Continuation Part 13: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[AmyStrange]

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that when the ISC convenes on March 25th it will not review the entire Nencini motivation; it will only address complaints by the appellants in addition to any constitutional issues raised by them.

If the above is right -- and with Nencini translated, and summaries of the appeals by Amanda and Raffaele available -- I wonder if any here have a sense of how this should go down. If the case is completely political at this point then of course the court will simply do whatever it wants. But suppose the judges are sincere. How then ought they rule on the points of appeal and on what grounds?

I'm not an attorney but FWIW my sense is that other than a fix there is no way the ISC can confirm Nencini. I think they will most likely sent it back to the second level, possibly retrying the defendants separately. Less likely is that they will simply dismiss the charges. But I see now way they can confirm Nencini.

Anybody willing to venture an opinion?

Thanks.

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I have a feeling they will not confirm and send it back down, along with a precise list of things they will want looked at again.

I have nothing to back my feelings with, it's just a feeling I have,

d

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[Numbers]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that when the ISC convenes on March 25th it will not review the entire Nencini motivation; it will only address complaints by the appellants in addition to any constitutional issues raised by them.

If the above is right -- and with Nencini translated, and summaries of the appeals by Amanda and Raffaele available -- I wonder if any here have a sense of how this should go down. If the case is completely political at this point then of course the court will simply do whatever it wants. But suppose the judges are sincere. How then ought they rule on the points of appeal and on what grounds?

I'm not an attorney but FWIW my sense is that other than a fix there is no way the ISC can confirm Nencini. I think they will most likely sent it back to the second level, possibly retrying the defendants separately. Less likely is that they will simply dismiss the charges. But I see now way they can confirm Nencini.

Anybody willing to venture an opinion?

Thanks.

My pet theory, based totally on conjecture, is that they will send the case to a 3rd 2nd-level appeal trial because then they won't need to make a decision for another year or two, and also they will put off a spanking from the ECHR until some more distant date than if they were to finalize in March or April, 2015. My crystal ball (which actually is highly fogged over) assures me there is a 35% probability of this happening, with a margin of error of +/- 5%. {Note, these quantities have been totally manufactured from my imagination - yet, they are not imaginary numbers. I will call them made-up-iary numbers.} There is a 33% probability that the CSC will finalize with a guilty verdict, and a 32% probability that the CSC will finalize by reinstating the Hellmann acquittal. All margins of error are +/- 5%, and the probabilities have been carefully calculated to total to 100%.

I am confident that whatever happens, my use of made-up-iary numbers will allow me to state that I sort of predicted it, maybe.

ETA: I didn't like my original made-up-iary probabilities so I changed them a bit. There was no reason to do this, but I enjoyed exercising arbitrary power over helpless entities (just like those Italian judges....).

 

[MichaelB]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that when the ISC convenes on March 25th it will not review the entire Nencini motivation; it will only address complaints by the appellants in addition to any constitutional issues raised by them.

If the above is right -- and with Nencini translated, and summaries of the appeals by Amanda and Raffaele available -- I wonder if any here have a sense of how this should go down. If the case is completely political at this point then of course the court will simply do whatever it wants. But suppose the judges are sincere. How then ought they rule on the points of appeal and on what grounds?

I'm not an attorney but FWIW my sense is that other than a fix there is no way the ISC can confirm Nencini. I think they will most likely sent it back to the second level, possibly retrying the defendants separately. Less likely is that they will simply dismiss the charges. But I see now way they can confirm Nencini.

Anybody willing to venture an opinion?

Thanks.

I think it'll be confirmed and Raffaele will be arrested immediately if he doesn't run. The police will be waiting outside wherever he lives waiting for confirmation there's been a definitive conviction. A few weeks after that, Italy will request extradition and Amanda will be arrested immediately and taken to SeaTac. She'll apply for bail which has a small chance of being granted and her appeals will go on for years all the way up to the Supreme Court.

That is how I see it playing out.

Raffaele will get day release after 6 years and probably not have to sleep at the prison if he can find a job and a wife. So he'd be out by the time he's 36 and have 50 years ahead of him.

 

[Desert Fox]

And eventually Italy will have to pay out millions along with the United States if they detain Amanda

 

[AmyStrange]

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I think it'll be confirmed and Raffaele will be arrested immediately if he doesn't run. The police will be waiting outside wherever he lives waiting for confirmation there's been a definitive conviction. A few weeks after that, Italy will request extradition and Amanda will be arrested immediately and taken to SeaTac. She'll apply for bail which has a small chance of being granted and her appeals will go on for years all the way up to the Supreme Court.

That is how I see it playing out.

Raffaele will get day release after 6 years and probably not have to sleep at the prison if he can find a job and a wife. So he'd be out by the time he's 36 and have 50 years ahead of him.

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Yeah, sadly, that's probably what's really going to happen...

d

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[Desert Fox]

Yeah, sadly, that's probably what's going to really happen...

I hope the department of state does not arrest Amanda and I think there is some real hope there at least.

 

[Planigale]

But, "completely involved" in this crime is not the same thing of committing a burglary through Filomena's room and committing a post-mortem sexual violence. These are different actions.
(Not to speak about the unproven details like washing up in the bathroom or stealing the phones and locking the door).

And let's make one thing clear: the concept of burden of proof, reasonable doubt and fair trial works for everybody, including the worst criminals. The fact that one person has committed a crime does not allow - legally, morally or logically - anyone to pile up further crimes on him.

Both pro - guilt and pro - innocent people say this. I am some what doubtful about the evidence of this. That is to say, the state of undress is good evidence of a sexual assault, the blood droplet pattern suggests this occurred shortly before death. Guede's DNA on the bra strap, and the sweat shirt, and on the vaginal swab would support his involvement in the sexual assault. (There is also the putative semen sample with Guede's shoe print imprint.) But there seems to be nothing to say this happened post mortem and to the contrary some evidence that it was at least initiated pre-mortem. There is zero evidence of Knox's involvement despite her conviction for sexual assault, the debatable DNA presence attributable to Sollecito on the bra hook could at least justify some involvement of Sollecito in the accusation.

If any one wants to enlighten me please do so. If this includes unduly unpleasant issues feel free to PM me rather than putting them in the public domain.

 

[Desert Fox]

Both pro - guilt and pro - innocent people say this. I am some what doubtful about the evidence of this. That is to say, the state of undress is good evidence of a sexual assault, the blood droplet pattern suggests this occurred shortly before death. Guede's DNA on the bra strap, and the sweat shirt, and on the vaginal swab would support his involvement in the sexual assault. (There is also the putative semen sample with Guede's shoe print imprint.) But there seems to be nothing to say this happened post mortem and to the contrary some evidence that it was at least initiated pre-mortem. There is zero evidence of Knox's involvement despite her conviction for sexual assault, the debatable DNA presence attributable to Sollecito on the bra hook could at least justify some involvement of Sollecito in the accusation.

If any one wants to enlighten me please do so. If this includes unduly unpleasant issues feel free to PM me rather than putting them in the public domain.

If Amanda and Raff were involved, I honestly expect that they would have turned on each other quickly in hopes of pinning it on the other.

 

[Planigale]

I still do not understand why those who are pro-guilt think the alleged withdrawal of Sollecito's alibi for Knox is good. The alibi is mutual. All the alleged significant physical evidence is against Sollecito, the bra hook, the bath mat foot print, the knife. Curatolo's testimony collapses. Sollicito's knife collection and violent Manga becomes irrelevant.

Any suggestion that Knox could have sneaked out whilst Sollecito was asleep equally applies to Sollecito sneaking out whilst Knox is asleep. Since the alleged physical evidence places Sollecito but not Knox as present at the crime the consequence for the prosecution will be the collapse of the case against Knox.

 

[Planigale]

There are basically two possibilities.
The first, is that the knife was at the cottage or in Raffaele's car together with cooking items (fish, foot, coutelry) for innocent reasons.
What makes me inclined to think so is that Raffaele talks in his book about cooking elaborate meals at Meredith's while testimonies say that they never did so. Also, Sollecito talks about using a similar knife at the cottage and even of pricking Meredith on her hand with the point. On the other hand, at the beginning Sollecito talked about being at a little party that night. Amanda Knox talks about Sollecito cooking an elaborate fish meal that evening. Based on those hints there is a good chance to place the knife at the cottage or inside Sollecito's car (parked there) just as a cooking tool.

The second option is that someone fetched the knife at some point during the evening in order to carry out some questionable plot (a prank or a hazing). This is not impossible if we take in account Knox's precedents, that include a terrifying burglary prank on her housemate in Seattle.
It is possible also because Meredith's housedoor and Sollecito's apartment are only 400 meters apart, therefore you would need about 7-8 minutes to go fetch the knife and come back.
Even in this event however there wouldn't be premediatation as for jurisprudence. Premeditation is a charge that requires a plan of a specific crime and a significant time lapse, it must be planned in some context and situation that is clearly different from the circumstance of the crime.

So in conclusion there is no evidence of premeditation, and there is no information as for why the knife was carried at the cottage.

Where does this car suddenly come from? Where are you suggesting it was parked? Why was it not seen on CCTV? If there was a car whose were the running feet? Presumably the clattering were the pots and pans Knox and Sollecito were running round Perugia with?

 

[MichaelB]

Both pro - guilt and pro - innocent people say this. I am some what doubtful about the evidence of this. That is to say, the state of undress is good evidence of a sexual assault, the blood droplet pattern suggests this occurred shortly before death. Guede's DNA on the bra strap, and the sweat shirt, and on the vaginal swab would support his involvement in the sexual assault. (There is also the putative semen sample with Guede's shoe print imprint.) But there seems to be nothing to say this happened post mortem and to the contrary some evidence that it was at least initiated pre-mortem. There is zero evidence of Knox's involvement despite her conviction for sexual assault, the debatable DNA presence attributable to Sollecito on the bra hook could at least justify some involvement of Sollecito in the accusation.

If any one wants to enlighten me please do so. If this includes unduly unpleasant issues feel free to PM me rather than putting them in the public domain.

If you look at the photos, all the blood from her neck has pooled at her head where she was found. In other words, she bled out there. Luca Maori said Guede used the towel to suffocate her and finish her off and there was compression marks. The semen stain is literally right between her open legs and the aspirated blood is on the breasts and bra so she'd already had her neck cut before she was undressed.

She wasn't just laying there or anywhere else passively and uninjured while he sexually assaulted her and then got up and he knifed her and the blood sprayed all over the closet then she was put back into position and stripped. That doesn't make any sense. If the neck wound was last he would have just let her fall over and slump on the ground and left her there.

Where as I think he prepared the body for the sexual assault and I think the lamp was used for lighting so the overhead light wasn't on. He made that part of his story and it'd explain why it was in there.

The 2008 Supreme Court report says there was anal dilation of 2-3cm so she was sodomized. Some of the experts tried to say she was constipated to explain the dilation but if you read prosecution expert, Professor Mauro Bacci, he says he saw no evidence of constipation and there was signs of anal penetration and that post-mortem anal dilation occurs in children but not adults.

I can't see any scenario where he was able to sexually assault her before the neck injury then placed into position on the pillow and it just happens to line up exactly with the semen stain.

 

[Dan O.]

Where does this car suddenly come from? Where are you suggesting it was parked? Why was it not seen on CCTV? If there was a car whose were the running feet? Presumably the clattering were the pots and pans Knox and Sollecito were running round Perugia with?

It's strange that the location of the car has not been disclosed. The police did recover the car as we have the DNA results. It does make sense that the car would be parked in the car park as there is little parking in town.

What I find more intesting is the foot that is suposedly in the car. Is this perhaps the foot that was seen sticking out of the wardrobe?

 

[katy_did]

If you look at the photos, all the blood from her neck has pooled at her head where she was found. In other words, she bled out there. Luca Maori said Guede used the towel to suffocate her and finish her off and there was compression marks. The semen stain is literally right between her open legs and the aspirated blood is on the breasts and bra so she'd already had her neck cut before she was undressed.

She wasn't just laying there or anywhere else passively and uninjured while he sexually assaulted her and then got up and he knifed her and the blood sprayed all over the closet then she was put back into position and stripped. That doesn't make any sense. If the neck wound was last he would have just let her fall over and slump on the ground.

The photos show he prepared the body for the sexual assault and I think the lamp was used for lighting so the overhead light wasn't on. He made that part of his story and it'd explain why it was in there.

The 2008 Supreme Court report says there was anal dilation of 2-3cm so she was sodomized. Some of the experts tried to say she was constipated to explain the dilation but if you read prosecution expert, Professor Mauro Bacci, he says he saw no evidence of constipation and there was signs of anal penetration and that post-mortem anal dilation occurs in children but not adults.

I can't see any scenario where he was able to sexually assault her before the neck injury then placed into position on the pillow and it just happens to line up exactly with the semen stain.

I don't agree - whatever the stain was, it had been stepped on as it had been smeared by shoe prints. That can't have happened while Meredith was lying on top of it. It also doesn't follow that she had to be "lying passive and injured" on the ground while being sexually assaulted. Guede could very well have threatened her into compliance initially (hence the small injuries to her hands and face).

The strongest support for your argument would be the blood spatter on the bra. Worth noting, though, that most of the blood was on the right strap, where the "minor" injury was, rather than on the left side, where the two larger injuries were. So it's possible the bra was removed at some point during that final struggle, but either prior to or at the same time as the fatal injury. It doesn't in itself suggest postmortem sexual assault; if anything, it suggests she was already undressed to her bra when she was first stabbed.

 

[Planigale]

If you look at the photos, all the blood from her neck has pooled at her head where she was found. In other words, she bled out there. Luca Maori said Guede used the towel to suffocate her and finish her off and there was compression marks. The semen stain is literally right between her open legs and the aspirated blood is on the breasts and bra so she'd already had her neck cut before she was undressed.

She wasn't just laying there or anywhere else passively and uninjured while he sexually assaulted her and then got up and he knifed her and the blood sprayed all over the closet then she was put back into position and stripped. That doesn't make any sense. If the neck wound was last he would have just let her fall over and slump on the ground and left her there.

Where as I think he prepared the body for the sexual assault and I think the lamp was used for lighting so the overhead light wasn't on. He made that part of his story and it'd explain why it was in there.

The 2008 Supreme Court report says there was anal dilation of 2-3cm so she was sodomized. Some of the experts tried to say she was constipated to explain the dilation but if you read prosecution expert, Professor Mauro Bacci, he says he saw no evidence of constipation and there was signs of anal penetration and that post-mortem anal dilation occurs in children but not adults.

I can't see any scenario where he was able to sexually assault her before the neck injury then placed into position on the pillow and it just happens to line up exactly with the semen stain.

Thank you. But definitely falls into the realm of not what I would want my children to read on the internet (If I had any). I need to look again at the evidence.

 

[MichaelB]

I don't agree - whatever the stain was, it had been stepped on as it had been smeared by shoe prints. That can't have happened while Meredith was lying on top of it. It also doesn't follow that she had to be "lying passive and injured" on the ground while being sexually assaulted. Guede could very well have threatened her into compliance initially (hence the small injuries to her hands and face).

The strongest support for your argument would be the blood spatter on the bra. Worth noting, though, that most of the blood was on the right strap, where the "minor" injury was, rather than on the left side, where the two larger injuries were. So it's possible the bra was removed at some point during that final struggle, but either prior to or at the same time as the fatal injury. It doesn't in itself suggest postmortem sexual assault; if anything, it suggests she was already undressed to her bra when she was first stabbed.

Yeah but her adidas jacket was soaked so she was wearing that.

 

[katy_did]

Yeah but her adidas jacket was soaked so she was wearing that.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/401664e44d25a9e138.jpg[/qimg]

I don't think so - take a look at the way it was found. It was scrunched up and lying in a pool of blood, with very little blood on the visible top part of it but a lot on the underside where it's touching the floor. It was turned over by the cops as well and put back on the bloody floor, and there's also no blood splatter on it of the type we see on the bra. I think Guede probably used it to wipe up some of the blood before he got the towels (hence the wipe mark on the floor leading straight to it). Either way, I think the blood on the jacket is probably from it being left in a pool of blood (and from the cops moving it) not from being worn.

 

[platonov]

I still do not understand why those who are pro-guilt think the alleged withdrawal of Sollecito's alibi for Knox is good. The alibi is mutual. All the alleged significant physical evidence is against Sollecito, the bra hook, the bath mat foot print, the knife. Curatolo's testimony collapses. Sollicito's knife collection and violent Manga becomes irrelevant.
Any suggestion that Knox could have sneaked out whilst Sollecito was asleep equally applies to Sollecito sneaking out whilst Knox is asleep. Since the alleged physical evidence places Sollecito but not Knox as present at the crime the consequence for the prosecution will be the collapse of the case against Knox.

A 2 person alibi should be mutual for it to be believable.
In this case however RS has never claimed AK as an alibi. His tenuous Nov 8 alibi was legally withdrawn as a result of the 2008 Cassation application.

Does this make sense even in cartwheel world?
He blathers on about the non alibi on TV – effectively casting doubt on the tales from Honour Bound which never had any legal standing - & Hey Presto ..... the case against AK (which has been proven) magically collapses.

Will that form part of AK’s lawyer’s submission to Cassation? How would that work?

Your Majesty. If you were watching TV recently you will be aware that the alibi RS didn’t provide for our client doesn’t exist.
Declare her innocent this minute. (the stamping of feet is distinctly audible).
Oh and can we borrow your crown. The ECHR has been in touch and Amanda’s coronation is imminent.

[note – In this zone of Cartwheel world Cassation Judges wear crowns]

 

[carbonjam72]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that when the ISC convenes on March 25th it will not review the entire Nencini motivation; it will only address complaints by the appellants in addition to any constitutional issues raised by them.

If the above is right -- and with Nencini translated, and summaries of the appeals by Amanda and Raffaele available -- I wonder if any here have a sense of how this should go down. If the case is completely political at this point then of course the court will simply do whatever it wants. But suppose the judges are sincere. How then ought they rule on the points of appeal and on what grounds?

I'm not an attorney but FWIW my sense is that other than a fix there is no way the ISC can confirm Nencini. I think they will most likely sent it back to the second level, possibly retrying the defendants separately. Less likely is that they will simply dismiss the charges. But I see now way they can confirm Nencini.

Anybody willing to venture an opinion?

Thanks.

1. UNITED SESSIONS - My guess is that they refer it to a united sessions panel, on the basis that there are constitutional issues raised in using Guede's testimony for conviction, without allowing the opportunity to cross examine, and also for the binding of this case to the facts established in Guede's conviction where these defendants were not represented and the facts at tissue were agreed to by stipulation of the defense and prosecution in a fast track trial, and thus never tested on the merits. This gives them time to hear from the ECHR, and let the case cool for another year before doing anything.

2. DISMISSED ON INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE - The other alternative I can see, annulling the Nencini conviction, and dismissing the charges on the basis that there is a lack of evidence to sustain a conviction 'beyond reasonable doubt'. So not reinstating Hellman's finding of actual innocence, but allowing those who still believe in guilt to think they got off on a technically but are actually guilty, and the honor of the judicial system in 'proving guilt beyond reasonable doubt' is more important than an unsafe conviction, even though 'they probably did it'.

3. NEW APPEAL TRIAL - A third possibility, would be annulling Nencini, and sending down for a third appeal, but setting ground rules over evidence, like clarifying what to make of Conti & Vechiotti, requiring that Guede be subjected to cross examination or his testimony excluded, and excluding the results of Guede's trial where these defendants were not represented.

I have to say, it hard to see this going back for another appeal, as what more could expect to be accomplished? It seems so unfair to drag it on forever, but apparently the time and expense of trials is not a priority in the Italian system, and its preferable to a guilty verdict.

4. CONFIRMED - Last outcome, of course is the guilty verdicts are confirmed, and Raf goes to jail immediately, and Italy requests extradition. I don't believe such a request will ever make it past the state department and into a courtroom, or that Amanda Knox will spend even one more day in jail for the rest of her life. No one believes this case has any merit, and that she has suffered enough out of courtesy to Italy. The extradition treaty has protections against double jeopardy, and this is a political case at this point.

In the end, the ECHR will address Knox's calunnia conviction, and if necessary this conviction if it is confirmed. Raf may spend more time in prison, but I really don't think that's going to happen.

Raf's recent appearance on TV sends a message that he is not going to be convicted. Too many people can see he's innocent at this point, in Italy and around the world. That's why all the pro-guilt folks are so histrionic in trying to redefine what was obviously a positive appearance and strong assertion of innocence for himself and Amanda, into some sort of abandonment of alibi or technical defenses. They twist and contort reality because they can't accept facing their own error.

I think at this point, everybody can feel the air going out of the balloon. They've had their fun, they've tormented two innocent young people for years, they've sold their newspapers and TV shows and ads, and now its time to let the two innocents pick up the pieces of their broken lives and move on. Not even the Italian judiciary is so cruel as to finally confirm this widely recognized farce.

None of us has a crystal ball of course. But I believe the case was always about what verdict was permissible at the time. At first an acquittal wasn't thinkable given the media coverage. Now, the hysteria has largely moved on, I think people are ready for the show to end.

 

[carbonjam72]

I don't think so - take a look at the way it was found. It was scrunched up and lying in a pool of blood, with very little blood on the visible top part of it but a lot on the underside where it's touching the floor. It was turned over by the cops as well and put back on the bloody floor, and there's also no blood splatter on it of the type we see on the bra. I think Guede probably used it to wipe up some of the blood before he got the towels (hence the wipe mark on the floor leading straight to it). Either way, I think the blood on the jacket is probably from it being left in a pool of blood (and from the cops moving it) not from being worn.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1095&pictureid=8293[/qimg]

Very helpful to see this picture, and the streaks leading to the jacket suggest that it was used for clean-up, imo.

In that regard, I may be imagining it, but is that a right thumb and hand print in blood on the surface of the jacket? Wasn't Rudy injured on his right hand? Were any fingerprints or DNA from Rudy ever lifted from the jacket?

Of course its all part of Rudy's story. And I thought the explanation of Rudy getting towels to smother her, rather than comfort her, had the ring of truth.

Rudy Guede killed Meredith Kercher. He may have been loved once by his adopted family, but he was a murdering monster in that room. How crazy that Mignini and the pro-guilt people clamor to support him and lessen the burden of his guilt, by palming it off onto two innocent people.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

1. UNITED SESSIONS - My guess is that they refer it to a united sessions panel, on the basis that there are constitutional issues raised in using Guede's testimony for conviction, without allowing the opportunity to cross examine, and also for the binding of this case to the facts established in Guede's conviction where these defendants were not represented and the facts at tissue were agreed to by stipulation of the defense and prosecution in a fast track trial, and thus never tested on the merits. This gives them time to hear from the ECHR, and let the case cool for another year before doing anything.

2. DISMISSED ON INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE - The other alternative I can see, annulling the Nencini conviction, and dismissing the charges on the basis that there is a lack of evidence to sustain a conviction 'beyond reasonable doubt'. So not reinstating Hellman's finding of actual innocence, but allowing those who still believe in guilt to think they got off on a technically but are actually guilty, and the honor of the judicial system in 'proving guilt beyond reasonable doubt' is more important than an unsafe conviction, even though 'they probably did it'.

3. NEW APPEAL TRIAL - A third possibility, would be annulling Nencini, and sending down for a third appeal, but setting ground rules over evidence, like clarifying what to make of Conti & Vechiotti, requiring that Guede be subjected to cross examination or his testimony excluded, and excluding the results of Guede's trial where these defendants were not represented.

I have to say, it hard to see this going back for another appeal, as what more could expect to be accomplished? It seems so unfair to drag it on forever, but apparently the time and expense of trials is not a priority in the Italian system, and its preferable to a guilty verdict.

4. CONFIRMED - Last outcome, of course is the guilty verdicts are confirmed, and Raf goes to jail immediately, and Italy requests extradition. I don't believe such a request will ever make it past the state department and into a courtroom, or that Amanda Knox will spend even one more day in jail for the rest of her life. No one believes this case has any merit, and that she has suffered enough out of courtesy to Italy. The extradition treaty has protections against double jeopardy, and this is a political case at this point.

In the end, the ECHR will address Knox's calunnia conviction, and if necessary this conviction if it is confirmed. Raf may spend more time in prison, but I really don't think that's going to happen.

Raf's recent appearance on TV sends a message that he is not going to be convicted. Too many people can see he's innocent at this point, in Italy and around the world. That's why all the pro-guilt folks are so histrionic in trying to redefine what was obviously a positive appearance and strong assertion of innocence for himself and Amanda, into some sort of abandonment of alibi or technical defenses. They twist and contort reality because they can't accept facing their own error.

I think at this point, everybody can feel the air going out of the balloon. They've had their fun, they've tormented two innocent young people for years, they've sold their newspapers and TV shows and ads, and now its time to let the two innocents pick up the pieces of their broken lives and move on. Not even the Italian judiciary is so cruel as to finally confirm this widely recognized farce.

None of us has a crystal ball of course. But I believe the case was always about what verdict was permissible at the time. At first an acquittal wasn't thinkable given the media coverage. Now, the hysteria has largely moved on, I think people are ready for the show to end.

Any sign of the calunnia application approaching or indeed jumping over the ECHR admissibility hurdle?