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Dick Cheney thinks Obama is worst President of his lifetime

maxpower1227 said:
Uh, no. It was immediately obvious to any thinking person not blinded by partisanship that Sarah Palin was an idiot. I was leaning toward McCain when she was selected, and that decision very swiftly moved me to the Democrat side. She was clearly an imbecile.
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Please tell me what gave her away and when. When did you become convinced that she was an imbecile?
 
sunmaster14 said:
Please tell me what gave her away and when. When did you become convinced that she was an imbecile?
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Listening to her speak? It's not like Sarah Palin just suddenly started spewing incoherent word salad during Steve King's event in Iowa. She has always spoken like a stereotypical beauty pageant contestant. There's a reason she decided early on to avoid all news media and give interviews only to Fox where she would be treated with kid gloves.
 
maxpower1227 said:
Listening to her speak? It's not like Sarah Palin just suddenly started spewing incoherent word salad during Steve King's event in Iowa. She has always spoken like a stereotypical beauty pageant contestant. There's a reason she decided early on to avoid all news media and give interviews only to Fox where she would be treated with kid gloves.
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I don't believe you. Her appearances and speeches were heavily scripted prior to the Republican convention, and I don't think it was reasonably at all to infer that she was a know-nothing. I can see being biased against her "hicky" accent, but that's simply irrational bias. No, she was viciously attacked leading up to the Republican convention and in the days after, long before anything substantive was known about her.
 
sunmaster14 said:
Please tell me what gave her away and when. When did you become convinced that she was an imbecile?
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This is off topic, but here was the JREF thread* about her selection.

For me, it started when learning that she promoted teaching creationism in schools. I can't really point to a specific moment when it was settled in my mind, but it was probably just after the VP debate.





* Well, it was JREF at the time. Old habits die hard.
 
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sunmaster14 said:
I don't believe you. Her appearances and speeches were heavily scripted prior to the Republican convention, and I don't think it was reasonably at all to infer that she was a know-nothing. I can see being biased against her "hicky" accent, but that's simply irrational bias. No, she was viciously attacked leading up to the Republican convention and in the days after, long before anything substantive was known about her.
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That's fine, you don't have to believe me. I guess all of us who correctly pegged her as a drooling moron 7 years ago were just freaking psychics.
 
sunmaster14 said:
Democrats unfairly and viciously attacked Palin and tried their best to bring her down before it could possibly be known that she was an idiot. That she did indeed turn out to be an idiot does not justify their disgraceful strategy leading up to the 2008 election, nor the vitriol that they've directed at her since. Ironically, the unfair treatment of Palin in the media has kept her in the spotlight and been good for her bank account as some conservatives reflexively rally around her. It's certainly an interesting phenomenon at any rate.

As for Bill Maher, he is truly vile. Even worse, he's not funny. I do not wish for his death though, nor anyone's, simply because he's obnoxious or disagrees with me politically. To wish for Dick Cheney's death, or to compare him to a serial killer, is to disparage oneself rather than Dick Cheney.
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It was quite obvious from the minute she opened her mouth she was an idiot. Only an idiot would not notice that. Unfairly? Viciously? She was running for vice president, not prom queen. High level politics can be unfair and vicious. Sometimes it spawns completed unfounded rumors like being born in Kenya and sometimes it exposes the truth, like Palin is an idiot.
 
Tony Stark said:
I wouldn't say taking the law into your own hands is moral, but Dick Cheney's assassination would have made the world a better place.
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Dick Cheney does not deserve to be killed because he has done nothing that reasonable people would believe is innately immoral or evil. The fact that he may, in the opinion of some reasonable people, have made decisions that led to far greater net harm than the harm caused by a serial killer, is of little moral consequence. He was granted the power to make those decisions by the American people, and he made those decisions according to the law.

In my opinion, Barack Obama has also caused great net harm in the world. I think his actions have condemned tens of thousands of innocent civilians to death indirectly, and he has played a more direct role in the deaths of hundreds of innocents. However, I merely believe he is a deeply flawed and misguided leader, not a murderer.
 
sunmaster14 said:
Dick Cheney does not deserve to be killed because he has done nothing that reasonable people would believe is innately immoral or evil. The fact that he may, in the opinion of some reasonable people, have made decisions that led to far greater net harm than the harm caused by a serial killer, is of little moral consequence. He was granted the power to make those decisions by the American people, and he made those decisions according to the law.

In my opinion, Barack Obama has also caused great net harm in the world. I think his actions have condemned tens of thousands of innocent civilians to death indirectly, and he has played a more direct role in the deaths of hundreds of innocents. However, I merely believe he is a deeply flawed and misguided leader, not a murderer.
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Tens of thousands? Then he has a lot of catching up to do to be on the level of Bush/Cheney.
 
Spindrift said:
It was quite obvious from the minute she opened her mouth she was an idiot. Only an idiot would not notice that. Unfairly? Viciously? She was running for vice president, not prom queen. High level politics can be unfair and vicious. Sometimes it spawns completed unfounded rumors like being born in Kenya and sometimes it exposes the truth, like Palin is an idiot.
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If you're going to keep going with the thinly veiled incivility, can you at least try to be clever about it?
 
sunmaster14 said:
Dick Cheney does not deserve to be killed because he has done nothing that reasonable people would believe is innately immoral or evil. The fact that he may, in the opinion of some reasonable people, have made decisions that led to far greater net harm than the harm caused by a serial killer, is of little moral consequence. He was granted the power to make those decisions by the American people, and he made those decisions according to the law.

In my opinion, Barack Obama has also caused great net harm in the world. I think his actions have condemned tens of thousands of innocent civilians to death indirectly, and he has played a more direct role in the deaths of hundreds of innocents. However, I merely believe he is a deeply flawed and misguided leader, not a murderer.
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Lying in order to get support for starting a war is something that all reasonably people believe is innately immoral or evil.

Ordering torture is something that all reasonable people believe is innately immoral or evil. It is also something that is without any doubt whatsoever a war crime under both US and international law and not something that his (or the actual President's) office granted him the legal power to do.
 
Spindrift said:
Tens of thousands? Then he has a lot of catching up to do to be on the level of Bush/Cheney.
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Net net, Bush/Cheney may have saved many more lives than were lost in the Iraq War. How many Iraqi children were dying due to the sanctions? How bloody do you think a civil war in Iraq would have been if Saddam or one of his successors were toppled without US intervention? What would be the consequences of a nuclear arms race between Iraq and Iran if the sanctions had fallen apart?
 
sunmaster14 said:
Net net, Bush/Cheney may have saved many more lives than were lost in the Iraq War. How many Iraqi children were dying due to the sanctions? How bloody do you think a civil war in Iraq would have been if Saddam or one of his successors were toppled without US intervention? What would be the consequences of a nuclear arms race between Iraq and Iran if the sanctions had fallen apart?
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May have saved? That's the ex post facto justification now? That's sad.

Can Obama use that one too, since there's no way to prove it?
 
16.5 said:
I think his only error was relying on Clinton era intelligence.
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I love political ideologies in the US. If you're a Republican, no Democrat can ever do good, and vice-versa. If a politician of your party does bad, it's somehow the other party's fault.
 
Spindrift said:
There is nothing wrong with it as you so clearly demonstrate.
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I was not trying to insult anybody. I was merely making the claim that normal, objective people, using reason, would not see Cheney as an innately evil person. The word "reasonable" is very common in philosophical discussions. It is not to denigrate anybody, but rather to limit the point of view to a normal, objective, rational human being.

Your comment, however, was mostly gratuitous.
 
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