Continuation Part 13: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Re Rudy Guede in part 4:

Analysis and Evaluation – the forbidden reasoning The holding of a separate fast-track trial for Guede was to facilitate precisely what the Micheli Sentencing Report alluded to during the Court’s written judgment. It provided Guede with a golden opportunity to minimize his part in the attack upon and murder of Meredith Kercher; loading the blame on to Knox and Sollecito who, by this time were suspected to be the chief architects of the attack. It is submitted that the combined circumstances, including the illicit interviews of Knox and Sollecito by the State Police had already contributed to a conscious or unconscious bias against Knox and Sollecito, which blinded the public, press and organs of the State to potential shortcomings in the motivations for the crime and/or the prosecution evidence which for convenience has been dubbed “the forbidden reasoning”.

Was Guede acting alone? – the Lone Wolf theory Early on in the investigation, the prosecution rejected the notion that Guede was unaccompanied by others (described as the “Lone Wolf theory”). The Micheli Report also rejected the same theory overlooking that its primary function was to decide whether Guede was guilty or not guilty. Instead, the Court was sucked into the question of Guede’s participation and culpability thereby examining in detail the evidence levelled against Knox and Sollecito leading ultimately to a flawed hypothesis. This supports the writer’s contention made earlier, that the holding of separate trials for co-accused was wrong in principle and in law because the prosecution were alleging that all three defendants committed the crime acting in concert.

Re Curatolo in Part 5:

At no stage after making a statement to the authorities was Curatolo asked to identify/recognize the accused by way of some form of identification parade. It is significant that the first time Curatolo was asked formally to pick-out the accused was in court. Dock identifications are notoriously unreliable per se and in the case of Knox and Sollecito it was a near certainty that Curatolo would point to the two accused – bearing in mind their pictures had featured in the local and national press for some considerable time. English law generally disapproves of dock identifications and the reader is referred to case law beginning with R. v. Cartwright (1914) 10 Cr App R 219.

Although Sollecito had resided in Perugia on and off for several years, Knox had only resided there for the best part of six to eight weeks and had only been going out with Sollecito for eight days. Curatolo’s claim that he had seen the two accused together previously appears suspect. He certainly could not have seen them frequently in each other’s company. As will be established later, they were not in the piazzetta the previous day ie, October 31. The evidence also disclosed that many students frequented Piazza Grimana in the relevant time period and the chances of a convincing witness such as Curatolo being mistaken were all too apparent. These dangers have been highlighted time and again by English jurisprudential practice culminating in R. v. Turnbull [1976] 3 All ER 549. This explains why in England and Wales, the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 together with the Codes of Practice, place fairly strict obligations on the police regarding eg, the recognition and identification of suspects; even where some form of identification procedure, at first blush, appears to serve no useful purpose (such as where the witness declares he knows the person concerned): see R. v. Forbes [2001] 1 AC 473, HL. The trial Court also neglected to examine more closely the date on which Curatolo purported to see Knox and Sollecito in the piazzetta. It is significant that in his statement he said there were “…a lot of masks, young people that were joking about, it was a holiday period…” Even if Curatolo had become confused as to the date, with so many young people being present in that location the chances of a mistaken identification was high. It is also noteworthy that when asked to describe hat the two defendants were wearing the best description Curatolo could muster was that both were wearing “dark clothes”.
 
This is an excellent and well-reasoned piece of analysis from a highly-regarded English barrister. I hope that Knox and Sollecito (and their legal teams) have seen it. How did you come across it?

Regarding the trial separation of Guede, this is a point that many of us have also been making for some time, and it could well be a point of relevance for any application to the ECHR on the murder charges (if it gets that far....). This was quite clearly being prosecuted as a "joint enterprise" crime, where Guede, Knox and Sollecito were (according to the prosecution case) acting in concert and with common purpose. Therefore it was fundamentally unlawful for Guede to be allowed to separate his trial from that of Knox and Sollecito.

Of course there may well be much more to this issue than simply an unlawful ruling by the judge to separate the trials. After all, prosecutors knew that by splitting out Guede and "getting" him first, they would establish a number of "judicial truths" without much hassle, which could then be used against Knox and Sollecito in their trials. They also knew that it was strongly in Guede's self-interest to agree that there were others present at the murder - since they knew that his defence was that he was no more than an innocent bystander. So they would have known full well that the near-certain outcome of a Guede fast-track trial separate from that of Knox and Sollecito would be that it would become a "judicial truth" that this was a group attack, and that Guede would be fully prepared to "suggest" Knox and Sollecito as the other participants.
 
Amanda says it was common in that household. In her email home she says: "when i entered i called out if anyone was there, but no one responded".


But that does not describe a common situation at all. Knox is describing the events of the morning of 1st November, when she says she went back to the cottage and found the front door hanging open. That would surely count as a somewhat unusual situation, especially with no visible (or audible) indication of the presence of any other housemates. Therefore it would seem logical, under these circumstances, for Knox to have called out to see if anyone was at home.

On the other hand, it would seem somewhat strange for anyone entering the house in the normal way (i.e. by unlocking the closed and locked front door) to call out to see who else was home. That's not to say it couldn't (or didn't) happen, but it would on its face appear unusual. And it's certainly not the circumstance in which Knox recalls calling out to see if anyone else was there.
 
This is an excellent and well-reasoned piece of analysis from a highly-regarded English barrister. I hope that Knox and Sollecito (and their legal teams) have seen it. How did you come across it?

Regarding the trial separation of Guede, this is a point that many of us have also been making for some time, and it could well be a point of relevance for any application to the ECHR on the murder charges (if it gets that far....). This was quite clearly being prosecuted as a "joint enterprise" crime, where Guede, Knox and Sollecito were (according to the prosecution case) acting in concert and with common purpose. Therefore it was fundamentally unlawful for Guede to be allowed to separate his trial from that of Knox and Sollecito.

Of course there may well be much more to this issue than simply an unlawful ruling by the judge to separate the trials. After all, prosecutors knew that by splitting out Guede and "getting" him first, they would establish a number of "judicial truths" without much hassle, which could then be used against Knox and Sollecito in their trials. They also knew that it was strongly in Guede's self-interest to agree that there were others present at the murder - since they knew that his defence was that he was no more than an innocent bystander. So they would have known full well that the near-certain outcome of a Guede fast-track trial separate from that of Knox and Sollecito would be that it would become a "judicial truth" that this was a group attack, and that Guede would be fully prepared to "suggest" Knox and Sollecito as the other participants.

I was just googling yesterday and came across it.
 
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snip

There is another issue with the doorbell. I've pointed out the phone/intercom on the inside wall in the entryway. The other part of that intercom is outside on the wall by the door and that contains the doorbell button. The problem is, when the security gate is open, that part is covered up. Amanda would have to partially close the gate to ring the doorbell. Raffael wouldn't even know where it was.


The phone/intercom inside is connected to the entrance gate at the top of the driveway....

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=13&image_id=1706
 
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I've uploaded to IA a series of essays by UK Barrister Fred Davies titled "The Brutal Killing of Meredith Kercher" which are on the Criminal Law & Justice Weekly website. http://www.criminallawandjustice.co.uk/features/Brutal-Killing-Meredith-Kercher

Here's the link to download them otherwise you need to be a subscriber to CL&JW: http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=3164

He's read all the primary sources including transcripts and motivation reports and written a legal analysis of the trials and evidence and been posting a new essay weekly since December 2014. He hasn't posted his conclusions yet but it'll be they're innocent and he makes Massei out to be a dunce.

It's really good. I don't think anyone has ever made this kind of effort before to research the case and write such a comprehensive analysis of it.

I would like to alert readers here to some issues in the subject articles; this is a copy of my post on IIP forum:

I haven't yet read all of these articles. They have some good analyses. I am troubled by the occasional important technical error in the write-up, some of which may be attributable to lack of review by a forensic expert. One striking error is the statement in part 8, as I read it, that "blood" was present on the blade of the kitchen knife either by 1) innocent contamination or 2) intentional contamination.

The error is that no blood was detected on the knife. IIUC, the knife blade was never tested for blood. There is an allegation that a tiny amount (apparently about the amount in the volume of 1 or 2 cells) of Meredith Kercher's DNA was on the knife blade. [IIRC, the lab technician, Patrizia Stefanoni, did not claim that the alleged DNA came from blood, but asserted it was from solid tissue, and resided in a groove on the knife blade that she was unable to photograph and which, apparently, other persons have not been able to detect.] This tiny amount of DNA was quantified by a non-measurement using a Qubit fluorometer, which was not suited for the task: the actual reading was "too low" meaning no quantitative result was possible. A rough analogy would be to attempt to measure the size of an atom or molecule using a meter stick or desk ruler. {That is, trying to measure dimension of a millionth of a meter with an instrument only suitable for measuring a thousandth of a meter.} Thus, based upon an objective consideration, there may have been no DNA on the knife blade at all in this instance, and the DNA recorded later, after PCR amplification, may have resulted from laboratory contamination. The denial to the defense by the prosecution of the automatically-generated best evidence of the DNA profiles, the electronic data files, is consistent with the possibility that contamination was present in a number of DNA samples. DNA contamination was observed, contrary to the testimony of Stefanoni, in other quantification results which were obtained by RTqPCR.
 
There was no blood on the knife

Numbers,

To the best of my knowledge the knife was tested three times for blood, twice by Mrs. Stefanoni and once by Drs. Conti and Vecchiotti. In all cases it was negative. This is one of the strongest reasons for believing that the DNA that was observed was not actually present on the blade itself. How could one clean a knife of blood but not of DNA.

I just did a quick read of part 8 this morning. He does not discuss the additional alleles found on the clasp, unless I missed it.
 
Numbers,

To the best of my knowledge the knife was tested three times for blood, twice by Mrs. Stefanoni and once by Drs. Conti and Vecchiotti. In all cases it was negative. This is one of the strongest reasons for believing that the DNA that was observed was not actually present on the blade itself. How could one clean a knife of blood but not of DNA.

I just did a quick read of part 8 this morning. He does not discuss the additional alleles found on the clasp, unless I missed it.

..and the fact the knife was not cleaned, in the crevice area , and didn't show any blood in the crevice area, rules the knife out completely as being used as the police claimed.

Why Stephoni didn't test the dirty crevice area early on? just more shoddy workmanship I guess.
 
It should be also noted that while Machiavelli disparaged them, Drs. Conti and Vecchiotti are court appointed experts not defense experts.
That is if I understand correctly?
 
The photo clearly shows the intercom system on the entrance gate.
How do we know that photo isn't just a photoshop production?


At the time this was first discussed here there was speculation that it would be useful to have an intercom to the front gate if the gate were locked. Google street view showed the mailboxes but there was no intercom resolved.

And of course, why would Amanda ring the doorbell from the outer gate? All accounts were that this gate was always open.

Here again is the front door photo from November 14, 2007 showing the intercom unit to the left. Unlike photos that show up on PMF, this photo has impeccable credentials.

[IMGw=250]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30113&d=1390917924[/IMGw]

And here is a current street view (May 2012)
 

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How do we know that photo isn't just a photoshop production?


At the time this was first discussed here there was speculation that it would be useful to have an intercom to the front gate if the gate were locked. Google street view showed the mailboxes but there was no intercom resolved.

And of course, why would Amanda ring the doorbell from the outer gate? All accounts were that this gate was always open.

Here again is the front door photo from November 14, 2007 showing the intercom unit to the left. Unlike photos that show up on PMF, this photo has impeccable credentials.

[IMGw=250]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30113&d=1390917924[/IMGw]

And here is a current street view (May 2012)


How can I make this any clearer?

See my previous post 2292 with photo showing doorbell......

http://amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/Crime Scene Photos December 18/002.jpg

NO intercom system there.

FYI Amanda did not ring the bell.
 
Hi all,
Using the photographs that Magister linked above,
I zoomed in on both the probable gate intercom system and the front door buzzer, have a look:
picture.php


I'll speculate that the gate intercom has a speaker for speaking into and for hearing from.


Here's a zoom in of the possible door buzzer, there are no voice + hearing speakers seen:
picture.php

I do not know what the digital screen would be for though, do you?

I feel that both are part of the same system,
leading to the phone seen below on the left wall of the foyer,
err, front doorway entrance, which apparently did not work:
picture.php


What do you guys think?
 
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Numbers,

To the best of my knowledge the knife was tested three times for blood, twice by Mrs. Stefanoni and once by Drs. Conti and Vecchiotti. In all cases it was negative. This is one of the strongest reasons for believing that the DNA that was observed was not actually present on the blade itself. How could one clean a knife of blood but not of DNA.

I just did a quick read of part 8 this morning. He does not discuss the additional alleles found on the clasp, unless I missed it.


Thank you for your correction: not only was the blade tested for blood, it was tested 3 times. It was tested 2 times by Patrizia Stefanoni, and 1 time by Drs. Conti and Vecchiotti. {If I write this enough times, I may be able to remember it!}

ETA: Which tests did Stefanoni use, and at what blade locations?
 
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For that we just need to alter the timing of Rudy's March 26, 2008 fantasy slightly and have Amanda arrive a few minutes earlier...

Mignini|Tell us what happened next
|After that I got closer to her but just a normal thing, normal, like this normal, so normal that I have difficulty even expressing it because...
Attorney|No, no tell us, tell us
|We got close and in fact thinking back to the evening of 31 where anyway we had, we had been together, we kissed each other andwe kissed each other but it was the ice-breaker
Mignini|On the lips
|Yes on the mouth and we kissed each other and then it was such a natural thing, so normal that at a certain point I find it difficult to, I dunno...
Mignini|Tell us what happened...
| We touched each other, we caressed each other until I fingered her and at that point she asked if I had a condom and in that moment I realized that perhaps, I think we both realized, that we had gone a bit too far ... I mean we didn’t really know each other... I mean we went a bit too far and at that point we ... I mean Mignini|Interrupted

Assume that this is where Amanda just walked in without announcing herself...

|We got dressed immediately anyway... we got ready and we talked a while... and I had a bit of a stomach ache
Mignini|You dressed, in other words you were nude or...
| I’ll explain, I had pulled my trousers down, Meredith had also pulled her trousers down and we touched each other on the intimate parts, at that point we realized that... Mignini|Where? In the lounge or the bedroom?
|No we were still in the lounge, in the kitchen/lounge

So it would be customary for someone entering a shared apartment to announce themselves as in:

Rudy Guede |in any case when entering she said the same thing in English. I’ll say it in Italian as you usually say when someone enters “oh is anybody home? I’ve arrived”

Roommates also would know better than to start getting naked in public spaces (or at least that's the way it was when I was in school).


There is another issue with the doorbell. I've pointed out the phone/intercom on the inside wall in the entryway. The other part of that intercom is outside on the wall by the door and that contains the doorbell button. The problem is, when the security gate is open, that part is covered up. Amanda would have to partially close the gate to ring the doorbell. Raffael wouldn't even know where it was.

Just curious. Anyone here find the highlighted section above believable? Has anyone here, or anyone you know, ever gotten to the point Rudy says he and Meredith got to, then decided to stop?

It's not impossible, but strikes me as very unlikely. My perception is that it is his way of explaining how his DNA got inside Meredith, while still claiming all was hunky dory about this, and that he did not kill her.
 
Hi all,
Using the photographs that Magister linked above,
I zoomed in on both the probable gate intercom system and the front door buzzer, have a look:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=480&pictureid=9534[/qimg]

I'll speculate that the gate intercom has a speaker for speaking into and for hearing from.


Here's a zoom in of the possible door buzzer, there are no voice + hearing speakers seen:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=480&pictureid=9535[/qimg]
I do not know what the digital screen would be for though, do you?I feel that both are part of the same system,
leading to the phone seen below on the left wall of the foyer,
err, front doorway entrance, which apparently did not work:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=480&pictureid=9536[/qimg]

What do you guys think?


Do you mean that grey strip above the button? That looks more like somewhere to put a name label than a digital screen.
 
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