Continuation Part 13: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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RWVBWL said:
Hi Jungle Jim,
You brought up a point that I had considered years ago when I saw these 2 images.

But both of these guys were dressed to hide, while testifying in court.
I'm sure that there are more than a few here on ISF who have been inside a courtroom, so I'll ask: have you ever seen a person testify in court dressed like this? I never have, be it civil or criminal court here in Los Angeles.

I know that there are a few law professionals who participate here,
have you ever seen someone dressed like this to give courtroom testimony?

It's Stefano Bonassi's appearance that has me wondering.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=480&pictureid=9531[/qimg]

I'd think that Giacomo Silenzi would have been the 1,
if any, of the boyz downstairs or the girlz upstairs to cover up, trying to escape the media coverage. Giacomo was Meredith last luver, he might have wanted to keep out of the public eye. But Stefano?

I wonder what Giacomo, Marco, Riccardo, Laura and Filomena wore when they testified. Did they too disguise their appearance by wearing a hoody and sunglasses to The Massei Court?

There's something odd about Stefano's dress, that's all I'm pointing out, well that and the fact that 6 years after he testified in Amanda and Raffaele's 1st Trial, there still does not seem to be a definite answer from Stefano Bonassi himself regarding how he left his bed, was it made, was there blood on it when he left?
RW


Oh wait a sec,
a question for you folks:
Laura and Filomena lawyered up immediately, right?

Did Giacomo and Stefano and the other boyz lawyer up immediately too?
Giacomo was growing pot...
Click to expand...
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I know I've written this before, but I'd sure like to know what happened to those darn pot plants. It's probably got nothing to do with the murder... but then again...

d

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AmyStrange said:
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I know I've written this before, but I'd sure like to know what happened to those darn pot plants. It's probably got nothing to do with the murder... but then again...

d

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Click to expand...

Better still, what happened to Filomena? Or any of the others of Italian descent who went through that house?

Filomena was asked at trial if she smoked marijuana. Her answer, "Yes, I have sinned."

DOMANDA – Un’altra cosa, lei ha parlato del consumo di
stupefacenti saltuario di Amanda e di Raffaele, sa se i
ragazzi del piano di sotto usavano stupefacente e se sì
quale tipo di stupefacente?
RISPOSTA – Penso lo stesso tipo di stupefacenti, fumo,
hascisc.
DOMANDA – Lei l’ha usato con loro?
RISPOSTA – Io dico la verità, ho peccato una volta. Ho
peccato.
DOMANDA – Siamo tutti peccatori.
RISPOSTA – Ho peccato.

QUESTION - You used it with them?
ANSWER - I tell the truth, I have sinned once. I have
too bad.
QUESTION - We are all sinners.
ANSWER - I have sinned.
Click to expand...

​
Click to expand...

Perhaps the only lie everyone can agree on that Amanda told was the same lie all the women upstairs told - about the marijuana use in the cottage.

My theory is that the police/PM used this as a lever on all of them for cooperation with the prosecution.
 
AmyStrange said:
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Very interesting. Thanx Dan.

Why would Raffaele or Amanda ring the doorbell?

d

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ETA: Raffaele might ring it if he's there alone.

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Click to expand...
For anyone new to the case, this is a good question. People should understand that Rudy Guede never made a claim/statement inculpating the defendants until their alibis had been effectively foreclosed by Mignini's manouvers.
 
AmyStrange said:
Why would Raffaele or Amanda ring the doorbell?
Click to expand...


For that we just need to alter the timing of Rudy's March 26, 2008 fantasy slightly and have Amanda arrive a few minutes earlier...

Mignini|Tell us what happened next
|After that I got closer to her but just a normal thing, normal, like this normal, so normal that I have difficulty even expressing it because...
Attorney|No, no tell us, tell us
|We got close and in fact thinking back to the evening of 31 where anyway we had, we had been together, we kissed each other andwe kissed each other but it was the ice-breaker
Mignini|On the lips
|Yes on the mouth and we kissed each other and then it was such a natural thing, so normal that at a certain point I find it difficult to, I dunno...
Mignini|Tell us what happened...
|We touched each other, we caressed each other until I fingered her and at that point she asked if I had a condom and in that moment I realized that perhaps, I think we both realized, that we had gone a bit too far ... I mean we didn’t really know each other... I mean we went a bit too far and at that point we ... I mean
Mignini|Interrupted

Assume that this is where Amanda just walked in without announcing herself...

|We got dressed immediately anyway... we got ready and we talked a while... and I had a bit of a stomach ache
Mignini|You dressed, in other words you were nude or...
|I’ll explain, I had pulled my trousers down, Meredith had also pulled her trousers down and we touched each other on the intimate parts, at that point we realized that...
Mignini|Where? In the lounge or the bedroom?
|No we were still in the lounge, in the kitchen/lounge

So it would be customary for someone entering a shared apartment to announce themselves as in:

Rudy Guede |in any case when entering she said the same thing in English. I’ll say it in Italian as you usually say when someone enters “oh is anybody home? I’ve arrived”

Roommates also would know better than to start getting naked in public spaces (or at least that's the way it was when I was in school).


There is another issue with the doorbell. I've pointed out the phone/intercom on the inside wall in the entryway. The other part of that intercom is outside on the wall by the door and that contains the doorbell button. The problem is, when the security gate is open, that part is covered up. Amanda would have to partially close the gate to ring the doorbell. Raffael wouldn't even know where it was.
 
Bill Williams said:
Better still, what happened to Filomena? Or any of the others of Italian descent who went through that house?

Filomena was asked at trial if she smoked marijuana. Her answer, "Yes, I have sinned."

​

Perhaps the only lie everyone can agree on that Amanda told was the same lie all the women upstairs told - about the marijuana use in the cottage.

My theory is that the police/PM used this as a lever on all of them for cooperation with the prosecution.
Click to expand...


What are the Italian marijuana usage laws? I'm not sure that Amanda's or the other flatmates' consumption was illegal.
 
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Samson said:
For anyone new to the case, this is a good question. People should understand that Rudy Guede never made a claim/statement inculpating the defendants until their alibis had been effectively foreclosed by Mignini's manouvers.
Click to expand...
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It's difficult to take anything Rudy says after this Skype call. I personally think most of it is the truth, and I base that on the skill it takes to tell a good lie.

Anyone who has told a lot of lies knows the secret is in only lying about what you have to (in Rudy's Skype call, that means saying someone else was the murderer) and telling the truth about everything else.

The second secret is the use of details. The more details, the more truthful it sounds. Of course, the more details, the easier it is to trip you up if you're lying,

d

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sept79 said:
What are the Italian marijuana usage laws? I'm not sure that Amanda's or the other flatmates' consumption was illegal.
Click to expand...

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_country

Possession of small amounts for personal use is a misdemeanor subject to fines and the suspension of documents (passports and/or drivers licenses). The sale of cannabis products is illegal and punishable by imprisonment; cultivation is likewise punishable by imprisonment, even if in small amounts and for exclusive personal use. Licensed cultivation for medical and industrial use is strictly regulated.​
Click to expand...
 
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Bill Williams said:
Better still, what happened to Filomena? Or any of the others of Italian descent who went through that house?

Filomena was asked at trial if she smoked marijuana. Her answer, "Yes, I have sinned."

​

Perhaps the only lie everyone can agree on that Amanda told was the same lie all the women upstairs told - about the marijuana use in the cottage.

My theory is that the police/PM used this as a lever on all of them for cooperation with the prosecution.
Click to expand...
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Yes, that's the only real lie I can see from Amanda also, is the smoking pot lie. Everything else I don't really consider a lie, at least not like the pot lie anyway. Although, some people consider the confession (accusation) a lie, and I would think that also if it weren't for what De Felice said the next day about her breaking and finally telling them what they already knew to be true. At worst, it's probably a coerced lie more than anything else.

That and the fact that they didn't videotape the interrogation.

Because of that, I don't know who to believe, but what spins it to coercion is what De Felice said the next day, and the fact that there are no details about the murder at all in Amanda's confession (accusation).

Another thing I've been thinking over in this area is how Raffaele reported that there was nothing missing while he was reporting the window broken (if I remember correctly), and I think I would have said the same thing if I saw Filomena's laptop on the desk in the same room with the broken window.

But, that's me,

d

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AmyStrange said:
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It's difficult to take anything Rudy says after this Skype call. I personally think most of it is the truth, and I base that on the skill it takes to tell a good lie.

Anyone who has told a lot of lies knows the secret is in only lying about what you have to (in Rudy's Skype call, that means saying someone else was the murderer) and telling the truth about everything else.

The second secret is the use of details. The more details, the more truthful it sounds. Of course, the more details, the easier it is to trip you up if you're lying,

d

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Click to expand...
What complicated webs I weave when first I practice to deceive
and so on.
Guede was intent on not weaving that web, oh why can't catnip, jar, tomm etc see this?
 
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sept79 said:
What are the Italian marijuana usage laws? I'm not sure that Amanda's or the other flatmates' consumption was illegal.
Click to expand...
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Even here in the US, consumption is not illegal, it's possession that's illegal. Mach once explained what the laws are in Italy, but I don't want to misquote her/him, so you can look it up (it was in Part 12, I think), or ask her/him the next time he shows up,

d

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Dan O. said:
For that we just need to alter the timing of Rudy's March 26, 2008 fantasy slightly and have Amanda arrive a few minutes earlier...

Mignini|Tell us what happened next
|After that I got closer to her but just a normal thing, normal, like this normal, so normal that I have difficulty even expressing it because...
Attorney|No, no tell us, tell us
|We got close and in fact thinking back to the evening of 31 where anyway we had, we had been together, we kissed each other andwe kissed each other but it was the ice-breaker
Mignini|On the lips
|Yes on the mouth and we kissed each other and then it was such a natural thing, so normal that at a certain point I find it difficult to, I dunno...
Mignini|Tell us what happened...
|We touched each other, we caressed each other until I fingered her and at that point she asked if I had a condom and in that moment I realized that perhaps, I think we both realized, that we had gone a bit too far ... I mean we didn’t really know each other... I mean we went a bit too far and at that point we ... I mean
Mignini|Interrupted

Assume that this is where Amanda just walked in without announcing herself...

|We got dressed immediately anyway... we got ready and we talked a while... and I had a bit of a stomach ache
Mignini|You dressed, in other words you were nude or...
|I’ll explain, I had pulled my trousers down, Meredith had also pulled her trousers down and we touched each other on the intimate parts, at that point we realized that...
Mignini|Where? In the lounge or the bedroom?
|No we were still in the lounge, in the kitchen/lounge

So it would be customary for someone entering a shared apartment to announce themselves as in:

Rudy Guede |in any case when entering she said the same thing in English. I’ll say it in Italian as you usually say when someone enters “oh is anybody home? I’ve arrived”

Roommates also would know better than to start getting naked in public spaces (or at least that's the way it was when I was in school).


There is another issue with the doorbell. I've pointed out the phone/intercom on the inside wall in the entryway. The other part of that intercom is outside on the wall by the door and that contains the doorbell button. The problem is, when the security gate is open, that part is covered up. Amanda would have to partially close the gate to ring the doorbell. Raffael wouldn't even know where it was.
Click to expand...
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My question would be, what did Raffaele and Amanda do the next day, did they ring the bell before going in? Did Amanda when she went home earlier?

What did they do normally.

I have to be honest, I've lived with a lot of people, and I don't remember me or any of them ever ringing the doorbell before coming in the house, ever.

I didn't even know that was a protocol that other people used,

d

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AmyStrange said:
Another thing I've been thinking over in this area is how Raffaele reported that there was nothing missing while he was reporting the window broken (if I remember correctly), and I think I would have said the same thing if I saw Filomena's laptop on the desk in the same room with the broken window.
Click to expand...

Remember, this wasn't the first call Raffaele made to the police in this instance. The first call Raffaele made was to his sister in the carabinieri. She wouldn't just tell her brother to call the emergency services. She first would get the basics which would necessarily require asking if anything was stollen. To save time, Raffaele offers the response before the question is asked in the subsequent call.

In any case, Raffaele is wrong. We know for certain that Meredith's phones were stollen. And Meredith's cash and credit cards appear to be missing.
 
AmyStrange said:
I have to be honest, I've lived with a lot of people, and I don't remember me or any of them ever ringing the doorbell before coming in the house, ever.

I didn't even know that was a protocol that other people used,

d

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Click to expand...


Amanda says it was common in that household. In her email home she says: "when i entered i called out if anyone was there, but no one responded".
 
Numbers said:
If growing mj even if only for personal use was a crime that could result in imprisonment, then Mignini had a metaphorical club to hold over the downstairs boys to prevent them from speaking out of turn regarding the strange blood stains, the mess, or anything missing (such as clothing) from the downstairs apartment.
Click to expand...

I'm shocked, shocked I say, that you would think of such a thing coming to mind with Mr. Mignini. Shocked.
 
Dan O. said:
Amanda says it was common in that household. In her email home she says: "when i entered i called out if anyone was there, but no one responded".
Click to expand...
Machiavelli says Amanda was certain that no one was possibly home. Either Amanda is writing a careful script in her email or Machiavelli is flat out making false statements.
 
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Dan O. said:
Amanda says it was common in that household. In her email home she says: "when i entered i called out if anyone was there, but no one responded".
Click to expand...
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Thanx Dan, but I'm not talking about shouting out, I'm talking about ringing the doorbell.

I've done the shout out thing.

Now that I think about it, it's not really that bad an idea as a shout out, to ring the doorbell, but I'd get pissed after a few times, especially if I'm gettin' busy or sleeping or taking a shower or right in the middle of something important or whatever.

Of course, if you were trying to catch your better-half cheating, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to do it then either,

d

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How could Machiavelli be certain about what Amanda knows when Filomena testified that she was the one that told Amanda that Laura was out of town?
 
Dan O. said:
How could Machiavelli be certain about what Amanda knows when Filomena testified that she was the one that told Amanda that Laura was out of town?
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Machiavelli slipped his assertation into this forum, did he think no one would notice that he also struggled with the loud crashing noise at midnight with a dead body in the house?
Machiavelli might/will return to be very specific about his statement. It was definitive. Dan O has now noted a logical impossibility that Machiavelli's assertion can be reconciled with court testimony in the most important trial, the first one.
 
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I've uploaded to IA a series of essays by UK Barrister Fred Davies titled "The Brutal Killing of Meredith Kercher" which are on the Criminal Law & Justice Weekly website. http://www.criminallawandjustice.co.uk/features/Brutal-Killing-Meredith-Kercher

Here's the link to download them otherwise you need to be a subscriber to CL&JW: http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=3164

He's read all the primary sources including transcripts and motivation reports and written a legal analysis of the trials and evidence and been posting a new essay weekly since December 2014. He hasn't posted his conclusions yet but it'll be they're innocent and he makes Massei out to be a dunce.

It's really good. I don't think anyone has ever made this kind of effort before to research the case and write such a comprehensive analysis of it.
 
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