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The US Civil War: why was the North so adamant about holding the Union together?

lpetrich

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In the US Civil War, holding the Union together was a much more popular cause in the North than abolitionism. I've thought about that and asked about that, and here are two possibilities:

The South's unilateral secession was a recipe for anarchy. What was the point of having a Union when states could freely disregard decisions made by the national government? Unilateral it was, with Southern politicians not bothering to make a case in Congress for their secession.

If they were willing to convince Northern politicians that a split would be good for both the North and the South, then they might have successfully seceded. Something like the "velvet divorce", the Dissolution of CzechoslovakiaWP. They would have had to negotiate division of assets, as Czech and Slovak politicians did, but if both sides agreed on doing that, then it would not have been much trouble.

Secession could have gone even further. Some politicians in mid-Atlantic states proposed forming a Central ConfederacyWP, and Mayor Fernando WoodWP of New York City proposed that his city become the Free City of Tri-Insula, the "three islands" being Staten Island, Manhattan, and Long Island.

International weakness. That was a potentially serious problem. Beginning half a millennium ago, European nations conquered more and more of the rest of the world. Spain and Portugal were the first, followed by Britain and France and various others. The US itself had originated from some British colonies, successfully rebelling against their parent nation. However, Britain held on to Canada. The US and Britain fought each other again in the War of 1812, with the US being unsuccessful in "liberating" Canada and Britain burning down the White House. The US and Britain were then at loggerheads over the western US-Canada boundary, with some Americans demanding "54-40 or fight!" But they settled for a more southerly latitude.

Spain and Portugal were the first big colonial powers, but by 1860, they were in decline. Nearly all their Central and South American territories had become independent some 40 years before, though they still held on to territories elsewhere. France, another big colonial power, had lost in the Americas, though that nation had some territory in Africa. Britain was still going strong, acquiring territory as if it had never lost its North American colonies. Russia had expanded eastward across Eurasia, crossing over into North America and expanding along the Pacific coast.

Britain was at the time the biggest international power, with a world-spanning set of colonial territories and a navy to match.

So a hostile split could greatly weaken the resulting nations, making them vulnerable to British meddling. As it was, the North had to convince Britain to refuse to recognize the South, because Britain supporting the South would have been catastrophic for the North.
 
Not mutually exclusive with your reasons, but I believe in the north the idea of secession was considered traitorous and supporting union was considered patriotic. They saw themselves as preserving what was fought for in the revolutionary war. I don't think we can view it solely from the perspective of calculated self interest (but at the same time we can't ignore such factors either).
 
In the US Civil War, holding the Union together was a much more popular cause in the North than abolitionism. I've thought about that and asked about that
It is a general rule that the leaders of countries are reluctant to permit or encourage secession by any of their component parts. We're seeing this in the UK now.
 
It is a general rule that the leaders of countries are reluctant to permit or encourage secession by any of their component parts. We're seeing this in the UK now.

Seconded.

In just about every case, governments hate to get smaller and weaker; and by allowing the States to decide unilaterally if they want to stay in the Union or not, then the Union would become a considerably less strong and smaller sized government.
 
It is a general rule that the leaders of countries are reluctant to permit or encourage secession by any of their component parts. We're seeing this in the UK now.

A joke from a few years ago: Czecho-no-Slovakia.

The thing about the Confederacy is that even if they had succeeded in seceding it would not have held together. One affront and a state would have seceded from the other seceders. The borders states would have fallen one by one to the Union as the North "reclaimed renegade territories." I can easily picture one Confederate state "inviting" Northern troops in to "protect us from that aggressive state to the west."
 
A joke from a few years ago: Czecho-no-Slovakia.

The thing about the Confederacy is that even if they had succeeded in seceding it would not have held together. One affront and a state would have seceded from the other seceders. The borders states would have fallen one by one to the Union as the North "reclaimed renegade territories." I can easily picture one Confederate state "inviting" Northern troops in to "protect us from that aggressive state to the west."

That in fact happened with West Virginia.

Secession was widely believed to be treason. Andrew Jackson said as much during the South Carolina nullification crisis in 1832-33, and popular sentiment echoed that; Webster's second reply to Hayne was (IMO) instrumental in swinging that popular sentiment. "Liberty and Union, one and inseparable, now and forever" is just that kind of epigram.

[historical anecdote]

A member of Congress to Webster, after that speech: "Mr. Webster, you had better die now, and rest your fame on that speech."

Hayne: "No, [Webster] ought not to die; a man who can make such speeches as that ought never to die."

[/historical anecdote]
 
If the North had not fought the South during the Civil War, the two sides would have warred over the subsequent westward expansion. Who's citizens get to settle the new lands? Who has sovereignty over the new towns and cities? Who has control over discovered resources?
 
If the North had not fought the South during the Civil War, the two sides would have warred over the subsequent westward expansion. Who's citizens get to settle the new lands? Who has sovereignty over the new towns and cities? Who has control over discovered resources?
Before they fought the Civil War, they fought over a comparable issue: would the new territories permit slavery or not?
 
Just to add to the suggestions, is it it also true that the Confederacy also had designs on areas within what would have remained in the Union, such as Missouri and Kentucky, and that the flag referenced this in its number of stars, thereby making it not only secessionist but expansionist also...?
 
I just pictured ten thousand slaves pulling the Saturn V launch vehicle to the pace from the VAB. :boggled:
The technological incompetence of slaveowner societies is, or was, a real issue. The Confederacy couldn't build things like railway locomotives, and when they captured breech-loading rifles using brass cartridge cases, they couldn't mass produce ammunition for them.
 
The technological incompetence of slaveowner societies is, or was, a real issue. The Confederacy couldn't build things like railway locomotives, and when they captured breech-loading rifles using brass cartridge cases, they couldn't mass produce ammunition for them.

But ... location, location, location. They'd lease space for a launching facility to them damn Yankees Northern space interests.
 
Or, you'd end up like Turtledove's "Great War series" where both the CSA and the USA have implemented conscription and are historical rivals on the same lines as France and Germany.
 
Or, you'd end up like Turtledove's "Great War series" where both the CSA and the USA have implemented conscription and are historical rivals on the same lines as France and Germany.
We don't need Turtledove's fantasies for that!
The New York City draft riots (July 13–16, 1863), known at the time as Draft Week, were violent disturbances in New York City that were the culmination of working-class discontent with new laws passed by Congress that year to draft men to fight in the ongoing American Civil War. The riots remain the largest civil and racial insurrection in American history, aside from the Civil War itself.
 
Not directly related to the question at hand, but I recommend this article by Sven Beckert in Politico Magazine, "How Cotton Remade the World," about the effect of the Civil War on the global economy.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/civil-war-cotton-capitalism-114776.html

In particular, note the dependence of the industrial north, and indeed the entire industrialized world, on slave-produced cotton from the American south.
 
I think that Lincoln's Gettysburg address touches on this topic very well.

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived, and so dedicated, can long endure"

We often forget that even at this point and time in history most of the world viewed "democracy" as an "unnatural thing" and as Lincoln says an experiment.
If The south succeeded there would be no US. I don't really think that there would be anything left of the original 23 colonies and democracy would be a footnote in history
 
I think that Lincoln's Gettysburg address touches on this topic very well.

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived, and so dedicated, can long endure"

We often forget that even at this point and time in history most of the world viewed "democracy" as an "unnatural thing" and as Lincoln says an experiment.
If The south succeeded there would be no US. I don't really think that there would be anything left of the original 23 colonies and democracy would be a footnote in history

Really?

I think that could be overstating things. Democracy was not a purely American idea. There were also democratic movements in Great Britain and parts of Europe at that time.
 

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