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Global warming discussion III

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China and India also have large scale research programs in thorium fuelled reactors. As far as I'm aware the only other major thorium project is in Norway (the UK is providing the fuel for it).
 
Fudbucker said:
Chinese cities have had horrific air quality for years. It hasn't stopped anything. The Chinese people are not going to revolt because it's smoggy.
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Chinese people are going to choke and drop dead in the streets if things get much worse, and Party members will not be immune. There is a practical limit. One should also take account of the impact of airborne pollution on agriculture and water-quality, which carry their own costs.

If Nixon could take action so can the Chinese government and I'm sure they will. They've been making the right noises recently; I haven't followed the subject closely (the world is very busy these days) but whenever China does something it does it on an enormous scale - it's in the nature of the place.
 
CapelDodger said:
If Nixon could take action so can the Chinese government and I'm sure they will. They've been making the right noises recently; I haven't followed the subject closely (the world is very busy these days) but whenever China does something it does it on an enormous scale - it's in the nature of the place.
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They are stealing all our carbon. If they succeed we will be totally screwed. They will become the people feeding the world and we will become the "starving Chinese" of the future.

How ecological restoration alters ecosystem services: an analysis of carbon sequestration in China's Loess Plateau

"The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself." - Franklin D. Roosevelt
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bit_pattern said:
I look at that chart and I see the biggest collapse in US coal exports outside of the events around the great recession of 2008 - that's China and, yes, it does look encouraging, Is it ideal? No but it is encouraging.



I know we've danced this dance before but I don't think you really understand the dynamics of Chinese politics.



China is peaking it's coal consumption as we speak and will be rolling out 1000 GW of new renewable capacity and around 200 GW (iirc, that's just off the top of my head) of new nuclear capacity over the next 15 years.
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Well, we have had this discussion. I guess I just have a dimmer view of human nature.
 
bit_pattern said:
I look at that chart and I see the biggest collapse in US coal exports outside of the events around the great recession of 2008 - that's China and, yes, it does look encouraging, Is it ideal? No but it is encouraging.



I know we've danced this dance before but I don't think you really understand the dynamics of Chinese politics.



China is peaking it's coal consumption as we speak and will be rolling out 1000 GW of new renewable capacity and around 200 GW (iirc, that's just off the top of my head) of new nuclear capacity over the next 15 years.
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My point with the graph was that even under a Democratic President, with a Democratic Congress (for two years), nothing was done to reduce coal exports.

Your optimism about China might be tempered with this other graph:

url]


I guess you'll have to click on it. It shows a rising rate of Chinese production and consumption of coal to 2012. Our exports might have fallen because China didn't import so much, but it wasn't due to lack of Chinese coal consumption. They've been producing (and consuming it) like crazy since 2000.

China already has over 500 large coal-fired power plants. I don't think they're going to let them sit idly while they build windmills.
 
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CapelDodger said:
bit_pattern is just some mortal who posts on the internet; he can't tame two cyclones at the same time, one in each hand. You need Al Gore or Obama for that sort of thing.
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I'm having a vision. I see Obama and Gore in matching green spandex ("No capes!") saving the world from evil polluters. Righting wrongs by wronging the Right!
 
Haig: The science is that we are not heading into a new Ice age

Haig said:
Not really any contradiction Mikemcc ... climate change can occur in stages and now we are at that change

Global Signatures and Dynamical Origins of the Little Ice Age and Medieval Climate Anomaly pdf
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Sorry, Haig, that is a paper amazingly about the Little Ice Age and Medieval Climate Anomaly and in no way supports your assertion :jaw-dropp!

That sounds like the climate change myth about a new LIA that you have repeated many times elsewhere, Haig. So here is the science for you to deny yet again:
Are we heading into a new Ice Age?
The warming effect from more CO2 greatly outstrips the influence from changes in the Earth's orbit or solar activity, even if solar levels were to drop to Maunder Minimum levels.
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Or maybe this is the "we are coming out of the LIA" myth: What ended the Little Ice Age?
The main drivers of the Little Ice Age cooling were decreased solar activity and increased volcanic activity. These factors cannot account for the global warming observed over the past 50-100 years. Furthermore, it is physically incorrect to state that the planet is simply "recovering" from the Little Ice Age.
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Haig said:
We are still unsure what is causing the movement of the Jet Stream!

The Jet Stream
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No, Haig, that is not what that web page says. It says that the causes of the jet stream are well known as are factors that change its position.
Specifically, the jet stream is caused by the meeting of air masses just under the tropopause where winds are the strongest. When two air masses of different densities meet here, the pressure created by the different densities causes winds to increase. As these winds attempt to flow from the warm area in the nearby stratosphere down into the cooler troposphere they are deflected by the Coriolis Effect and flow along the boundaries of the original two air masses. The results are the polar and subtropical jet streams that form around the world.
...
In addition, various climatic factors can cause the jet stream to shift and dramatically change an area's weather patterns ...
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Haig said:
Eastern U.S. record breaking cold and snow as seen from space

I think this is a great comment and is hard to argue with! Anyone care to ?
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No, Haig. This is a thread on global warming. That is an article about weather - what is worse is quoting a random commenter on that article :p.
She does have a couple of links to past Ice Ages that are irrelevant to the causes of AGW. No one is going to argue that the last Ice Age did not exist :eek:.
 
Warming pushes Western U.S. toward driest period in 1,000 years: Unprecedented risk of drought in 21st century
Date:
February 12, 2015
Source:
The Earth Institute at Columbia University
Summary:
During the second half of the 21st century, the US Southwest and Great Plains will face persistent drought worse than anything seen in times ancient or modern, with the drying conditions 'driven primarily' by human-induced global warming, a new study predicts.
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how come this is not your headline Haig.....you do know the west coast has been busted heat records all over including in Alaska where they had to move the Iditerod 300 miles north to find snow.

Nationally, it's been one of the warmest winters on record - USA Today
www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2015/02/.../warm-winter/23510107/‎
Doyle Rice, USA TODAY 11:09 a.m. EST February 17, 2015 ... The U.S. is having its sixth-warmest winter on record, according to data from the National Climatic ...
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Is your quote related to AGW - absolutely - the NH jet stream has weakened due to a warmer Arctic creating rather frequent Arctic Dipole conditions that sees super cold polar air normally confined by the jet stream plunging south instead.

It's been discussed innumerable times Haig but your attention span is evidently limited.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10238010&postcount=871

warmarctic_coldcontinents_300.png


This winter for the entire US is one of the warmest on record....but do go on clutching at straws...just confirms our opinion of the bankruptcy of the AGW denier argument these days.....there is no merit to it at all.

One of the early extinction events of the Anthropocene will be
horribilis negator climate mutatio
 
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Bout time Willie Soon was outed for the fraud he is...

Wei-Hock Soon, a leading climate change denier whose work has fortified right-wing political arguments for years, was paid more than $1.2 million by energy companies, The New York Times reports. New documents uncovered by Greenpeace via the Freedom of Information Act show that over the last decade, Soon received sizable funding from oil and gas corporations, which he failed to disclose in scientific papers he published.
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Report at The Verge
http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/22/8...?lang=en-au&uid=144957538&china_variant=False

The original report in The New York Times is far more damning, noting that he does not have the qualifications he claims to, and that he will be investigated for his malfeasance by his employer.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/u...ate-change-researcher-Wei-Hock-Soon.html?_r=0
 
macdoc said:
Bout time Willie Soon was outed for the fraud he is...
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... allegedly ;).

One wonders how the denialists will handle this. Ignore it? Play the victim card? Algore algore algore benghazi? Michael Mann does it too? "Nobody ever said it was the Sun!"?

And the big question : will Chrissie Monckton discover Soon was getting paid more than him and throw a hissy-fit? What a joy that would be.
 
CapelDodger said:
One wonders how the denialists will handle this. Ignore it? Play the victim card? Algore algore algore benghazi? Michael Mann does it too? "Nobody ever said it was the Sun!"?
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Part ignore because Greenpeace

Accuse Greg Laden of lying

Compare the amount spent by governments on global warming with the amounts spent by the Coke brothers and Exxon

I am sure they could come up with more, but that is what I have seen so far.

Over at House of Curry, they are beating up the luke warmers over the temperature record, and not doing a very good job of it.
 
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