Merged Ukraine erupts in riots and general strike.

[CapelDodger]

The word Fascist and Right-wing is being thrown around a lot these days.

Not just these days, I've had to put up with it all my life and it's damned irritating for those of us who've taken the trouble to find out what "fascist" signifies, with all its complexity.

Fascists in Russia, on the other hand, already hold three times bigger and ten times richer state,

No, they don't. Putin's regime and system is not Fascist. Putin's system is authoritarian, while fascism is totalitarian - it intrudes into every facet of life. Authoritarians intrude as much as they think necessary and no more. It's a crucial distinction.

Putin's war on gays is his own personal issue which he's being allowed to indulge but it's in no way fundamental to the system.

 

[CapelDodger]

The Ukrainian Narrative Is Fast Unraveling

The Ukrainian narrative is fast unfolding.

 

[Aber]

The fighting also helps the Ukrainian narrative on the international stage - it reinforces the idea that Putin was not negotiating in good faith. As a result the EU imposed extra sanctions on Monday; if the ceasefire had held completely, then I don't think this would have happened.

 

[McHrozni]

National identities are usually created in opposition to some other national identity. This war could be the making of Ukraine - and I'm not the only person to be thinking that. I'm just the one with the least influence on events.

Many national identities trace their origins to a war. For Germany it was the triumph in Franco-Prussian war, for Spain and Portugal it was reconquista. For Netherlands the Dutch revolt in 16th century was crucial, US had Revolutionary war and so on. It could very well be this war will be what Ukraine needed to turn from a state with a Ukrainian majority to a Ukrainian nation-state.

The process can still be derailed by a half-hearted peace deal, followed by a massive worsening of corruption in Ukraine, making people almost ashamed of being ukrainians once again. But barring that, I don't see any option of this not happening, regardless of the result - up to and especially in the case of Russia occupying and annexing all of Ukraine.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

No, they don't. Putin's regime and system is not Fascist. Putin's system is authoritarian, while fascism is totalitarian - it intrudes into every facet of life. Authoritarians intrude as much as they think necessary and no more. It's a crucial distinction.

Putin's war on gays is his own personal issue which he's being allowed to indulge but it's in no way fundamental to the system.

http://www.worldpolicy.org/blog/2014/05/12/why-it’s-time-start-calling-putin-fascist
http://www.spiegel.de/international...utin-betray-fascist-inspiration-a-967283.html
http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.com/2015/02/putins-russia-is-already-classic.html

Identify this bird: it walks, swims, dives, quacks, looks exactly like and has a DNA of a duck. Do you think it is a duck?

War on gays is just one tiny aspect of the whole thing, a part which I don't even find particularily important. The economic system, where big companies run in bed with the government is quite vital and it follows fascist patterns closely. Political system is no different from classical fascism in any way. He identifies with glorious past, engages in virulent nationalism, creates youth groups to bully and intimidiate the opposition ... . He is confident his nation and values are superior to all others, and must fight moral decay of West. He seeks to unite all Russians in Russia by retaking historical wrongs. What is this, if not fascist?

Furthermore, whereas I agree with your distinction of authoritarianism from totalitarianism, I think that both assertions you make are wrong. Fascism is not necessarily totalitarian, nor is Putler's Russia just authoritarian - it has significant totalitarian tendencies.

http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.com/2014/05/window-on-eurasia-putins-russia-already.html

I wouldn't call it totalitarian (yet), but he certainly is going from "intrude no more than I have to" point towards something worse.

Do you have any important aspects of fascism not present in Russia? I can't think of any.

McHrozni

 

[crescent]

The Ukrainian Narrative Is Fast Unraveling

Poroshenko and the Ukrainian government have also failed on a second, even larger lie. They emphatically denied the existence of the Debaltsevo (Debaltseve) cauldron. This was after the armed forces of the Donetsk and Lugansk republics announced that up to 9000 Ukrainian forces had been surrounded and cut off from resupply.

And yet, despite being cut off, they have managed to withdraw 80% of their forces and equipment in one day.

It could be that Ukraine now has magic Star-Trek transporter technology and have used it to implement the withdrawl. Or, it could be that the "Cauldron" was not a cauldron but a salient, albeit one that was in danger of being cut off and for which access was frequently difficult.

 

[carlitos]

Yeah, but that's reality. What fun is reporting on reality, when you can report Putin's talking points?

 

[jimbob]

The Ukrainian Narrative Is Fast Unraveling

The desperation of Poroshenko to secure money and weaponry for a catastrophically bankrupt and corrupt Ukraine has been emphasized by his increased theatrics. His quick to be disproved unveiling of fake Russian passports at the Munich Security Council is a key indicator of a shift in public discourse. Instead of again immediately blaming Russia, people pointed out that Russian soldiers do not have passports, but military IDs. Poroshenko was caught red-handed in a blatant lie on the world stage.

That shows nothing. If acknowledged Russian servicemen have been in Crimea without unit markings or anything (except their equipment) identifying them as Russian, one can't say that any Russian servicemen in Ukraine would have military IDs.

Alternatively some people fighting on the separatist side might be Russian nationals. They might be there on their own initiative, or sponsored by the Russian state - like Igor Strelkov, "the coordinator of those "Donetsk people's republic forces"" who admitted that he was sponsored by Russia

Meanwhile here is a Guardian article about Bellingcat (Brown Moses) using open information to give even stronger evidence of Russian state involvement.

The Bellingcat team analysed crater patterns from satellite photos of three battlefields where the Ukrainian army came under particularly savage attack last summer and traced the estimated trajectories back to likely firing positions, where it identified scorch marks and tyre tracks on satellite images consistent with Russian rocket-launchers.

With a single exception, the identified firing positions were on Russian soil. Furthermore, the tracks to and from the firing positions led further inside Russia, further evidence that they were Russian units, not separatist fighters who had strayed across the border. Images of the same terrain just before the attacks show no track marks or scorched earth.

An independent military forensics expert warned that the accuracy of crater analysis in determining direction of fire on the basis of satellite photography was scientifically unproven, but said that the images of firing positions on the Russian side of the border were compelling and raised questions of what they were doing there.

This thread is getting long so I have opened a continuation thread HERE. The split point was arbitrary and please feel free to quote posts here into the new thread.

Posted By: Agatha