Continuation Part 13: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Chris_Halkides said:
It is these sorts of problems that make Knox's, Sollecito's, and Lumumba's stories of how they were treated more credible.
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Ridiculous.

One does not equate the other. The Androvandi case can be compared to the countless examples of police brutality in the US.

Hey: how are things going with Eric Garner?

And take a look over the Italian public's outrage over Federico.

Hey: I thought you can't criticize the cops here.

http://www.federicoaldrovandi.it[
 
Chris_Halkides said:
Again, incidents of police brutality happen in every country. What may vary from country to country are how are the incidents dealt with and how institutionalized the problems are. It is these sorts of problems that make Knox's, Sollecito's, and Lumumba's stories of how they were treated more credible.
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I totally agree. Every system will have failings, shortcomings, corruption and mistakes. But mature, civilised, modernised societies do two things: 1) they evaluate and acknowledge the scale and scope of the problem; 2) they put accountability and correction mechanisms in place to try to a) minimise the chances of these things occurring, and b) rectify them if/when they do occur.

Here in the UK we have a pretty good recent track record of owning up to shortcomings and corruption in institutions such as the police and courts. In Italy, now..............
 
London John: do speak Italian? Yes or No? Do you read the Italian press?

Thanks in advance.
 
Vibio said:
London John: do speak Italian? Yes or No? Do you read the Italian press?

Thanks in advance.
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I speak conversational Italian. Why would that be important in terms of either a) the point I just made, or b) the reasoning underpinning the arguments in favour of Knox's/Sollecito's acquittals and/or innocence?

I don't read the Italian press, save for a small number of articles related to this case or Italian football. Again, this would matter why exactly?

Thanks in advance.
 
A good start, but not more than that

Vibio said:
The "Federico Aldrovandi" case.

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You have the correct case, but nothing in your comment even begins to address the problems I brought up. Your argument is entirely insubstantial.
 
Amnesty International in 2013

Vibio said:
One does not equate the other. The Androvandi case can be compared to the countless examples of police brutality in the US.
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The cases in question took place in Italy. Here is What AI said in 2013: "No systemic measures were taken to prevent human rights violations by police, or to ensure accountability for them...Shortcomings in the investigations of a number of deaths in custody resulted in a lack of accountability for police and prison officers." Not much changed between 2007 and 2013.

Gosh, it's nice when a filmmaker wins an award, but it doesn't mean that actual reform has taken place. Your arguments are unconvincing because they don't even address the problems I brought up, let alone rebut the points I made.
 
You wrote: "Yet any system that allows 10 suits to be brought against the mother of a son killed in this manner badly needs to reflect and to reform."

Needs to reflect? Again you know nothing. See the national reflection over the case.

Needs to reform? Tell us what you know about steps being taken here and reform being made.
 
Vibio said:
You wrote: "Yet any system that allows 10 suits to be brought against the mother of a son killed in this manner badly needs to reflect and to reform."

Needs to reflect? Again you know nothing. See the national reflection over the case.

Needs to reform? Tell us what you know about steps being taken here and reform being made.
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Maybe they should limit to lawsuits against the victim's mother to no more than 7 or 8?
 
Vibio said:
You wrote: "Yet any system that allows 10 suits to be brought against the mother of a son killed in this manner badly needs to reflect and to reform."

Needs to reflect? Again you know nothing. See the national reflection over the case.

Needs to reform? Tell us what you know about steps being taken here and reform being made.
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If you are arguing that there is an attempt to reform, it is your duty to show evidence that they are reforming with regards to this issue
 
It's just hilarious to have Americans (of all people) lecture other countries about police brutality and accountability.
 
Vibio said:
I'm rushing, but for a taste : http://www.3leggi.it
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Vibio. If I can drag you away from cartwheel world & into the real world for a moment I have a Q/comment.

What was the point of RS’s TV appearance? Who was the message meant for? Ignore for a moment that he came across badly.
There is nothing AK can do for him now – too late for unsubtly coded threats. Money ?
Cassation* won’t buy it? Technically they can’t even consider it & if he wanted to ‘split’ (from AK) it’s too late now.

So what was the point – he wants to be a media star?

*Given the various attempts ‘to pervert the course of justice’ as the English phrase it they would hardly be receptive in any case.

Mach also - any thoughts?
 
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platonov said:
Vibio. If I can drag you away from cartwheel world & into the real world for a moment I have a Q/comment.

What was the point of RS’s TV appearance? Who was the message meant for? Ignore for a moment that he came across badly.
There is nothing AK can do for him now – too late for unsubtly coded threats. Money ?
Cassation* won’t buy it? Technically they can’t even consider it & if he wanted to ‘split’ (from AK) it’s too late now.

So what was the point – he wants to be a media star?

*Given the various attempts ‘to pervert the course of justice’ as the English phrase it they would hardly be receptive in any case.

Mach also - any thoughts?
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I have no idea.

But if I had to speculate? It's a prelude to accusing her. He's laying the ground work.
 
nothing changed

Vibio said:
You wrote: "Yet any system that allows 10 suits to be brought against the mother of a son killed in this manner badly needs to reflect and to reform."

Needs to reflect? Again you know nothing. See the national reflection over the case.

Needs to reform? Tell us what you know about steps being taken here and reform being made.
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Patting a filmmaker on the back is not reflecting. According to the citations to Amnesty International I provided, there has been no reform. The police demonstrated outside of Patrizia Moretti's office. "This is not the first time Moretti has been confronted with police anger over the convictions. In March 2013, a smaller police union held a sit-in in solidarity with the officers beneath Ferrara's city council building, where she is an employee. She came down brandishing a large picture of her dead son, his head in a pool of blood. The union later said it was not aware that she worked there."
SNIP
"'The conviction was already done, signed off,' she [Moretti] told journalists. 'What has to change is the behaviour of institutions after a conviction for manslaughter. For the moment, it's nothing.'" (highlighting mine)
 
Vibio said:
I have no idea.

But if I had to speculate? It's a prelude to accusing her. He's laying the ground work.
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Sure. 15 years after the fact, after repeatedly saying that she didn't do it, he's going to suddenly accuse her. Ridiculous.
 
Vibio said:
It's just hilarious to have Americans (of all people) lecture other countries about police brutality and accountability.
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I'm guessing you're not overly familiar with the "tu quoque" logical fallacy.......

ETA: Pah! Beaten to it!!
 
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