Merged Ukraine erupts in riots and general strike.

[Childlike Empress]

In other news Kerry is in Kiev, Merkel and Hollande are visiting tomorrow and then fly to Moscow, and the Hryvnia is in rapid free fall.

Correction: Merkel and Hollande are already on the way, visiting Kiev this evening and Moscow tomorrow. Unclear if Kerry is meeting them as well or has already kerryed on. No press statement planned after the meeting.

Something is going on but I can't imagine what. Will we see a replay of last February, an agreement reached just to be made obsolete by a putsch happening days later? Because this sentence from the above-linked analysis unfortunately seems to be very true:

Motorola and Givi [Novorossiya commanders] pose a far lesser threat to [Poroshenko] than Yarosh and Beletsky [Right Sector and Azov Battalion leaders].

 

[carlitos]

I'm not sure how the question if the information she provided is true changes the act, and you write she was released from prison. Anyway, if the claims of Kiev and NATO were even remotely true, there would be much better evidence than tea leaves reading like that.

Dissembling, pretending not to understand the question, and a tu quoque. Nice.

 

[dudalb]

Major peace effort by France and Germany. I just hope they are not doing a Munich and trying to force Ukraine into a bad deal. Merkle's footdragging on sanctions makes me suspicious.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Nope, Kerry was already gone when Merkel and Hollande arrived, at least according to AP's Matt Lee.

 

[jimbob]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tary-help-kiev-separatists-plan-mobilise-army

Officially, Moscow continues to deny it is a party to the conflict, and has repeatedly called for Kiev to sit down with the separatists and talk. On the ground, however, the continuing Russian support is clear, as the separatists appear to have an inexhaustible supply of Grad missiles and other weaponry. There have also been sightings, including one by the Guardian, of Smerch multiple missile launchers in recent days, a sophisticated weapons system with a range of up to 100km, which previously has not been used by the separatists, suggesting it has also been sent from Russia in recent weeks. Ukraine’s president has claimed there are 9000 Russian soldiers on his soil, while the Kremlin continues to claim any Russians in east Ukraine are volunteers.

The 9,000 figure is significantlyt larger than the NATO figure of 1,000 but there is plenty of evidence of Russian military support (and sponsorship) of the pro-Russian side.

Against this, there are denials from Putin, who has no credibility. And vague accusations from conspiracy theorists.

 

[dudalb]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tary-help-kiev-separatists-plan-mobilise-army



The 9,000 figure is significantlyt larger than the NATO figure of 1,000 but there is plenty of evidence of Russian military support (and sponsorship) of the pro-Russian side.

Against this, there are denials from Putin, who has no credibility. And vague accusations from conspiracy theorists.

Reminds me of Hitler claiming in 1938 he was not giving aid and arming the seperatists in the Sudetenland....

 

[Childlike Empress]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tary-help-kiev-separatists-plan-mobilise-army



The 9,000 figure is significantlyt larger than the NATO figure of 1,000 but there is plenty of evidence of Russian military support (and sponsorship) of the pro-Russian side.

Against this, there are denials from Putin, who has no credibility. And vague accusations from conspiracy theorists.

Always the same guys you quote, but no evidence. Don't you know that Shaun Walker and Alec Luhn are in the Top 10 "Hall of Shame" list of untrustworthy pre$$titutes? Putin pre$$titutes, that is. See here.

 

[NoahFence]

Always the same guys you quote, but no evidence. Don't you know that Shaun Walker and Alec Luhn are in the Top 10 "Hall of Shame" list of untrustworthy pre$$titutes? Putin pre$$titutes, that is. See here.

Are you under the impression that there are no Russian regular army troops in Ukraine?

 

[jimbob]

Are you under the impression that there are no Russian regular army troops in Ukraine?

Or that Putin denied having Russian troops in the Crimea before the (rather Soviet) referendum and ten later admitted it?

I trust independent journalists more than the Kremlin.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Or that Putin denied having Russian troops in the Crimea before the (rather Soviet) referendum and ten later admitted it?

I trust independent journalists more than the Kremlin.

You just admitted that in your opinion the Ukrainians might exaggarate not less (or more, better to say) than ninefold about the "regular troops", because you trust NATO and don't want to go further. Yet Ukie propaganda reaches the most pathetic depths imaginable. Follow the link I gave you. It's not satire. It's from the sick mind of a russophobe in Sweden foaming at the mouth. There are many psychos like that. The spokesperson of the NSDC, Comical Andriy among them, as I've proven countless times here in this thread.

And yet, when none other than the Chief of Staff of the Ukrainian Army actually admits that they are not fighting regular Russian troops, you hear nothing about it, of course not from those psychos but also not from your oh-so-independent journalists. You should know better by now and I've kind of lost patience, so don't expect me to go rounds and rounds with you anymore (not only re:Crimea).

edit: Oh, one thing about Crimea just because it fits so well. Alec Luhn tweeted this today:

Granted, most dissenters have probably left Crimea, but this German survey has found 93% there support joining Russia http://www.gfk.com/ua/documents/presentations/gfk_report_freecrimea.pdf

Ask the Ukie propaganda psychos - they will tell you that there are HUGE refugee camps just under Lvov where 77% of the Crimeans fled to. Or something...

 

[jimbob]

March 4th

Putin denied that the Russian-speaking soldiers occupying key Crimean military sites were Russian special forces, describing them as pro-Russian local self-defence forces.

"There are many military uniforms. Go into any local shop and you can find one," he said.

April 17th

The armed men in military uniform without insignia, dubbed “the little green men” or “the polite people,” who were present in Crimea before and during the referendum there, were Russian troops, Vladimir Putin acknowledged speaking at a Q&A session with on Thursday. The president said he never concealed the fact from his foreign counterparts, and explained to them that it was the only way to ensure the referendum on the region’s status would be carried out peacefully.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I'm not going to search the thread for the earlier times we've been there. You can do it yourself. I'm more interested in what happens next than banging my head against a brick wall.

 

[dudalb]

Poland might start sending arms to the Ukraine.
Shades of "With Fire and Sword". Images of Polish Winged Hussars go through my head.....

 

[jimbob]

I'm not going to search the thread for the earlier times we've been there. You can do it yourself. I'm more interested in what happens next than banging my head against a brick wall.

But you never actually explained why we should trust what Putin says on this when he has a history of lying, and the Guardian has a record of telling the truth when it upsets Western governments, so has a good recent record on its independence.

 

[Childlike Empress]

But you never actually explained why we should trust what Putin says on this when he has a history of lying, and the Guardian has a record of telling the truth when it upsets Western governments, so has a good recent record on its independence.

You just don't listen. Or better, you don't process. I understand the reasons but I can't actually do anything about it so I see no use for repeating myself any more (and I hate that anyway).

After I wrote the post wondering if there will be a replay of last February (agreement followed by putsch) I went back to the first page of this thread. In my first post, two months before those events, I quoted the website German Foreign Policy with the following:

[...] To gain influence in the country, Germany has for years been supporting the "pro-European" alliance in the Ukraine. The alliance includes not only conservative parties, but also forces from the extreme right - because of their strength, particularly in western Ukraine, where a cult around former Nazi collaborators is manifesting itself. The All-Ukrainian Union "Svoboda" party is particularly embedded in the national-chauvinist milieu, under the influence of this cult. Over the past few days, the party's leader has called for a "revolution" in Kiev. [...]

This "cult" has now up to 10,000 people under arms and its military leader Yarosh just announced a couple of days ago that they would form a parallel command structure. Feel free to go back and remind yourself of the chronology of events. But don't expect me to do it for you.

 

[jimbob]

I freely admit that I don't bother watch youtube videos that you post claiming to explain things.

Did Putin deny that he had special forces in Crimea prior to the referendum? Did Putin admit that he had special forces in Crimea prior to the referendum?

Why should we trust him when he changes his story within two months?

 

[dudalb]

Ron Paul, great champion of Liberty,continues his love affair with Vladimir Putin......

w.infowars.com/no-doubt-us-taxpayers-will-be-robbed-to-arm-poroshenko/

 

[carlitos]

Good luck with that, jimbob.

 

[jimbob]

Oh, and as far as I can recall, I don't recall anyone on here saying that there weren't fascist Ukrainian Nationalists with influence. I do see a couple of people trying to deny that Russia has any blame.

Unpleasant nationalists are bolstered when their country is attacked.

As an aside, German-foreign-policy.com looks interesting - its English translation of its mission
http://www.german-foreign-policy.com/en/info/

looks to miss entire sections that the German one doesn't - there are helpful gaps though:

german-foreign-policy.com erscheint mehrsprachig, um die kritische Berichterstattung über hegemoniale Taktiken und Strategien des vereinigten Deutschland einem internationalen Leserkreis zu eröffnen.

http://www.german-foreign-policy.com/de/info/

 

[Childlike Empress]

looks to miss entire sections that the German one doesn't - there are helpful gaps though

In case that means you need help at translation, just ask.