DOJ: Ferguson PD descrimination against blacks is routine

Those who don't vote deserve the government they get.
As has been said, there seems plenty of time, money, and organization to protest so there should be is absolutely no reason not to vote.

Hell the protests themselves are the perfect opportunity for someone to campaign for office.
 
Wolrab said:
Those who don't vote deserve the government they get.
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What's the implication of this statement? That the people who do vote don't deserve the government they get? If not, then what meaning does the statement have? Everyone deserves the government they get, regardless of their participation? Then what's the point or participating? Hmm...
 
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Cl1mh4224rd said:
What's the implication of this statement? That the people who do vote don't deserve the government they get? If not, then what meaning does the statement have? Everyone deserves the government they get, regardless of their participation? Then what's the point or participating? Hmm...
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It means, to me anyway, that if you see a problem and don't do anything about it then you're part of the problem.
 
The African-American population could easily change the make up of their local government. There is obvious organizational abilities present. There is an election next month. All I have seen here is talk about inability to change and some nonsense about being too timid to vote.

If you vote and your candidate loses, at least you tried. The Mayor ran unopposed last time IIANM. If he is so bad why didn't anybody step up to the plate?
 
Wolrab said:
The African-American population could easily change the make up of their local government. There is obvious organizational abilities present. There is an election next month. All I have seen here is talk about inability to change and some nonsense about being too timid to vote.

If you vote and your candidate loses, at least you tried. The Mayor ran unopposed last time IIANM. If he is so bad why didn't anybody step up to the plate?
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It's easier to complain and maintain victim status?
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
It means, to me anyway, that if you see a problem and don't do anything about it then you're part of the problem.
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But what to do? The judicial system is stacked against them. The election system is stacked against them. Pretending that it's not or that people are just too lazy doesn't address the problem. It just blames someone else. Arguably, the actual victims in this situation.
 
Upchurch said:
But what to do? The judicial system is stacked against them. The election system is stacked against them. Pretending that it's not or that people are just too lazy doesn't address the problem. It just blames someone else. Arguably, the actual victims in this situation.
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The problem won't go away if we just give up. The solution may not be at all easy, but a solution that requires hard work is better than no solution at all. The DOJ ruling on this is a good start, take that and run with it.
 
Even if you replace the entire police department you still have huge problems in St Louis/Ferguson that won't be addressed.

I can't find stats specific to Ferguson. I posted this in the Michael Brown thread:

METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT, CITY OF SAINT LOUIS
ANNUAL REPORT TO THE COMMUNITY
2012
http://www.slmpd.org/images/2012AnnualReport_D.pdf

St. Louis is about 49% black, 44% white.

From page 23:

Arrests:

Murder
White males: 3
Black males: 106
Most murdered black males (over 90% I believe) are killed by other black males.

Aggravated assault
White males: 140
Black males: 746

Weapons offenses
White males: 73
Black males: 686

Breakdown by races of poor residents (income below poverty level) in St. Louis in percentages
white: about 16%
black: 38 - 39%

Blacks are 36 times more likely to be arrested for murder, and are around 2.3 times more likely to be poor. Poverty doesn't seem to be a major factor.

How does law enforcement deal with statistics like these? You have some racist cops, but black people are not being killed by white people or racist cops, they are killing each other, and are committing a wildly disproportionate percentage of violent crimes.

How can we point the finger at one group and not the other? Why are these numbers so lopsided? I don't think the police force is a big part of the overall problem here.

These statistics can't be ignored if the problem is to be solved.
 
Wolrab said:
The African-American population could easily change the make up of their local government. There is obvious organizational abilities present. There is an election next month. All I have seen here is talk about inability to change and some nonsense about being too timid to vote.

If you vote and your candidate loses, at least you tried. The Mayor ran unopposed last time IIANM. If he is so bad why didn't anybody step up to the plate?
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It takes money to run for office. It requires the ability to take time off to run your campaign. How many black people in Ferguson can afford to do that? And then there is the mindset, ingrained over years of abuse by the police.

I don't blame them for being discouraged.
 
KatieG said:
It takes money to run for office. It requires the ability to take time off to run your campaign. How many black people in Ferguson can afford to do that? And then there is the mindset, ingrained over years of abuse by the police.

I don't blame them for being discouraged.
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You can put your name on the ballot for a job, and use the neighborhood to do your campaigning. Some of those guy ran without challengers so if they voted for themselves and nobody else voted at all they'd have the job.
 
KatieG said:
It takes money to run for office. It requires the ability to take time off to run your campaign. How many black people in Ferguson can afford to do that? And then there is the mindset, ingrained over years of abuse by the police.

I don't blame them for being discouraged.
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What is the cost of a box to stand on at a protest?
 
Wolrab said:
What is the cost of a box to stand on at a protest?
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I was involved in a campaign in Indiana where everybody printed ten copies of a flyer and posted them around town. There was no other expenses. The guy ran against a office holder who hadn't been challenged in ten years. The incumbent got 15 votes, about as many as usual. The challenger got two thousand votes.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
So the job naturally attracts alpha males, and we all know how insecure they can be.
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Not half as insecure as the sycophants who lick their boots.

Some of them are just a couple of bad decisions from being thugs themselves, we see the bad ex cop often enough.
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Ever wonder why they are ex cops? That's how the system is supposed to work - just not in Ferguson.
 
mgidm86 said:
How can we point the finger at one group and not the other? Why are these numbers so lopsided? I don't think the police force is a big part of the overall problem here.
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Of course it isn't. We all know the real reason for the problem - blacks are prone to criminal behavior because it's in their genes. :rolleyes:

These statistics can't be ignored if the problem is to be solved.
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On the contrary, the problem won't go away until we ignore racist statistics and stop treating people according to the color of their skin.
 
mgidm86 said:
Blacks are 36 times more likely to be arrested for murder, and are around 2.3 times more likely to be poor. Poverty doesn't seem to be a major factor.
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I would like to know how you came to this conclusion, poverty plays no part in crime, especially violent crime. Everyone from criminologists to sociologists says it plays a huge part.

mgidm86 said:
How does law enforcement deal with statistics like these?
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Statistics like what? You listed 1,538 major offenses attributed to blacks in St. Louis. The black population in St. Louis is estimated at just over 156,000. That's one major crime for every 100 persons. That's not exactly a mindboggling number.

The way many police departments -- even Ferguson MO in recent months -- has dealt with controlling crime in high-crime neighborhoods is through community policing. To get both cops and residents to feel they're on the same side, want the same things and can achieve it if they work together.

In a place like Ferguson where police were tasked with producing revenue it's not possible to get the community on their side. How would that work? Interviews with local residents make it clear that this emphasis on writing tickets to produce dollars was well-known. The residents didn't need the DoJ to reveal this. They already knew it.
 
mgidm86 said:
How does law enforcement deal with statistics like these?
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Law enforcement doesn't deal with statistics. An upper limit on intelligence for cops was established as constitutional a few years ago.
 
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SezMe said:
*Pulls used envelop out of round file; turns it over*

Let's assume $2 mil in revenue and (to make it easy) 20,000 citations. If each citation cost $100, that generates the $2 mil. I don't find it hard to believe that an average citation would run ~$100.
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Some more figures: In 2013, Ferguson issued 32,000 arrest warrants, and at the end of the year there was 40,000 outstanding warrants.

source: https://www.courts.mo.gov/file.jsp?id=68845
 
A lot of the practices documented in the report were illegal. One doesn't need to go through the ballot box to challenge those - the law is already there, just not being enforced.

If elections were the only acceptable way forward, then in municipalities with a majority of racists, the minorities would have no acceptable route to recourse - as opposed to reality, where protests can get enough focus to start investigations into these bent forces. he protests led to the DoJ report.
 
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