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This is how you avoid accepting responsibility.

Gawdzilla Sama said:
Not sure I follow you there.
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My comment on late reporting by victims - traditionally male on male sexual assault or molestation is under-reported even more than female victimization due to cultural biases concerning what certain observers see as homosexual activity rather that flat out victimization.
 
BStrong said:
My comment on late reporting by victims - traditionally male on male sexual assault or molestation is under-reported even more than female victimization due to cultural biases concerning what certain observers see as homosexual activity rather that flat out victimization.
Click to expand...

Okay, that's clear. Thanks.
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
Okay, what they did was wrong, evil and vile. But you know what - it has nothing to do in particular with them being Christians or theists. This sort of thing has being going on for ages in the name of what ever "excuse" worked and yes, I wish we lived in a better world, but we don't. So what do you do in your everyday life to make it better? That is what counts.

It is easy to play to moral high ground on the Internet. There is just one problem - there is no moral high ground. It is all stuff happening. There is no salvation in this universe and no magic bullet and that includes science. You has a human can try to minimize the damage you do, but that requires that you learn to consider your own POV and not just everybody else's. :)

With regards
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Rape, murder, love, hate are all the same in the great cosmic game?
 
Tommy Jeppesen PM'd me last night and apologised and admitted he had gone over the top. I suggested to him that he might want to say as much in this thread, and then I went to bed.

This morning I can see that he just couldn't bring himself to do it, and continue digging his hole.

Pride? Just can't admit he was being a pretentious dick whose ego was too inflated to see past? Always harping on about "others' POV", lecturing skeptics on how to be a skeptic as if he is the only true skeptic here.

All comes across as preening arrogance, multiplied here in this thread.

Tommy, your opening one line response in this thread was nothing but a callous catcall. There was nothing to distinguish it from trolling. Understand that POV and quit your cool tomfoolery.*



*Captain Beefheart.

Dunno why it came to mind… just needed to get out of this tunnel, I guess.
 
asydhouse said:
Tommy Jeppesen PM'd me last night and apologised and admitted he had gone over the top. I suggested to him that he might want to say as much in this thread, and then I went to bed.

This morning I can see that he just couldn't bring himself to do it, and continue digging his hole.

Pride? Just can't admit he was being a pretentious dick whose ego was too inflated to see past? Always harping on about "others' POV", lecturing skeptics on how to be a skeptic as if he is the only true skeptic here.

All comes across as preening arrogance, multiplied here in this thread.

Tommy, your opening one line response in this thread was nothing but a callous catcall. There was nothing to distinguish it from trolling. Understand that POV and quit your cool tomfoolery.*



*Captain Beefheart.

Dunno why it came to mind… just needed to get out of this tunnel, I guess.
Click to expand...

Well, I live in a time-zone and have a life, so yes. It might have been better if I had taken the time before I went to work to write an apology, but I wanted to do it in proper form.

So now I have the time, so here is the apology. I got caught up in chasing a point and forgot that there are real life victims behind this story. I did in no form or manner mean to belittle their suffering nor excuse the criminals.

With regards
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
Well, I live in a time-zone and have a life, so yes. It might have been better if I had taken the time before I went to work to write an apology, but I wanted to do it in proper form.

So now I have the time, so here is the apology. I got caught up in chasing a point and forgot that there are real life victims behind this story. I did in no form or manner mean to belittle their suffering nor excuse the criminals.

With regards
Click to expand...



Spoken like a gentleman. Thank you.

And I'm sorry to have jumped the gun this morning.
 
ehcks said:
The problem now is that this goes back to the Hobby Lobby case.

“It is not for us to say that their religious beliefs are mistaken or insubstantial,” -Alito

That ridiculous case is going to lead to some equally ridiculous cases. Like this one.
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How, in your view, is allowing a private business to keep from providing health care because of contraceptives and allowing a sleazy organization to avoid paying out restitution to victims of its members in any way equally ridiculous?

I would argue that the latter is far more ridiculous and vile than the former, but it is the former that allowed the latter to happen in the first place. It is exactly the slippery slope that I, and others, predicted when the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Hobby Lobby and it's only going to get worse.
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
Okay, what they did was wrong, evil and vile. But you know what - it has nothing to do in particular with them being Christians or theists. This sort of thing has being going on for ages in the name of what ever "excuse" worked and yes, I wish we lived in a better world, but we don't. So what do you do in your everyday life to make it better? That is what counts.
Click to expand...


Permit me to try to explain why it has a lot to do with being a Christian in particular and a theist in general.


But first let me address this part

Tommy Jeppesen said:
So what do you do in your everyday life to make it better? That is what counts.
Click to expand...


Yes I agree, and one of the ways to "make it better" IS to prosecute, try, judge, and carry out the sentence on people who do "wrong, evil and vile" things.

We do not suspend opinions and judgment about their "wrong, evil and vile" doings because the same has been done over and over again.

Tommy Jeppesen said:
This sort of thing has been going on for ages in the name of what ever "excuse" worked ....
Click to expand...


Yes, viruses and diseases and parasites and all sorts of calamities are the causes of disasters and suffering.

When you are trying to fight a particular viral disease you do not say "it has nothing to do in particular with it being an Ebola virus. This sort of thing has been going on for ages caused by whatever...".

You identify the virus causing THIS CURRENT INFECTION and tackle this PARTICULAR VIRUS for now.... you can combat other virus strains when they too start infecting... but we still need to tackle THIS SPECIFIC virus that is CURRENTLY infecting by using treatment aimed at it.


Tommy Jeppesen said:
Okay, what they did was wrong, evil and vile. But you know what - it has nothing to do in particular with them being Christians or theists....
Click to expand...


So is being a Theist in general and Christian in particular conducive to doing wrong, evil and vile things?

The answer is most definitely and emphatically YES.

History proves it most decisively. All you need is to read some of the history of humanity in general and Christian, Muslim, Jews, Hindu, Maya, Aztec etc. etc. nations in particular.

If a person truly believes in a god he might postulate to himself that if his deeds are wrong, evil and vile then surely god would stop him and the fact that he did do it without god stopping him (or even thinking that god told him to do it) is proof that he was justly justified.

But let's have a look at the Christian ETHIC and see if it can be conducive to doing wrong, evil and vile things with a relaxed mindset.

The in and of itself, wrong and evil and vile concept of atonement and salvation by just believing in Christ is a mental opium (see this thread) that can numb and warp a person's faculties while they are succumbing to their base instincts.... “Jesus will forgive me”, they might subconsciously posit and the more they really and truly and deeply believe in the vile concept the more they are numbed and warped in their subconscious as well as conscious thinking.

Much like Christians arguing NOW that it was OK for Jews to genocide and holocaust entire nations and peoples because god ordered it in the bible.

Much like Christians who argue NOW that it was ok for Abraham to go ahead with slaughtering his son because god ordered it.

The same vitiated mental process that caused the above illogic also can cause many other wrong, evil and vile things to be done by individuals as well as groups and even whole nations.

  • The wrong, vile, and evil persecution of Gays and denying them equal citizenship privileges.
  • The wrong, vile and evil mind warping that causes a person to target and kill abortion clinic staff.
  • The wrong, evil and vile obstruction of education based upon rational realities.
  • The wrong, evil and vile support for things that would cause world destruction.
The above and much more are all symptoms of mentally vitiated “thinking” as a result of Christian ethics.

So, yes, evil people can use whatever excuse to justify their deeds, but Christianity (along with Islam and Judaism) IS CURRENTLY BEING used (and has been throughout history) as an extremely effective JUSTISIFICATION as well as CAUSATIVE IMPUTEOUS for wrong, evil and vile deeds.
 
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Mudcat said:
How, in your view, is allowing a private business to keep from providing health care because of contraceptives and allowing a sleazy organization to avoid paying out restitution to victims of its members in any way equally ridiculous?

I would argue that the latter is far more ridiculous and vile than the former, but it is the former that allowed the latter to happen in the first place. It is exactly the slippery slope that I, and others, predicted when the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Hobby Lobby and it's only going to get worse.
Click to expand...

Right now the sincere religious belief is "It's my money, not yours." That's all it was last time.
 
Border Reiver said:
Yes, however the issue is whether the archdiocese should be paying out the claims that have been proven already in court.
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Well, that's *sort* of the issue. The victims aren't going to get a huge settlement regardless, that is the reason this is in Chapter 11. Over 30 million was already paid out to victims when the bankruptcy was filed--so the real issue is how whatever assets that are left are divvied up. It does sound a bit sleazy that they are arguing the cemetery fund should be exempt--however, as Tommy J. *sort* of pointed out (unfortunately in a contentious way) there ARE always two sides to the story, and we are only getting one in the OP.
Some things to possibly consider from the other side is that there are other creditors who are owed money in this Chapter 11 (but their demands aren't as news worthy as the victims') and the possibly bad legal precedence of eliminating the protection a "trust" provides from creditors. If you know anything about trust law, you might have some concerns as well.
 
stanfr said:
Well, that's *sort* of the issue. The victims aren't going to get a huge settlement regardless, that is the reason this is in Chapter 11. Over 30 million was already paid out to victims when the bankruptcy was filed--so the real issue is how whatever assets that are left are divvied up. It does sound a bit sleazy that they are arguing the cemetery fund should be exempt--however, as Tommy J. *sort* of pointed out (unfortunately in a contentious way) there ARE always two sides to the story, and we are only getting one in the OP.
Some things to possibly consider from the other side is that there are other creditors who are owed money in this Chapter 11 (but their demands aren't as news worthy as the victims') and the possibly bad legal precedence of eliminating the protection a "trust" provides from creditors. If you know anything about trust law, you might have some concerns as well.
Click to expand...


This is the Catholic Church we are talking about...no?

Does anyone believe the Catholic Church has gone bankrupt?

Filing Chapter 11 and getting away with this legal loophole is in itself an ADDITIONAL VIOLATION of the violated.... if this particular BRANCH of the BANK OF VATICAN owes money to creditors then let the headquarters pay out.... and let the headquarters of the BANKSTERS of the Catholic Church maintain the cemetery and other obligation of this branch.

Would anyone buy it that if a particular branch of Walmart has gone bankrupt that its creditors go unpaid?

Why is the Vatican J-Mart allowed to get away with such legal shenanigans? When one branch of J-Mart goes bankrupt the J-Mart corporation should still be held responsible for the debts of its branch.

But it looks like the Vatican J-Mart is run as a franchise system maybe??? Maybe we should call it the Vatican J-Mac??
 
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Leumas said:
This is the Catholic Church we are talking about...no?

Does anyone believe the Catholic Church has gone bankrupt?

Filing Chapter 11 and getting away with this legal loophole is in itself an ADDITIONAL VIOLATION of the violated.... if this particular branch of the BANK OF VATICAN owes money to creditors then let the headquarters pay out.
Click to expand...

Yep- I am out of money in my right pocket. My left pocket? Why would you want to look there?
 
Leumas said:
This is the Catholic Church we are talking about...no?

Does anyone believe the Catholic Church has gone bankrupt?

Filing Chapter 11 and getting away with this legal loophole is in itself an ADDITIONAL VIOLATION of the violated.... if this particular branch of the BANK OF VATICAN owes money to creditors then let the headquarters pay out.
Click to expand...

Yup. Take the money and run, that is the RCC MO.
 
Leumas said:
Permit me to try to explain why it has a lot to do with being a Christian in particular and a theist in general.


But first let me address this part




Yes I agree, and one of the ways to "make it better" IS to prosecute, try, judge, and carry out the sentence on people who do "wrong, evil and vile" things.

We do not suspend opinions and judgment about their "wrong, evil and vile" doings because the same has been done over and over again.




Yes, viruses and diseases and parasites and all sorts of calamities are the causes of disasters and suffering.

When you are trying to fight a particular viral disease you do not say "it has nothing to do in particular with it being an Ebola virus. This sort of thing has been going on for ages caused by whatever...".

You identify the virus causing THIS CURRENT INFECTION and tackle this PARTICULAR VIRUS for now.... you can combat other virus strains when they too start infecting... but we still need to tackle THIS SPECIFIC virus that is CURRENTLY infecting by using treatment aimed at it.





So is being a Theist in general and Christian in particular conducive to doing wrong, evil and vile things?

The answer is most definitely and emphatically YES.

History proves it most decisively. All you need is to read some of the history of humanity in general and Christian, Muslim, Jews, Hindu, Maya, Aztec etc. etc. nations in particular.

If a person truly believes in a god he might postulate to himself that if his deeds are wrong, evil and vile then surely god would stop him and the fact that he did do it without god stopping him (or even thinking that god told him to do it) is proof that he was justly justified.

But let's have a look at the Christian ETHIC and see if it can be conducive to doing wrong, evil and vile things with a relaxed mindset.

The in and of itself, wrong and evil and vile concept of atonement and salvation by just believing in Christ is a mental opium (see this thread) that can numb and warp a person's faculties while they are succumbing to their base instincts.... “Jesus will forgive me”, they might subconsciously posit and the more they really and truly and deeply believe in the vile concept the more they are numbed and warped in their subconscious as well as conscious thinking.

Much like Christians arguing NOW that it was OK for Jews to genocide and holocaust entire nations and peoples because god ordered it in the bible.

Much like Christians who argue NOW that it was ok for Abraham to go ahead with slaughtering his son because god ordered it.

The same vitiated mental process that caused the above illogic also can cause many other wrong, evil and vile things to be done by individuals as well as groups and even whole nations.

  • The wrong, vile, and evil persecution of Gays and denying them equal citizenship privileges.
  • The wrong, vile and evil mind warping that causes a person to target and kill abortion clinic staff.
  • The wrong, evil and vile obstruction of education based upon rational realities.
  • The wrong, evil and vile support for things that would cause world destruction.
The above and much more are all symptoms of mentally vitiated “thinking” as a result of Christian ethics.

So, yes, evil people can use whatever excuse to justify their deeds, but Christianity (along with Islam and Judaism) IS CURRENTLY BEING used (and has been throughout history) as an extremely effective JUSTISIFICATION as well as CAUSATIVE IMPUTEOUS for wrong, evil and vile deeds.
Click to expand...

Nominated for TLA.
 
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