Continuation Part 13: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[NancyS]

I agree quite with cristianahannah, and definitely disagree with NancyS' rhetoric, but while I agree with cristianahannah I, also go beyond. My personal belief (and by my understanding, that of Mignini too) is not just that Meredith felt unconfortable about specific behaviours of Amanda Knox, but that she rather disliked or disregarded her as a person, she didn't wish to spend much time in her company, and Amanda Knox felt utterly hurt by Meredith and her British friends cutting her off their circle.
In return to this, or together with this, Amanda also had feelings of sexual jealousy about Meredith and negative feelings against her.

It's obvious that this scenario stems from also an overal consideration of Knox's personality, and the observation that she was not exactly a "normal" girl, with indipendent indicators that she had some psychological issues and a problematic self. The point is not about her sexual habits or personal morals, which have no interest, the problematic element is her psychology. Neither me, nor Mignini or the judge or Meredith had a problem with her sexual or sentimental life, it was Amanda who had a problem with her sexual life and habits. This was a main causal element of the crime, in my opinion (and by my understanding, in Mignini's).

This is an extremely odd view to have about women? Is sexual jealousy something that you have invented

And the rest of this is just pure fantasy - but who cares right, just add in a naked helicopter ride and you can make millions out of these dirty old man fantasies. It really does say far more about what is going on in the mind of Mignini, than it actually does about AK

And thanks for the expert psychological analysis - all it takes is a bit of flatmate bitching and it is going to turn a woman murderous, maybe it was the time of the month, right - it really is just pure fantasy Mr MachiavELi James

 

[Desert Fox]

That article at truejustice is the most badly written nonsense I've ever read - what an absolute loon! The quote "nobody turned her into a filthy, sex obsessed slut, but herself" - do people really believe this mysoginist nonsense?

Yes it was pretty painful to read.

Does anybody remember the scene in "Running Man" where Amber is being character assassinated by the announcer

Found it on IMDB actually
[Amber is being introduced to the audience as a special guest 'runner']
Phil Hiton: ...Later, she cheated on College exams. Then she had sexual relations with three, sometimes even four men within a single year. Then came Mad Dog Ben Richards, her *Confederate*, her LOVER!
Amber: That's a lie!
Damon Killian: Let's reunite these two lovebirds!
[audience cheers]

That is what this pro guilt obsession with Amanda's sex life seems to be.

 

[Machiavelli]

Where has your head been the last 7 years? Amanda has constantly been referred to as sleazy, dirty etc. How many times have we read about "sex on a train"? and the many men she had over to the cottage? We have heard that she is obsessed with drugs and more.

(...)

Not in the Italian media.
And not from the police, nor from the prosecution.

She was reportedly called dirty by her cellmates because she didn't wash herself, but that was later.
She was described as not clean by Meredith's English friends, who reported at the trial what Meredith told them, including her complaint about "strange" men at the cottage.
That's witnesses reporting facts.

I'm curious about what do you mean when you say she was "constantly been referred to as sleazy, dirty". Where are those alleged judgemental Italian media, what articles do you mean, what did they say exactly.

 

[Machiavelli]

This is an extremely odd view to have about women? (...)

We are not talking about women. It's one specific individual named Amanda Knox.

 

[Bill Williams]

I agree quite with cristianahannah, and definitely disagree with NancyS' rhetoric, but while I agree with cristianahannah I, also go beyond. My personal belief (and by my understanding, that of Mignini too) is not just that Meredith felt unconfortable about specific behaviours of Amanda Knox, but that she rather disliked or disregarded her as a person, she didn't wish to spend much time in her company, and Amanda Knox felt utterly hurt by Meredith and her British friends cutting her off their circle.
In return to this, or together with this, Amanda also had feelings of sexual jealousy about Meredith and negative feelings against her.

It's obvious that this scenario stems from also an overall consideration of Knox's personality, and the observation that she was not exactly a "normal" girl; I think there are indipendent indicators that she had some psychological issues and a problematic self. The point is not about her sexual habits or personal morals, which have no interest, the problematic element is her psychology. Neither me, nor Mignini or the judge or Meredith had a problem with her sexual or sentimental life, it was Amanda who had a problem with her sexual life and habits. This was a main causal element of the crime, in my opinion (and by my understanding, in Mignini's).

It is obvious?

You "think" there are independent indicators?

Should someone go to jail on a sexed-up, misogynist fantasy that someone else has about someone?

Where is this "independent indicator"?

However, I am grateful that you limit this to being believed by only you and Mignini.

 

[NancyS]

Did you get this nonsense from john Kercher via Maresca? Sexual jealousy? Really? Negative feelings? Where's the evidence?

How do you explain the shopping trips together, the chocolate festival, the music concert, the borrowing of condoms, the text messages signed off with kisses, the content of which supports a view of care and concern for each other's welfare etc etc?

Where is the evidence Ms Knox was 'cut off' by Ms Kercher?

Why bother with evidence, when you can just sling mud and suggest that AK is a witch/bitch/whore/slut etc., or just try to suggest that her behaviour indicates she is not 'normal', even though it was fairly average and normal behaviour for a young woman and in no way different to the behaviour of Meredith Kercher

 

[Bill Williams]

Not in the Italian media.
And not from the police, nor from the prosecution.

She was reportedly called dirty by her cellmates because she didn't wash herself, but that was later.
She was described as not clean by Meredith's English friends, who reported at the trial what Meredith told them, including her complaint about "strange" men at the cottage.
That's witnesses reporting facts.

I'm curious about what do you mean when you say she was "constantly been referred to as sleazy, dirty". Where are those alleged judgemental Italian media, what articles do you mean, what did they say exactly.

None of this was believed even by Judge Massei, one of the convicting judges.

For some reason, you are continuing the misogynist lies. The only unknown is why.

 

[NancyS]

We are not talking about women. It's one specific individual named Amanda Knox.

And it illustrates a far wider opinion of women in general. There is no evidence to suggest that Amanda was anything but a normal student - and yet you turn her normal behaviour into evidence of being a witch/bitch/slut

 

[Desert Fox]

I was watching a Forensic Detectives program and from one, the idea is that if you strangle somebody, you will leave DNA from your hands on their neck.

I have heard argued by the pro guilt side that Amanda and Raffaele were involved in restraining Meredeth. As such, on those locations, should then not have left DNA?

Edit: That was DNA testing in 2002 not 2015 either. . . . .

 

[NancyS]

Not in the Italian media.
And not from the police, nor from the prosecution.

She was reportedly called dirty by her cellmates because she didn't wash herself, but that was later.
She was described as not clean by Meredith's English friends, who reported at the trial what Meredith told them, including her complaint about "strange" men at the cottage.
That's witnesses reporting facts.

I'm curious about what do you mean when you say she was "constantly been referred to as sleazy, dirty". Where are those alleged judgemental Italian media, what articles do you mean, what did they say exactly.

If she wasn't washing in prison, that would be fairly indicative of severe depression - and yet you use these tabloid rumours to again 'slut-shame'

The rest of your post is taking some minor and fairly normal bitching of Meredith's (which all housemates do) and using it to again 'slut-shame' Amanda

 

[lonepinealex]

Re: Burleigh's article quoting a State Department source about extradition.

I would think this must have rung some alarm bells with some of the more enlightened guilters, no? I mean, I'm sure for now they can brush this off as speculation by Burleigh, but if it turns out to be true that both the US State Department and the Italian Govt have no interest in pursuing extradition, it's pretty hard to put this down to the PR Supertanker^TM.

How many people must be included in the conspiracy before guilters will question their certainty that Amanda is the killer?

 

[Kauffer]

Not in the Italian media.
And not from the police, nor from the prosecution.

She was reportedly called dirty by her cellmates because she didn't wash herself, but that was later. She was described as not clean by Meredith's English friends, who reported at the trial what Meredith told them, including her complaint about "strange" men at the cottage. That's witnesses reporting facts.
I'm curious about what do you mean when you say she was "constantly been referred to as sleazy, dirty". Where are those alleged judgemental Italian media, what articles do you mean, what did they say exactly.

Reportedly? Reported by whom?

What trial testimony, specifically, do you rely on? Which of the English girls said Ms Knox was 'not clean'?

 

[Machiavelli]

Did you get this nonsense from john Kercher via Maresca? Sexual jealousy? Really? Negative feelings? Where's the evidence?

How do you explain the shopping trips together, the chocolate festival, the music concert, the borrowing of condoms, the text messages signed off with kisses, the content of which supports a view of care and concern for each other's welfare etc etc?

Where is the evidence Ms Knox was 'cut off' by Ms Kercher?

But there are so many evidences.
From Knox's veneration of Laura and copying her ear piercings to the witnesses description of her wierd attempts to grab attention. There is details everywhere.
Then Halloween night. The series of SMS Amanda sent Meredith, Amanda dressed in a cat costume who sobs alone because Meredith never answered, stayed with her English friends and let her spent the night alone with Lumumba and then Sollecito. Meredith letting her alone with "Shakey" without warning her, despite she knew his habits. Even in Sollecito's book, he admits that she didn't attend Meredith much over those days because "Meredith's friends didn't like her". Sollecito writes this himself!

 

[NancyS]

None of this was believed even by Judge Massei, one of the convicting judges.

For some reason, you are continuing the misogynist lies. The only unknown is why.

It's because there is no credible evidence to link AK to the crime, which means that the only option is to dehumanise her and sling enough mud to make people believe she is capable of anything. It could happen to any young woman

 

[Bill Williams]

Not in the Italian media.
And not from the police, nor from the prosecution.

She was reportedly called dirty by her cellmates because she didn't wash herself, but that was later. She was described as not clean by Meredith's English friends, who reported at the trial what Meredith told them, including her complaint about "strange" men at the cottage. That's witnesses reporting facts.
I'm curious about what do you mean when you say she was "constantly been referred to as sleazy, dirty". Where are those alleged judgemental Italian media, what articles do you mean, what did they say exactly.​

Reportedly? Reported by whom?

What trial testimony, specifically, do you rely on? Which of the English girls said Ms Knox was 'not clean'?

English tabloid stringer, Sharon Feinstein, secured an interview with a cellmate of Knox's, a year after Knox's release. Amongst other things, this cellmate said that Knox had been cold to her on occasion, but also admitted to participating in bullying of Knox.

Feinstein opened a blog in 2012 detailing this, and the blog was predictably flooded with the internet war that has broken out. It was there when I first heard about "sex on a train." I had made a point on the alleged "clean-up" being impossible, and someone came back at me with, "Typical FOAKer, who would defend someone who'd had sex on a train."

It got crazy after that.

Feinstein had to abandon the blog. She was last seen at the Leveson phone-hacking scandal inquiry giving evidence as to how the tabloids had excesses.

IMO she really blew an opportunity. I had a brief e-mail conversation with her, and she defended the right to titillate the English chattering classes with gossip.

 

[NancyS]

But there are so many evidences.
From Knox's veneration of Laura and copying her ear piercings to the witnesses description of her wierd attempts to grab attention. There is details everywhere.
Then Halloween night. The series of SMS Amanda sent Meredith, Amanda dressed in a cat costume who sobs alone because Meredith never answered, stayed with her English friends and let her spent the night alone with Lumumba and then Sollecito. Meredith letting her alone with "Shakey" without warning her, despite she knew his habits. Even in Sollecito's book, he admits that she didn't attend Meredith much over those days because "Meredith's friends didn't like her". Sollecito writes this himself!

So you are basically suggesting that Meredith was a Mean Girl You really don't care how much you insult the memory of MK, if you can sling any mud at AK

You definitely have an odd idea of women, if you think a bit of low level high school bitching is going to make a woman murderous

 

[Kauffer]

But there are so many evidences.
From Knox's veneration of Laura and copying her ear piercings to the witnesses description of her wierd attempts to grab attention. There is details everywhere.
Then Halloween night. The series of SMS Amanda sent Meredith, Amanda dressed in a cat costume who sobs alone because Meredith never answered, stayed with her English friends and let her spent the night alone with Lumumba and then Sollecito. Meredith letting her alone with "Shakey" without warning her, despite she knew his habits. Even in Sollecito's book, he admits that she didn't attend Meredith much over those days because "Meredith's friends didn't like her". Sollecito writes this himself!

You mentioned sexual jealousy, but when challenged, the reference disappears.
What sobbing?. Ms Kercher had made plans for Halloween, that's all. No problem. That Ms Knox was not part of Ms Kercher's friends' circle is not evidence she had a bad relationship with Ms Kercher.

I asked you to explain the evidence I cited of what was in fact a warm and friendly relationship between Ms Knox and Ms Kercher. You ignored that.

 

[Desert Fox]

Feinstein opened a blog in 2012 detailing this, and the blog was predictably flooded with the internet war that has broken out. It was there when I first heard about "sex on a train." I had made a point on the alleged "clean-up" being impossible, and someone came back at me with, "Typical FOAKer, who would defend someone who'd had sex on a train."

By that definition, I guess everybody in the "Mile High Club" must also be guilty of murder?

 

[Desert Fox]

So you are basically suggesting that Meredith was a Mean Girl You really don't care how much you insult the memory of MK, if you can sling any mud at AK
You definitely have an odd idea of women, if you think a bit of low level high school bitching is going to make a woman murderous

Isn't that the exact same think the Kercher Italian Lawyer did in court with posting a naked picture of Meredeth?

 

[Kauffer]

Isn't that the exact same think the Kercher Italian Lawyer did in court with posting a naked picture of Meredeth?

It's the same thing her own father did to her in his book - portrayed his daughter as spiteful and mean - angry toward Ms Knox.