Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Kauffer]

Ahhhh, .eughhh is back up. And some predictably disgusting remarks being posted there....

Oh look - here's one from the "decent and honorable" Yummi:

It's completely shameful. And I also think, if Amanda Knox was Italian, and she was not Andreotti, she would have been convicted for sure.

I think this reeks about political deal - maybe involving Paolo Antonio Bruno and his alleged strange connections - and the solution may lie in the omissis within the cables. I think the goverment didn't want a clash with the US, and made an exchange under the table.

I wonder when "Yummi" might show up here to explain this ludicrous new conspiracy theory further........

Of course there must have been a deal! That's the only way these people can rationalise this decision - a deal, political intrigue etc. Yummi was preparing the ground for an assault on Bruno on Wednesday. If today had gone his way, Bruno would have been exalted.

Yummi might be gone for good from here.

 

[Rolfe]

Yabbadabbadoooooooo!!!!!



I've not been on the forum recently, but I had to come back for this! (I did read the thread on Wednesday as well.)

I was convinced there would be a confirmation of the convictions. I was so shocked when Hellmann was overturned, I thought it impossible the Italian system would turn back from the road it was on. I felt so bad for Raffaele in particular.

When nothing had happened by eight o'clock GMT, I went out to a local drama production in the village hall. (It was great by the way.) I got back in about quarter past ten and I just couldn't believe it. The sense of relief is overwhelming.

Nearly four years ago, labouring under a misapprehension, I rashly predicted the Lockerbie conviction would be overturned before the Knox/Sollecito situation was favourably resolved. This very day, the High Court of Justiciary in Edinburgh kicked the current appeal application down the road again. http://lockerbiecase.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/sccrc-megrahi-petition-todays.html That fight goes on.

But this one, miraculously, has resolved.

Yabbadabbadoooooooo!!!!!!!

 

[TruthCalls]

The huge likelihood: Rudy Guede broke in through Romanelli's bedroom window at around 8.40pm (having cased the whole house and found it unoccupied, dark and quiet), with the aim of stealing money, electronic goods and other valuables. He closed the external shutters once he was inside, thus obscuring evidence of his break-in from anyone outside. He went for a wander round the cottage, drank some juice, and went to defecate in the large bathroom, in the belief that he had almost unlimited time in which to work.

While he was on the toilet, however, Kercher arrived home. Kercher locked the front door behind her, removing the key and retaining it (the door needed to be locked otherwise it would blow open owing to a broken latch, and the key needed to be removed from the door in order to make it possible for others to unlock it from outside if they came home). At this point, one of several different things could have happened. My best guess is that Guede tried to exit silently through the front door, but found it locked, and came face to face with Kercher at this point. Some sort of verbal altercations ensued, which then turned to physical, and then sexual violence, as Guede became aroused by the situation. He forced Kercher into compliance with his knife (perhaps telling her that if she did what he said and didn't call out or struggle, he'd treat her well and leave quietly....), then initiated a sexual assault with her on all fours and Guede behind her holding his knife at her neck. I think that Kercher may have struggled and screamed out at this point, causing Guede to inflict the knife wounds to the neck.

I think that all of this happened before 9.30pm. I think that Guede then stopped, in shock and horror, and spent some time trying to figure out what to do. In the end, he decided to wipe up some of the blood with towels from the small bathroom, and to clean the blood off his own hands and clothing. He left just after 10pm, taking Kercher's phones with him. After Kercher's UK phone rang out to indicate an incoming photo message at just after 10.15 - while Guede was on his way home outside the city walls - he decided just to dump the phones and threw them away (where they landed in MRs Lana's garden). Guede then got back to his apartment, composed himself, and went out clubbing into the centre of Perugia in a conscious attempt to construct some sort of alibi.

LJ, that's essentially my theory as well, however I believe the sexual assault continued after her throat was slashed. Aspirated blood droplets on otherwise clean skin of her breasts suggests to me that her bra was partially removed for much of the assault, but came off completely towards the end while she was still breathing. My theory is Guede freaked over the amount of blood and dragged Meredith from the initial pool of blood by her bra, causing the clasp to rip off. He likely continued the assault but could go no further than a digital penetration before what he did got to him. He covered her, went to the bathroom to clean blood off his pants leg, went back to her room, found her money and phones and left. He steps in blood on the way out, leaving a gradually faded trail to the front door. When he gets there he realizes he didn't grab her keys so he goes back to get them. He doesn't step in blood this time and as he leaves her room, keys in hand, he decides to lock the door to prevent her from quickly being discovered.

The entire crime is, sadly, rather common. ALL of the evidence points to a crime along these basic lines. I understand the Kercher's were duped by the prosecution and Maresca, but I wonder what it is with this theory that the Kercher's can't accept. Do they honestly think it would take more than Guede to kill Meredith without her sustaining substantial defensive wounds?

 

[Kauffer]

And here's that nasty little piece of work Hugo, managing to combine ex post facto rationalisation, pent-up rage, crazy conspiracy theorising and flat-out nastiness in one short post! Well done, Hugo!

Vergogna.

I was trying to signal it on Wednesday, but people didn't want to hear it. The bit I didn't mention was the president of the court illegally ticking off Meredith's family's lawyer for saying that Conti and Vecchiotti engaged in mystification. That kind of told you, really.

Before the last Cassation hearing I said that the court had to show whether Italy was, in fact, a duly organised polity under the rule of law, or merely a mafious conspiracy of interests.

They didn't actually decide the matter then, because they should have ended the case. With the appeal annulled, that should have been it. Instead, they redundantly sent it back round the houses, so as to favour their special white snowflakes just a little bit more, and a little bit more, and a little bit more...

Today, after a ridiculous interval, they decided the matter. Italy is not a duly organised polity under the rule of law. It just pretends to be. Not at all convincingly.

I genuinely think that some of these people are going to need some serious pills.

 

[carbonjam72]

I suspect that recordings of the interrogations were made but that police managers who were involved that evening and Mignini connived to deny it. If any of them retained a copy of the recordings, which probably would have been made in and retained as a digital file, they could destroy it to conceal their guilt. If others can get their hands on the file they can sell it to a media organization or publisher for a million Euros.

There is one place where such a file may exist. It could exist on a remote storage device, if the recording system at police headquarters automatically backed up files to a remote (off-site) storage device.

I would bet they still exist. Because if the dirt ever hits the fan, someone would want a get out of jail free card.

Maybe look in the same subdirectory as the animated cartoon that was such a big hit at the first trial?

 

[davefoc]

I just heard the news. A very good moment. My very best wishes to Knox and Sollecito. I am sorry I don't know them personally to tell them how happy I am for them.

It is also a good moment for those of us who had contemplated the likelihood that Sollecito would spend a good part of his life in jail for a crime he was completely innocent of and the considerable problems that might have befallen Knox if the conviction hadn't been overturned.

It was just a few days ago that a Knox story was posted on HuffingtonPost. I was happy to see that a significant majority of posters knew that she was innocent but the most prolific posters were two people that kept spamming the thread with cut and paste recitations of the routine list of bogus evidence that allegedly proved her guilt. Maybe somebody recognizes this guy: Gustavo J. Borujow. I was surprised that the mixed blood lie still had such strong followers. Borujow claimed to have some sort of great knowledge of the evidence and yet he repeated as fact one of he most egregious pieces of BS produced by the prosecution team.

This case really goes to just how easy it is for a whacko prosecutor to ruin people's lives. No matter what happens a significant number of people will never change their opinion regardless of new information that completely falsifies the original claims.

As a personal aside, my first post on my Google+ page was about this case:


From davefoc's Google+ page. It might not be that interesting so I put it in spoiler brackets to make it easy to skip over.

Hi,
This is my first intentional social media post to my page (My first actual post was a post I meant to make on Peter Dolan's page). I wasn't quite sure what the vast expanse of people that are following my musings would like to hear about. I think probably my first post should be on the up beat side, but I've decided to talk about something that bummed me out a couple of weeks ago, the wrongful conviction of Roberto Sollecito and Amanda Knox for the murder of Meredith Kercher.

If something like this can ever be known to certainty, it is certain that Sollecito and Knox are innocent. There is no reliable evidence against them, there is incontrovertible evidence against the man who actually committed the murder and they have a solid alibi for what can be shown to be the time of death. They were found innocent in the second of their three trials but in the Italian system it is possible for the supreme court to intervene and order another trial even after an acquittal..

They aren't the only people in history to experience malicious prosecution in the face of demonstrable innocence but I happened to be following their case and have come to know of them and it felt really bad to see two people near the beginning of their lives put through this kind of abuse for the sole purpose of protecting the egos of the Italian police and a prosecutor who instituted a prosecution against the pair based on the his crazy fantasies and a sycophant forensic technician who enabled him.

 

[carbonjam72]

Just to re-post what I asked a couple of pages back - what happens to the civil case now? Is that still going on? Are we going to have an O J Simpson-style rematch?

There' Mignini's case against Raf and Gumbel, Cops/Mignini? case against Amanda and separately her parents? Any others?

Poor Spezi is still twisting in the wind witgh Giuttari's fraudulent hoax, I believe.

Mach would know all this stuff.

 

[lonepinealex]

LJ, that's essentially my theory as well, however I believe the sexual assault continued after her throat was slashed. Aspirated blood droplets on otherwise clean skin of her breasts suggests to me that her bra was partially removed for much of the assault, but came off completely towards the end while she was still breathing. My theory is Guede freaked over the amount of blood and dragged Meredith from the initial pool of blood by her bra, causing the clasp to rip off. He likely continued the assault but could go no further than a digital penetration before what he did got to him. He covered her, went to the bathroom to clean blood off his pants leg, went back to her room, found her money and phones and left. He steps in blood on the way out, leaving a gradually faded trail to the front door. When he gets there he realizes he didn't grab her keys so he goes back to get them. He doesn't step in blood this time and as he leaves her room, keys in hand, he decides to lock the door to prevent her from quickly being discovered.

The entire crime is, sadly, rather common. ALL of the evidence points to a crime along these basic lines. I understand the Kercher's were duped by the prosecution and Maresca, but I wonder what it is with this theory that the Kercher's can't accept. Do they honestly think it would take more than Guede to kill Meredith without her sustaining substantial defensive wounds?

While I don't think the Kerchers have behaved honourably throughout this (and their "dignified silence" is a joke), I think we have to consider that the confirmation bias ordinary guilters suffer from is nothing compared to that of the Kerchers'.

Apart from the natural trust they'd have put in the Italian authorities and their lawyer, we've no reason to think they've studied this case as we or the guilters have. They may just want to close their minds to everything except what their lawyer tells them, because it's all too traumatic to delve into. I can understand that.

 

[NancyS]

My eyes are bleeding after having a look at PMF - they're even feeling sorry for Guede!

I doubt it will change very much in their weird little world - they'll still carry on being hateful about AK

 

[js202]

Many here seem to be giving Mach slack. I happen to remember all of the foul things he said about Amanda.

I give him no quarter, as he has given us. Sick and foul things have emitted from his pustulant consciousness these last years. Like Golem, I suspect we haven't seen the last of him; he's got too much invested in the obsession.

 

[Rolfe]

A percentage of the population just can't accept that the police and prosecutors can make mistakes. To them, the fact that someone is charged with a crime is equivalent to guilt.

That's been going on for two thousand years, and it's not going to change any time soon.

Easter next week. Read the script.

Pilate then went out unto them, and said, What accusation bring ye against this man? They answered and said unto him, If he were not a malefactor, we would not have delivered him up unto thee.

Seems to be the way a substantial proportion of the human race are wired up.

 

[anglolawyer]

Yo Rolfe! Hoots mon! Pity they got off without your digestion point (maybe it will be in the motivation).

LJ - we'll never know, of course, but I think there was no confrontation. He crept along the corridor and surprised her as she was taking off her shoes in her bedroom.

 

[Kaosium]

I spoke to Grinder just now and he is as happy as we are.

Just wanna say a word about my experience here since 2011 when I signed up way too late to make a difference. I am (believe it or not) a lawyer and not a bad one, though I say so myself. The education received here has made me a better one. I could wax for pages on what I've learned. There are some great people here but, for me, LJ and Kaosium have been awesome and I thank them for inspiring me to look closer and think better. Hats off to you two especially.

Hey! Where is Kaosium anyway?

I was here the whole time trying to find the appropriate song and then getting sidetracked listening to music and just enjoying the giddy afterglow.

Here's another song, in honor of Scrut who posted it to me last time he was in the thread. I never said anything but by coincidence that was probably my very favorite song when I was young and could still believe in things.

 

[Desert Fox]

I am not sure why there needs to be any big long motivation report. . . .The simple fact is that there is no solid evidence connecting either Amanda or Raffaele. Short and sweet.

 

[davefoc]

You guys are great. I had prepared myself for the worst. Just so happy this is over and the correct result was obtained.

Hi Rose, my sentiments exactly. You were very nice to me during the time of these threads and I hope we will meet someday.

-Dave

 

[Samson]

LOL! Not for me:

'You see me now a veteran of a thousand psychic wars
My energy is spent at last, and my armor is destroyed
I have used up all my weapons, and I'm helpless and bereaved
Wounds are all I'm made of
Did I hear you say that this is victory?'

Is that Pyrrhus?

 

[Rolfe]

Yo Rolfe! Hoots mon! Pity they got off without your digestion point (maybe it will be in the motivation).

LJ - we'll never know, of course, but I think there was no confrontation. He crept along the corridor and surprised her as she was taking off her shoes in her bedroom.

They didn't need the digestion point. There was no evidence of guilt in the first place. The digestion thing was just the point that made me absolutely certain they couldn't possibly have done it, as opposed to there simply being no reason at all to believe that they were.

 

[Planigale]

On the other hand there are some people I would happily put the boot into CaliDeeva on "Justice4ever" who I have had a few run ins under different names and who allows grossly misogynistic posts, Graham Rhodes who should have been charged with making threats, and the Machine for persistent lying.

 

[LondonJohn]

My eyes are bleeding after having a look at PMF - they're even feeling sorry for Guede!

I doubt it will change very much in their weird little world - they'll still carry on being hateful about AK

Michael seems desperate to convince himself and his cohort with the idea that "We know the truth. No court in the world can touch that." (The "truth" being that Knox and Sollecito really did participate in the murder, and that this "truth" survives the SC verdict).

And this is the rationalisation of ignorance, intellectual stunting, self-preservation and a dreadful unwillingness to look at things in a rational, impartial way.

I suspect that people such as Michael will never gain the foresight, objectivity or emotional detachment to realise that what they've been campaigning for so vehemently for all these years was just plain wrong. Just as the nutters claiming the World will end on a given date will always find an excuse and a reason when it gets to the day after that particular date.

Fortunately for us and for pretty much everybody, the views and prejudices of people such as Michael will be almost entirely ignored within days from now, once the discussion spike following the acquittals has gone down. And as I said before, it can only be hoped that he and those like him might perhaps stop and ask themselves some questions. I have my doubts that this will happen in most cases, unfortunately - I think these people have already demonstrated that they do not have, and will probably never have, the self-awareness and critical thinking abilities to figure out the situation properly.

 

[Strozzi]

The huge likelihood: Rudy Guede broke in through Romanelli's bedroom window at around 8.40pm (having cased the whole house and found it unoccupied, dark and quiet), with the aim of stealing money, electronic goods and other valuables. He closed the external shutters once he was inside, thus obscuring evidence of his break-in from anyone outside. He went for a wander round the cottage, drank some juice, and went to defecate in the large bathroom, in the belief that he had almost unlimited time in which to work.

While he was on the toilet, however, Kercher arrived home. Kercher locked the front door behind her, removing the key and retaining it (the door needed to be locked otherwise it would blow open owing to a broken latch, and the key needed to be removed from the door in order to make it possible for others to unlock it from outside if they came home). At this point, one of several different things could have happened. My best guess is that Guede tried to exit silently through the front door, but found it locked, and came face to face with Kercher at this point. Some sort of verbal altercations ensued, which then turned to physical, and then sexual violence, as Guede became aroused by the situation. He forced Kercher into compliance with his knife (perhaps telling her that if she did what he said and didn't call out or struggle, he'd treat her well and leave quietly....), then initiated a sexual assault with her on all fours and Guede behind her holding his knife at her neck. I think that Kercher may have struggled and screamed out at this point, causing Guede to inflict the knife wounds to the neck.

I think that all of this happened before 9.30pm. I think that Guede then stopped, in shock and horror, and spent some time trying to figure out what to do. In the end, he decided to wipe up some of the blood with towels from the small bathroom, and to clean the blood off his own hands and clothing. He left just after 10pm, taking Kercher's phones with him. After Kercher's UK phone rang out to indicate an incoming photo message at just after 10.15 - while Guede was on his way home outside the city walls - he decided just to dump the phones and threw them away (where they landed in MRs Lana's garden). Guede then got back to his apartment, composed himself, and went out clubbing into the centre of Perugia in a conscious attempt to construct some sort of alibi.

I agree with what you write until and including Rudy in the toilet and Meredith locking the front door and retaining the key with her. Rudy may have tried to sneak out the front door, but found it locked. I don't think they encountered each other in the living area. I think Meredith was in her room with her jacket still on at her bed when Rudy burst into her room and was on her in a second with his knife out. I don't see signs of a confrontation or struggle in the living room or even in the bedroom that suggests a struggle where furniture is used in an ongoing way to block him or protect herself. I think Meredith was taken by total surprise. He burst in on her, she stood up by her bed and turned, Rudy got behind her and put his knife to her throat. As she twisted, he sliced her in the throat. don't think she was driven down on all fours so Rudy could sexually violated her. He did not get her down on all fours for a sexual assault, she went down on all fours when he slit her throat.