Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[icerat]

So I think the calunnia conviction is crap as if AK was not present she could not know who was guilty.

What does the second part have to do with the calunnia conviction?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

tonight

The thought of Sollecito being hauled away to prison today for a quarter of a century for something he did not do was truly sickening. Amanda would have been free in Seattle for the present. Now both of them are free to get on with their lives without this huge shadow looming over them.

For the Kercher family, the worst possible thing that could ever happen to them already happened more than 7 years ago. I hope that one day, they can appreciate that Meredith's friend had nothing to do with her death, and had nothing but kind and friendly feelings for her.

Sonia,

I agree completely. A great burden has been lifted from two people who should not have had to bear it.

Chris

 

[carbonjam72]

Me too.

Come on Grinder, say hello.

 

[Strawberry]

I am not familiar enough with WM3, but the confession of Miskelly was extraordinarily detailed. Knox and Sollecito could be proved innocent extremely quickly with easily known information. I am in no way suggesting WM3 was remotely acceptable, but there seem to degrees of certainty with which miscarriages can be ascribed.

The details in Misskelley's confession were all wrong though. As someone who is familiar with the details of both cases I would say they are very similar and the degree of certainty of their innocence would be too.

 

[katy_did]

Oh, and I hope that Hellmann is perhaps sipping a quiet brandy or fine grappa tonight, with some small measure of satisfaction playing on his face.

Yep - I'm happy for Hellmann, Zanetti, the rest of their jurors and Conti and Vecchiotti. All vindicated.

 

[LondonJohn]

I spoke to Grinder just now and he is as happy as we are.

Just wanna say a word about my experience here since 2011 when I signed up way too late to make a difference. I am (believe it or not) a lawyer and not a bad one, though I say so myself. The education received here has made me a better one. I could wax for pages on what I've learned. There are some great people here but, for me, LJ and Kaosium have been awesome and I thank them for inspiring me to look closer and think better. Hats off to you two especially.

Hey! Where is Kaosium anyway?

Well thanks, but I think that it's unfair to single people out. I think that so many different people here contributed interesting, informative and articulate arguments to the debate. It made for a stimulating environment where I think many of us felt we were really getting somewhere in terms of reaching informed, impartial, rational conclusions. And that also of course includes the times when beliefs or pre-conceptions were challenged - that's healthy and proper if one is searching for the right conclusions.

Thanks to all, therefore. It's been truly a massive experience to learn, share, debate, discover, argue, and sometimes laugh, with almost everyone on this thread. (I now realise this is beginning to sound a bit like a valedictory post - it's not! )

 

[anglolawyer]

Haha no, I always know the truth

I had been refreshing my flipping twitter feed every 30 seconds all day! Eventually I logged in here to see if you good folk had any inside info.

You didn't.

I'm feeling quite emotional. I've been carrying the fight on this one on far less august forums than this, with poor results.

But now it matters not

well, better late than never. Nice to see you here and good that you are on the side of truth and justice, just as one would expect of an English barrister (as SS is folks).

 

[acbytesla]

I spoke to Grinder just now and he is as happy as we are.

Just wanna say a word about my experience here since 2011 when I signed up way too late to make a difference. I am (believe it or not) a lawyer and not a bad one, though I say so myself. The education received here has made me a better one. I could wax for pages on what I've learned. There are some great people here but, for me, LJ and Kaosium have been awesome and I thank them for inspiring me to look closer and think better. Hats off to you two especially.

Hey! Where is Kaosium anyway?

I agree clive. I have enjoyed your posts and you pms. Back to chess and football.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

I spoke to Grinder just now and he is as happy as we are.

Just wanna say a word about my experience here since 2011 when I signed up way too late to make a difference. I am (believe it or not) a lawyer and not a bad one, though I say so myself. The education received here has made me a better one. I could wax for pages on what I've learned. There are some great people here but, for me, LJ and Kaosium have been awesome and I thank them for inspiring me to look closer and think better. Hats off to you two especially.

Hey! Where is Kaosium anyway?

Yeah but me and Mary are more fun to hang around with!

 

[katy_did]

The details in Misskelley's confession were all wrong though. As someone who is familiar with the details of both cases I would say they are very similar and the degree of certainty of their innocence would be too.

I completely agree with you. The main difference between this miscarriage of justice and the WM3 case is that this one was resolved far more quickly (even if it still took longer than it should have). I don't think the WM3 were any more justifiably convicted than were Amanda and Raffaele.

 

[Strozzi]

Definitely - the family have been put through years of extra pain as this farce has dragged out. I hope they can find peace with the verdict

The Kercher family have put their daughter's housemate and housemate's then-boyfriend through great pain and suffering. Amanda was their daughter's friend and the Kercher family tasked their lawyer Maresca to intervene in the courts and to help convict and harm her.

 

[acbytesla]

Where is Rose? I would expect that she might drop by.

 

[Kauffer]

I would love to see the SC motivations report specifically refer to Stefanoni's incompetence, obfuscation, obstruction and repeated attempts to mislead and misdirect. I would like there to be a proper, impartial inquiry into the gigantic mess that was the forensic investigation in this case, and the (perhaps even less forgivable) way in which the courts acted to protect, and give undue deference to, the police's forensic scientists - with the result that junk evidence assumed an astonishingly improper level of credibility in the convicting courts.

I would also love to see the report drill down into the situation regarding the 5th/6th November interrogations. Again, I'd like to see a proper inquiry into what actually happened, and how the police and PM conspired to get a pre-determined result through a highly-choreographed routine which involved a conscious denial of rights.

Oh, and I hope that Hellmann is perhaps sipping a quiet brandy or fine grappa tonight, with some small measure of satisfaction playing on his face.

Absolutely agree with all this. Always eloquent.

 

[Samson]

Let's not get nationalist about this chaps! There is a rainbow of nations on this thread.

And some of them try to beat us at cricket.

 

[carbonjam72]

I disagree, I think Italy's justice system compares well to that of the USA. Compare the handling of this case, and the relatively short time frame of eight years, to the handling of the very similar wm3 case. Italy beats Arkansas for justice hands down.

This is probably true. We hear about wrongful convictions being overturned in decades, 18, 20, 30 years.

I'm not saying this process made sense. But Italy caught this mistake far more quickly then we in the US seem to catch ours.

Just so glad and relieved this is over. Good luck Amanda and Raf, wherever life takes you.

My condolences to the Kerchers.

And I have to ask, will Rudy Guede be prosecuted for Calunnia? Isn't lying about people you know are innocent exactly what that law was intended for?

Rudy Guede was adopted by family who loved him. He can't be all bad. I hope he finds the decency to tell the truth, and give the Kerchers the solace they need to accept that Amanda and Raffaele are truly innocent.

Don't get me started on Mignini, Stefanoni. Ficarra, Zugarini, Giobbi, and the rest of the keystone cops.

 

[Dougm]

Well thanks, but I think that it's unfair to single people out. I think that so many different people here contributed interesting, informative and articulate arguments to the debate. It made for a stimulating environment where I think many of us felt we were really getting somewhere in terms of reaching informed, impartial, rational conclusions. And that also of course includes the times when beliefs or pre-conceptions were challenged - that's healthy and proper if one is searching for the right conclusions.

Thanks to all, therefore. It's been truly a massive experience to learn, share, debate, discover, argue, and sometimes laugh, with almost everyone on this thread. (I now realise this is beginning to sound a bit like a valedictory post - it's not! )

I agree. One thing I have learned from this experience is how the internet now allows us to reach out and connect with so many intelligent people who have so many things to contribute, to this, or any discussion.

Of course, that is also a double edged sword, but this is a positive post, so I will not go there! I have enjoyed reading the posts of everyone and learning from all of you.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Where is Rose? I would expect that she might drop by.

She did, but the thread is going crazy at the moment

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Indeed she did

Where is Rose? I would expect that she might drop by.

Look upthread.

 

[TruthCalls]

I would love to see the SC motivations report specifically refer to Stefanoni's incompetence, obfuscation, obstruction and repeated attempts to mislead and misdirect. I would like there to be a proper, impartial inquiry into the gigantic mess that was the forensic investigation in this case, and the (perhaps even less forgivable) way in which the courts acted to protect, and give undue deference to, the police's forensic scientists - with the result that junk evidence assumed an astonishingly improper level of credibility in the convicting courts.

I would also love to see the report drill down into the situation regarding the 5th/6th November interrogations. Again, I'd like to see a proper inquiry into what actually happened, and how the police and PM conspired to get a pre-determined result through a highly-choreographed routine which involved a conscious denial of rights.

Oh, and I hope that Hellmann is perhaps sipping a quiet brandy or fine grappa tonight, with some small measure of satisfaction playing on his face.

I was just thinking of Hellmann. I'd be really interested to hear him respond to this verdict as it completely vindicates his court's findings. In fact, I'm wondering if Cassation will reference his court's opinion. Is it possible they came to this decision because Cassation's arguments for overturning Hellmann were invalid?

 

[carbonjam72]

Damn! This has got to be the worst possible decission. Years spent collecting sorting and analizing evidence in this case is suddenly moot. Now I have to start all over and find a life

Don't go yet brother, I have need of your wares.