Right Wing Blog Evicerates High Speed Rail.

[mgidm86]

California is going to have 50 million people soon but with transportation infrastructure designed for less than a third of that. Check out how much expanding I-5 is costing in LA right now. Nearly $300 million a mile. We could just keep doing that but I don't think that is the right path.

Sounds like overpopulation is the problem. If I wasn't born in Cali I would never consider moving here. We are running out of roads, we have a very serious water problem, taxes are high. Feinstein is here...

Let's make a high speed rail that goes to some state that isn't overcrowded, and make it one way and free. Seriously, we need to get some new population centers going in the US.

 

[Howie Felterbush]

Where were all these rail "supporters" when we were ripping up railroad lines left and right and turning them into bicycle trails?

 

[WildCat]

Check out how much expanding I-5 is costing in LA right now. Nearly $300 million a mile.

Which you'll still need to transport people from the outlying HSR station into the city center, or do you think they'll all walk? I bet a HSR line in the same area would cost even more per mile.

 

[Dinwar]

No advantage? When it is built I'll be able to live near a station that will whisk me LA in two hours. San Diego in three. Right now I'd have to drive three hours just to get to an airport where I'd wait another two hours to get on a plane. Add in that the planes run on carbon intensive fuel and I see many advantages.

I take it that you buy Head-On as well. What you're describing is the advertised HSR. The REAL HSR will be quite different, for reasons I and others have described. And get real; the HSR is hardly going to be carbon-neutral. And it'll have to run regardless of how full it is--because people will demand it. Which increases the carbon footprint. Then there's the whole issue of putting an entirely new infrastructure. Oh, and all those additional things that are built into the project to satisfy the various politicians and pressure groups involved. But hey, I only worked on the damn thing; what do I know?

Well, it is an argument that in this regard it is no worse than any other infrastructure.

Infrastructure we already have. You keep forgetting that part.

And then what? What do you think you'll be doing once you get there?

Nothing without a car. Unless the HSR terminal is within a mile of where you want to go. Walking in LA isn't the safest option.

I bet a HSR line in the same area would cost even more per mile.

Possibly more. Roads and rails have different requirements, and have different impacts. If they decide that it has to be underground in the cities (I've seen it happen with other things) $300 million/mile is going to look downright cheap.

 

[theprestige]

No advantage? When it is built I'll be able to live near a station that will whisk me LA in two hours.

Not if it has to stop in every godforsaken backwater in the state it won't. I can't think of an HSR proposal more disadvantageous to the people of California than the one you envision.

 

[Travis]

You're comparing apples and oranges when you talk about where you live now versus where you'll be able to live at some point in the future; I'm guessing where you'll be able to live is a lot closer than three hours from an airport. And you're crazy if you show up at the airport two hours before you get on the plane; I typically arrive about an hour early, max, and usually have about 30-40 minutes of sitting by the gate.

You clearly aren't using the same airports. I arrived two and half hours early at Sacramento (nearest airport to me) and barely got on my plane on time. And why should I be forced to continue to use airplanes when we have the option to build a new electric train system like the ones in use in France, Germany, Sweden and the UK?

 

[Travis]

And then what? What do you think you'll be doing once you get there?

Well, there will be a HSR station just one mile from Disneyland for one. But once I'm at LA Union Station I could get on the Red Line to downtown or Hollywood. The Purple Line to Century City or UCLA. I could take the Exposition Line to Santa Monica. I could take the Crenshaw Line to LAX. I could take the Gold Line to Cal Tech, Pasedena or Pomona. Or the Blue Line to Long Beach. Pretty much anywhere I'd want to go in LA or its environs.

 

[Travis]

Where were all these rail "supporters" when we were ripping up railroad lines left and right and turning them into bicycle trails?

Crying tears and quietly making plans. For example I fought and fought to preserve an old SP line in Modesto for future light rail use and I lost. People wanted a trail now rather than hold onto it for a future transportation option. I was devastated.

Which you'll still need to transport people from the outlying HSR station into the city center, or do you think they'll all walk? I bet a HSR line in the same area would cost even more per mile.

No. First off you wouldn't need it because the plan is to use expanded transit networks to get people to stations.

And, no, a HSR will not cost more. Right now in the central valley construction costs are coming in around $30 million a mile for HSR but around $150 million a mile for freeway reconstruction. Keep in mind HSR only needs to construct something 30 feet wide on a 50 foot right of way. Freeways need at at least 250 feet of structure width and 300+ foot right of ways.

I take it that you buy Head-On as well. What you're describing is the advertised HSR. The REAL HSR will be quite different, for reasons I and others have described. And get real; the HSR is hardly going to be carbon-neutral. And it'll have to run regardless of how full it is--because people will demand it. Which increases the carbon footprint. Then there's the whole issue of putting an entirely new infrastructure. Oh, and all those additional things that are built into the project to satisfy the various politicians and pressure groups involved. But hey, I only worked on the damn thing; what do I know?

And apparently you went sour when your brilliant ideas were ignored. I guess "compromise" is a dirty word in your world.

Infrastructure we already have. You keep forgetting that part.

Infrastructure that is already hopelessly inadequate. Have you been on 580 lately? Eight lanes in a rural area and traffic jammed nearly all day long every day.

Not if it has to stop in every godforsaken backwater in the state it won't. I can't think of an HSR proposal more disadvantageous to the people of California than the one you envision.

The plan, as it stands, serves almost everyone. I think it is brilliant in that regard. What would your plan look like?

 

[Ziggurat]

Well, there will be a HSR station just one mile from Disneyland for one. But once I'm at LA Union Station I could get on the Red Line to downtown or Hollywood. The Purple Line to Century City or UCLA. I could take the Exposition Line to Santa Monica. I could take the Crenshaw Line to LAX. I could take the Gold Line to Cal Tech, Pasedena or Pomona. Or the Blue Line to Long Beach. Pretty much anywhere I'd want to go in LA or its environs.

And that will take you how long? You made an argument based on transit times, but you're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Ziggurat]

Nothing without a car. Unless the HSR terminal is within a mile of where you want to go. Walking in LA isn't the safest option.

That's not totally fair. If you're a healthy adult with no children, you can get around to a fair amount of LA with public transportation.

If you've got health problems or young children, though, public transportation is quite a bit more problematic, and vastly inferior to your own car.

 

[WildCat]

No. First off you wouldn't need it because the plan is to use expanded transit networks to get people to stations.

If it must be expanded it doesn't exist currently, correct?

And, no, a HSR will not cost more. Right now in the central valley construction costs are coming in around $30 million a mile for HSR but around $150 million a mile for freeway reconstruction. Keep in mind HSR only needs to construct something 30 feet wide on a 50 foot right of way. Freeways need at at least 250 feet of structure width and 300+ foot right of ways.

You can't possibly think it will cost the same to build it in LA as it does out in the valley. The land acquisition costs alone will be much, much greater.

And how much right of way does the extra freeway lane require? I doubt it's anywhere near 50'.

 

[Brainster]

You clearly aren't using the same airports. I arrived two and half hours early at Sacramento (nearest airport to me) and barely got on my plane on time. And why should I be forced to continue to use airplanes when we have the option to build a new electric train system like the ones in use in France, Germany, Sweden and the UK?

What, two hours plus in a security line? Sheesh, how long ago was that? When I flew over Christmas I got TSA pre-approved on my return flight (from Philly) and actually would have gotten through screening in about the same time (roughly 10 minutes) even if I hadn't.

 

[theprestige]

You clearly aren't using the same airports. I arrived two and half hours early at Sacramento (nearest airport to me) and barely got on my plane on time. And why should I be forced to continue to use airplanes when we have the option to build a new electric train system like the ones in use in France, Germany, Sweden and the UK?

What, two hours plus in a security line? Sheesh, how long ago was that? When I flew over Christmas I got TSA pre-approved on my return flight (from Philly) and actually would have gotten through screening in about the same time (roughly 10 minutes) even if I hadn't.

I call shenanigans. I've used Sacramento Airport for holiday travel regularly, for several years now. I've never had to deal with anything worse than the bog-standard 30-40 minute transit from curb to plane.

Unusual delays and missed connections can happen just as easily to trains as to planes. HSR won't solve Travis's problem.

And why should we be forced to buy Travis a billion-dollar boondoggle train set when we have a perfectly serviceable air travel network already?

 

[Ziggurat]

And why should we be forced to buy Travis a billion-dollar boondoggle train set when we have a perfectly serviceable air travel network already?

Travis's need for HSR extends beyond simple transportation requirements.