[anglolawyer]

*********** hell! Grinder's back. Yo bro'

 

[kwill]

Which makes that website seem even more pointless and vindictive.

Pointless, maybe. The implicit message is that open season on Knox and Sollecito and their families and their friends and their online supporters is over. People who have ruthlessly and gleefully attacked them, photographed them, and posted their personal information are being given notice that the cameras turn in both directions.

That doesn't seem completely pointless, given that the people in the images really have made it a sport to play with innocent peoples' lives, mostly for their own amusement and whatever gratification they found in their sealed echo chambers. The problem is that the people pictured won't get the message. They don't see what they've done as ugly, and they're not going to -- largely, imo, because they've spent years in said echo chamber. It's all lalalalala to them.

Vindictive, for sure. These are the faces of the brutal people who would have been screaming for blood in Salem, MA during the witch trials. It's satisfying to know that they're not anonymous. I live in Seattle, so I kind of do want to know what Ms. Ganong looks like, not because I want to do anything to her or say anything to her . . . it's more like the feeling you'd get from finally trapping a disgusting rat that had been living under your porch.

 

[Diocletus]

Nice, nice, very nice.

The Fifty-third Calypso [ 2 ]
Oh, a sleeping drunkard
Up in Central Park,
And a lion-hunter
In the jungle dark,
And a Chinese dentist,
And a British queen--
All fit together
In the same machine.
Nice, nice, very nice;
Nice, nice, very nice;
Nice, nice, very nice--
So many different people
In the same device.

I was 100% sure the ISC would end this case but was off by 180 degrees on how.

I, as with most on both sides, await the motivations. Will digestion or dead cats be mentioned?

I continue to be entertained by the PGP's hypocrisy. While only being there for Meredith they compare Amanda to OJ and Casey Anthony not the killers of (positive adjective) Caylee or Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman - guess they aren't worth remembering.

Now that someone has posted pictures and names of PGP posters (trolls) I see the leader of the PMF pack of jackals whining about it, apparently forgetting their starting the practice, even naming people's place of employment so fellow jackals could contact their employers requesting job terminations.

Good news is that they will keep the site active for at least 3 more years. I join with those here that would like to see A & R take legal action in order to expose some of the more odious posters.

I also would like to see some more of the PGP here but perhaps it would be best after the motivations. They are saying that it wasn't an innocent verdict just not guilty. To those of them reading here it would still be great if they would come up with a timeline rather than the tired lies, staging and blood in the bathroom memes.

I'm looking for some help here in Seattle in building and setting up a dunking stool near Salties in West Seattle. There are a three PMF women I would like to take the test and I'm betting all of them would survive the plunge.

Do you have a cite for that?

 

[Diocletus]

I live in Seattle, so I kind of do want to know what Ms. Ganong looks like, not because I want to do anything to her or say anything to her . . . it's more like the feeling you'd get from finally trapping a disgusting rat that had been living under your porch.

And we all know what you do about a rat: you fix da rat.

 

[sept79]

.
.
.
Now that someone has posted pictures and names of PGP posters (trolls) I see the leader of the PMF pack of jackals whining about it, apparently forgetting their starting the practice, even naming people's place of employment so fellow jackals could contact their employers requesting job terminations.
.
.
.

Good of Grinder to remind us of some of the antics practiced by the jackals . . .

 

[carbonjam72]

Nice, nice, very nice.

The Fifty-third Calypso [ 2 ]
Oh, a sleeping drunkard
Up in Central Park,
And a lion-hunter
In the jungle dark,
And a Chinese dentist,
And a British queen--
All fit together
In the same machine.
Nice, nice, very nice;
Nice, nice, very nice;
Nice, nice, very nice--
So many different people
In the same device.

I was 100% sure the ISC would end this case but was off by 180 degrees on how.

I, as with most on both sides, await the motivations. Will digestion or dead cats be mentioned?

I continue to be entertained by the PGP's hypocrisy. While only being there for Meredith they compare Amanda to OJ and Casey Anthony not the killers of (positive adjective) Caylee or Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman - guess they aren't worth remembering.

Now that someone has posted pictures and names of PGP posters (trolls) I see the leader of the PMF pack of jackals whining about it, apparently forgetting their starting the practice, even naming people's place of employment so fellow jackals could contact their employers requesting job terminations.

Good news is that they will keep the site active for at least 3 more years. I join with those here that would like to see A & R take legal action in order to expose some of the more odious posters.

I also would like to see some more of the PGP here but perhaps it would be best after the motivations. They are saying that it wasn't an innocent verdict just not guilty. To those of them reading here it would still be great if they would come up with a timeline rather than the tired lies, staging and blood in the bathroom memes.

I'm looking for some help here in Seattle in building and setting up a dunking stool near Salties in West Seattle. There are a three PMF women I would like to take the test and I'm betting all of them would survive the plunge.

Hey Grinder! what's the latest? Any predictions for the motivation report?