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Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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FBI Profiler John Douglas on the case against Amanda Knox & Raffaele Sollecito

John Douglas speaking out a coupla years ago, worth a read!:

Unarresting the Arrested: FBI Profiler John Douglas on the case against Amanda Knox & Raffaele Sollecito

This article was originally supposed to be published for Il Messaggero. It was given to me as an assignment, after the editor and legal expert of the newspaper saw the Maxim interview with famed FBI profiler, John Douglas, in the January 2011 issue.

When the article was turned in, albeit shortened, my editor told me – “this article is too dangerous to print in Italy”.

So, for your reading pleasure, the article too dangerous for Italy.

http://www.womanonawire.blogspot.in/2011/09/unarresting-arrested-famed-fbi-profiler.html?m=1


ETA:
Nice ending quote:
"I believe in Crime and Punishment. I know Meredith’s family wants this nightmare to end, they want closure. But they have the person that killed their daughter! It is Guede. Only Guede."
 
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This reads like a meltdown. Are you expecting bad news later today? :)


He's reposting all of his old beliefs as if there is no tomorrow.


As for this, that's utter nonsense. The best that could be determined is the highest it possibly could have been and still have gotten a 'too low' reading on the Qubit. That's not evidence at all of how much it actually was, all we know from the 'too low' is that it was too low for the Qubit to detect.


The minimum detection limit of the Qubit fluorometerWP is 0.2ng (200g).
 
You know what?
You are making up that "the prosecution must have rebutted". This is you inventing the rules.



Obviously not. Why should a statement before Micheli undermine something?



It's pure ridicule. Nobody has a "duty" of some kind to state a rebuttal of an alleged expression of a defence expert. And that anyway is completely irrelevant since the trial papers are made of transcripts that contain the direct testimony of Stefanoni, they are not made of interpretations and statements by Sarah Gino. Only what Stefanoni stated matters to the point. Sarah Gino matters zero.



Expert witnesses are also paid to provide opinions and their expertise. If you think that she is “corrupt” or that such opinion is a “lie” it’s up to you to prove it. You may say that, as long as you prove it. The facts are that Stefanoni told about false negatives on confirmatory tests on the luminol prints immediately in her first 2008 questioning; she also said that “normally we don’t do confirmatory tests on latent prints” because they expect them to turn out negative. To be fair, she doesn’t speak about TMB tests explicitly. So you may still claim that she didn’t mention specifically TMB tests. But nothing else.



Somehow you managed to miss the number of times that I corrected all of you on this forum. So let’s repeat what stays unchallenged like before: TMB tests are logically irrelevant because TMB is less sensitive and less specific than luminol, and also because they react to the same array of false negatives: there are no substances known to be reactive to luminol but not to TMB, certainly there is no substance with such property is known as probable or plausible good to explain bare footprints.


Hearing may 23, 2009, pages 148-149




Stefanoni was never caught lying. You are making u stuff. As for Vecchiotti, I can’t guess what you attempted to quote, but the only evidence of lying you will find in the C&V report in there will be Vecchiotti’s lying.


The fact that the sample was in the magnitude of hundreds of picograms is absolutely true, that happens to be a correct esteem. But in fact Stefanoni’s response was much more articulate and full of caveats. She also stated from the beginning that it was a low template sample, and I mean from the beginning. Your false narrative calling her a person “caught lying” is just making up stuff, nothing but stupid and childish invention.

"From the beginning" means before judge Micheli in 2008, page 21: Stefanoni is asked whether she thinks that peaks of the knife chart are “very low”, under what she would consider “at risk”, she answers “yes, yes, yes”. In the same Oct. 2008 hearing, just after the line when she answers the defense question about the magnitude (“hundreds of pictograms”) she is asked by the defence “this made think you think it could be a low copy number?” she answer “Yes it’s possible, of course!” (hearing of Oct. 8. P. 178).
Stefanoni already stated it was a low copy number, the esteem about hundreds of pictograms is correct (based on the Fluorimeter sensitivity and volume) and she did not say that in the way C&V report that, since previously she pointed out many caveats about the amount, saying she didn’t know. Dut the defence attorney wanted to know a rough esteem whether she thought it was like in the magnitude of pictograms or nanograms, and she said (correctly) she thought magnitude was the hundreds of pictograms.


Come on you are smart enough, you can understand. You can understand it makes absolutely no sense to lie about the method of quantification telling about a more sensitive method, given that the truth is that the profile was extracted with an instrument which is less sensitive, so it must have been even bigger, necessarily bigger than the minimum concentration threshold to be detected by the Fluorimeter.

I don't know what Potenza did but I do recall his analysis of Stefanoni's work was scathing. It is also apparent he realized that Stefanoni was lying about her interpretation of the bra clasp.
Well you should use his work not only to read what his opinions of Stefanoni are, but also consider it as a trial paper which he has signed, what he said and what he didn’t say is on the records, and he certainly had the possibility to witness all what Stefanoni did, hence, by definition Stefanoni did not hide any action she performed.


No, she wrote that there are extra alleles. But anyway, she made clear that her list of extra alleles and stutters was her interpretation and her own opinion, and she gave the chart – including the peaks heights - to be discussed before the judge.




Well, you are lying. You went through this, but you didn’t succeed in making any valid point.

The truth is Stefanoni had already provided the chart with all the peaks heights before the hearing of Oct. 8. 2008. This is evident from her testimony at pages 98-99-100.

She discussed with the other experts and she points out that there are peaks heights indicated on the charts, and she points out that “this is the information I was requested to write in the chart”.

I will conclude my post stating again in the most adamant fashion that all your allegations you brought here against Stefanoni are false. The fact that everything is made up is manifest, this response of mine alone includes quotes which belie you completely on a series of points, itself should show how your entire system of beliefs about the allegations on Stefanoni is false. You claim you took the time to read things, in fact it looks like you never got near to trial papers. What you do is a grotesque, nonsensical attempt of cherry picking and twisting, coupled with an adamant denial of the fact that it is obvious that Vecchiotti is a liar.

Let's sum up just a few of your errors:

- You ignore and you deny Stefanoni presented the whole charts of profile including the height peaks.

- You ignore the implications of the fact that Potenza took part to the porforming of the DNA tests on the knife.

- You falsely stated that Stefanoni attempted to make it look like a high template, while you denied and you ignored the truth that Stefanoni stated it was a low template sample already in 2008.

- You falsely asserted that Stefanoni maintained they didn't make any test in the corridoor, "only luminol" (while she actually carefully restricted the observation only to one specific point near the door, and discussed with the defence to understand the location they were asking about).

- You stated that the prosecution or Stefanoni were "caught lying", when there is absolutely zero trace of this in the papers, it's completely made up.

- You stated that the prosecution attempted to "hide" laboratory records, saying they released information only because were "ordered" to, while facts are the prosecution themselves let them know about the documentation and they themselves stated they were ready to give it to the defence.

- You omit and forget that the "differences" (omission in the report) like the TMB test not reported, has not been "discovered" by the defence but is insted information that was provided by Stefanoni and the prosecution temselves (you refuse to draw the due implications from that). Thus, it is nothing but a documental failure/imprecision, has nothing to do with fictional "catching" people "lying".

- You make up that the prosecution has a "duty of rebuttal" of Sarah Gino's statements, otherwise according to you they become "true" even thought they don't exist in the trial record, and that is complete making up stuff.

- You don't realize how your Vecchiotti-based accusation of "lying" about the "hundred of picograms" not only was shown to be incorrect, because through later calculation of the detection threashold of fluorimeter and volume it came out the esteem of magnitude was correct, but also above all because it is completely irrelevent, since it would make no sense as a "lie" (given the lower sensitivity of fluorimeter, given that Potenza was there during the test, and given that she had stated multiple times it was a low cop number).

By latent I suspect is meant not visible. We know Luminol is sensitive and not specific. It is not a definitive or 'gold standard' test for blood. So a positive Luminol result may be a false positive. Stefanoni is happy to accept this. But is not prepared to risk having a false negative (which of course may be in reality a true negative) from doing a definitive test.

Did Stefanoni explicitly say when giving evidence in court that Luminol may give false positive results and these marks may be attributable substances other than blood? Her responsibility as the expert is to give a full testimony of the findings of her examination including the strengths and weaknesses.

The two part TMB test although not definitive, is more specific than Luminol because a direct reaction indicates non blood oxidising agent, that would give a false positive Luminol result.

Why did Stefanoni say the DNA from the knife was quantified by Real Time PCR quantification when it was not? The processing was unusual, she used the Qubit rather than real time quantification, got a result back of below detection level she had to vacuum concentrate, decide to put the sample through for typing even though other samples with not detectable DNA from the Qubit were not processed. The claim to have used RT-QPCR was not true.

Do you see why if Stefanoni says in court she did something that she in fact did not do, the defence have reasonable cause to want to go through the detailed laboratory records as her testimony is clearly not reliable.
 
The PR Supertanker is gone?
Marriott closed?

What's gonna happen to all your fancy cars and boats that your PR media onslaught earned all of you FoAKaRS?
Do you guys and gals gotta give 'em back?

Man,
I never even gotta new surfboard from Marriott.
It sucks, oh well, I tried...
:)

By the way,
Amanda E Raffaele
sono innocenti!
 
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Unarresting the Arrested

More quotes from the John Douglas interview,
posted online as Amanda and Raffaele were still in jail a few years ago,
linked here for anyone interested:
http://www.womanonawire.blogspot.in/2011/09/unarresting-arrested-famed-fbi-profiler.html?m=1


KE: Did you feel you had all the information necessary or at your disposal to make your conclusion?

JD: I won't do an analysis unless I am provided with all the information necessary. In this case, I had everything I needed. In fact, more than I've had in other cases. Fortunately, I also had the crime scene evidence collection tapes to view. Often in America, we only have photos (of a crime scene) and you can't clearly understand what is happening. There was more than enough to assess.

<snip>

KE: Allegedly, DNA of Sollecito’s was said to have been found on Meredith's bra clasp. DNA of Amanda Knox’s is said to be on the murder weapon; on the knife’s handle and Meredith’s on the blade.

JD: It’s not the murder weapon. As far as I’m concerned, it hasn’t been found; probably never will. It doesn’t fit with the imprint made on the bed sheet, or the wounds found on Meredith. The evidence collection video from December
18th shows a knife, randomly chosen, from Sollecito’s apartment and transported to the lab.

The video taken on November 2nd shows the bra clasp, very clearly on the floor of the crime scene. On December 18th, after returning to the scene more than 16 times, the video shows the bra clasp, still there. It had already been kicked and shuffled around on the floor for six weeks! Secondly, the amount of DNA, supposedly, that was Sollecito’s, is highly suspect.

Moreover, if that’s all the evidence you’ve got, two tiny pieces of DNA, of the plethora that should have been there... well, it’s simply ludicrous.

<snip>

KE: What about Amanda’s confessions during the interrogations?

JD: To be interrogated from 10 pm until 6 am in the morning? These are not sophisticated young people – it would not take a dozen interrogators to break them. I know the tricks, I know what they do in there; I’ve done it. No one could hold up. I couldn’t hold up - especially over 5 days.

KE: Amanda, while under interrogation accused another man, Patrick Lumumba. Why would she have done that?

JD: The police knew they had negroid hairs at the crime scene. Amanda exchanged texts the night before with Patrick Lumumba, who's of African descent, like Guede (Note: Lumumba owned the bar where Amanda worked as a waitress. He told her she wasn't needed for work that night). Because the DNA evidence had not come back yet, they jumped to the conclusion the hairs belonged to Lumumba. They interrogated her accordingly. The tactics used was to have Amanda say what the police wanted. You get people to confess under this psychological torture.

* * *

Amanda E Raffaele
sono innocenti!
 
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It's you and your innocentisti friends who apparently still need to learn.
That a violation of article 6 changes the outcome is just false.

That it may trigger a chain of events that ends with a chainging of outcome, is true, but ony in theory, because there is almost no instance of such an event.
Most violations of article 6 - basically all of them until now in Italy - do not trigger a chani of events that changes the outcome of a trail.

The "chain of events" triggered by art. 6 violations by now has usually ended leaving the basic trial findings unaltered.

For exampe Numbers seems engaged within a misinterpretaion of the Dorigo case. That was an important case on a constitutional level, it involved a judicial modification of the procedure code. It is also important because of the application of a directive provisional measure of releasing Paolo Dorigo from prison. Then, it entitled Dorigo to a new trial, because the first was "unfair".

The procedure code was changed by the Constitutional Court in order to do that. Before that, it was possible to order a trial review only in some cases, among them if new evidence (or a change of evidentiary setting) was such to lead to think that the outcome of the trial would be acquittal.
But the ECHR maintained that the principle of restitutio ad integrum suggested that the defendant should be allowed to have a new trial under fair rules, this in any event, independently on the possibilities to obtain an acquittal.

However this didn't change the outcome. Dorigo served al his sentence, was entitled to his trial review based on ECHR indications, and at the end of his new trial he was found guilty again (convicted in Bologna on 27. Jan 2014).

That an ECHR violation leads to an acquittal is an illusion. It sometimes leads to a new trial, which by now always lead to another conviction, this time under more fair rules.

Morning Mach

A fair trial would be good in this case, although it may no longer be possible (justice delayed is justice denied after all). I don't know what the argument is that leads to your posting the above but it seems to me from what you say that the ECHR has tremendous power, even if that power completely depends on the willingness of treaty members to observe its rulings and directions.

Are you going to be at the ISC today? If so, I hope you will let us have a report from your perspective.
 
Sarah at InjusticeinPerugia posted these links to Twitter a little while ago:

https://twitter.com/NJusticAnywhere/with_replies

https://twitter.com/NjusticePerugia/with_replies

#AmandaKnox -
https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=#amandaknox&src=tyah

Omicidio Meredith -
https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=omicidio meredith&src=typd


IIP Recent News and Updates:
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RecentNews.html


She also tweeted Dr. Patrizia Stefanoni's Seminal Fluid video to Raffaele's attorney Giulia Bongiorno for me, thanks Sarah!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlXKyMh48KQ&app=desktop


As I like to read both sides of opinion,
here's Machiavelli's tweeter link:
https://twitter.com/Machiavelli_Aki


And lastly,
MichaelB just posted this:
Amanda Knox: court decision live
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11498378/Amanda-Knox-court-decision-live.html

* * *

Amanda E Raffaele
sono innocenti!
 
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The PR Supertanker is gone?
Marriott closed?

What's gonna happen to all your fancy cars and boats that your PR media onslaught earned all of you FoAKaRS?
Do you guys and gals gotta give 'em back?

Man,
I never even gotta new surfboard from Marriott.
It sucks, oh well, I tried...
:)

By the way,
Amanda E Raffaele
sono innocenti!


I know! Who's paying us to do this internet work now???!!!

This issue is yet another one that certain pro-guilt commentators have chosen to distort to fit their own agenda. The truth is, of course, far more anodyne and understandable. Marriott's partner in Gogerty Marriott, Bob Gogerty, died last year. Marriott, who's around 70 years old, decided to wind down the firm as a result. And he's taken a senior position with another (larger) PR company, Allison & Partners, which presumably will allow him to moderate his personal workload more effectively.

But oh no, to the pro-guilt nutters commentators, Marriott has been somehow defeated by his work for Knox - he's probably realised that Knox truly is a vicious murderer. The closure of Gogerty Marriott is a manifestation of that failure and a resounding victory for "Justice for Meredith"...... :rolleyes:
 
I know! Who's paying us to do this internet work now???!!!

This issue is yet another one that certain pro-guilt commentators have chosen to distort to fit their own agenda. The truth is, of course, far more anodyne and understandable. Marriott's partner in Gogerty Marriott, Bob Gogerty, died last year. Marriott, who's around 70 years old, decided to wind down the firm as a result. And he's taken a senior position with another (larger) PR company, Allison & Partners, which presumably will allow him to moderate his personal workload more effectively.

But oh no, to the pro-guilt nutters commentators, Marriott has been somehow defeated by his work for Knox - he's probably realised that Knox truly is a vicious murderer. The closure of Gogerty Marriott is a manifestation of that failure and a resounding victory for "Justice for Meredith"...... :rolleyes:

I was not aware that Mr. Gogerty died last year. I missed that news and any reference to it on this discussion forum. I offer much-belated condolences to his family and friends. Gogerty and Marriott took on responsibilities of helping the Knox family while in great distress deal with a wave of media requests, including many based on false, vicious, and sensational "news" reports coming out of Perugia and London. They are/were professional. Good for them.
 
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Sarah at InjusticeinPerugia posted these links to Twitter a little while ago:

https://twitter.com/NJusticAnywhere/with_replies

https://twitter.com/NjusticePerugia/with_replies

#AmandaKnox -
https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=#amandaknox&src=tyah

Omicidio Meredith -
https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=omicidio meredith&src=typd


IIP Recent News and Updates:
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RecentNews.html


She also tweeted Dr. Patrizia Stefanoni's Seminal Fluid video to Raffaele's attorney Giulia Bongiorno for me, thanks Sarah!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlXKyMh48KQ&app=desktop


As I like to read both sides of opinion,
here's Machiavelli's tweeter link:
https://twitter.com/Machiavelli_Aki


And lastly,
MichaelB just posted this:
Amanda Knox: court decision live
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11498378/Amanda-Knox-court-decision-live.html

* * *

Amanda E Raffaele
sono innocenti!

Our tweeting resources leave something to be desired, though. For example, on Wednesday, Machiavelli tweeted triumphantly about how maresca was accusing C&V of misconduct. But, he "forgot" to mention how the judge then reamed out maresca and told him to file a complaint or shut up.

That is dishonest tweeting.
 
Our tweeting resources leave something to be desired, though. For example, on Wednesday, Machiavelli tweeted triumphantly about how maresca was accusing C&V of misconduct. But, he "forgot" to mention how the judge then reamed out maresca and told him to file a complaint or shut up.

That is dishonest tweeting.

Tweets are fast paced and very limited in their content. Did Machiavelli later mention the judge's criticism of Maresca, or not at all?
 
Tweets are fast paced and very limited in their content. Did Machiavelli later mention the judge's criticism of Maresca, or not at all?

Yeah, not at all. Maybe he had to step out to go to the bathroom and missed the second part.
 
I predict a good outcome today/tonight.

Interestingly, what might appear to be a 'bad' outcome, at first sight, may well, on sober reflection, actually turn out to be a good one in the long term.

Cassation has a major problem with these cases and I would bet that within the large body of judges on the court, there are at least some who realise it and realise that the charges are junk.

There were indications on Wednesday that Bruno and Matone are cut from different cloth than Chieffi, for example.

But these cases would not survive ECHR scrutiny, and one possible interpretation of a 'good' result is that for both defendants, the convictions are confirmed. That way the control of their fates will pass to Strasbourg, rather than an Italian appellate court and then again, Cassation, in about two years time.

The short term consequences of such a result will not be pleasant for either Ms Knox or Mr Sollecito, but justice is rarely swift and seemingly, never swift in Italy.

A defeat today will be a victory tomorrow in a different arena, but a partial victory today may well result in longer term torment. They cannot have that different arena while the Italian courts hold on to them.

It is too much to hope that acquittal is realistically a possibility at this point.
 
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