The Electric Comet theory

[Ziggurat]

No prize for predicting the sun will rise.

Indeed, you'd need to successfully predict when he doesn't reply true to form.

 

[Dancing David]

Not sure where you are coming from DD?

Do comets glow? have never seen a image espescialy fromm the Rosetta mission that shows a comet glowing unless you think ground based images of the coma glowing is causing you some confusion.

In that case I think you better start from page one of this thread.

I have read them all, you never have shown any data for the ECH

otherwise it's a case of 'ol mate except you're on the wrong horse ...again

Uh huh, so now you can't decipher standard english.
Bye Sol88, you quit even pretending to answer questions.

 

[ben m]

The [B]Electric Comet[/B] is a Charged Body and That leads to errors in calculated density as measured !

No it doesn't. Try it.

 

[tusenfem]

No it doesn't. Try it.

But ben m don't you know that the second approach plasma physical calculations are way too complicated and some of the math has not even been invented yet to do these calculations, and we don't actually really correctly do not absolutely know how plasma behaves in real space, so you will have to wait another couple of years and a few thousand posts, before the even an indication of a trial can be done.

 

[Haig]

If only someone would actually show these wrong calculations and correct them in the EC fantasy physics, so we can see what we are doing wrong ...

Hannes Alfvén did Try to warn the mainstream of the Errors they were making and continue to Make

In Memory of Hannes Alfven my bold

Alfvén was recognised for his contributions to the foundation of plasma physics by being awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1970. But his broadest contributions to cosmology and to the human view of our universe are not yet fully appreciated, since they still conflict with the dominant orthodoxy of the Big Bang and the mathematical-mythological approach to cosmology. In time, however, Alfvén will be viewed as the Galileo of the late twentieth century.

That the way tusenfem

But ben m don't you know that the second approach plasma physical calculations are way too complicated and some of the math has not even been invented yet to do these calculations, and we don't actually really correctly do not absolutely know how plasma behaves in real space, so you will have to wait another couple of years and a few thousand posts, before the even an indication of a trial can be done.

Gezz tusenfem you come across a little bitter

It's still Not too late to follow Alfvén's guidelines

 

[Haig]

Just as I predicted. Do I win the million? Do I? Do I?

No prize for predicting the sun will rise.

Indeed, you'd need to successfully predict when he doesn't reply true to form.

So being consistent and predictable is a fault is it

Pro tip: speculating that Newtonian gravity E/M doesn't apply to comets is a fail, as are non-existent electrostatic Dusty Plasma effects. It's that Alfvén reasoned that plasma phenomena, the phenomena of electricity and magnetism, not just gravity, must be dominant in shaping the evolution of the universe and That applies to Comets too

 

[Nonpareil]

Hannes Alfvén did Try to warn the mainstream of the Errors they were making and continue to Make

In Memory of Hannes Alfven my bold

Alfvén was recognised for his contributions to the foundation of plasma physics by being awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1970. But his broadest contributions to cosmology and to the human view of our universe are not yet fully appreciated, since they still conflict with the dominant orthodoxy of the Big Bang and the mathematical-mythological approach to cosmology. In time, however, Alfvén will be viewed as the Galileo of the late twentieth century.

BigBangNeverHappened.org.

Welp.

I guess this is what we're doing now.

 

[Ziggurat]

So being consistent and predictable is a fault is it

That depends on what you're consistent and predictable at, now, doesn't it?

I'll also note that my model of Electric Universe theorists is in no danger of being falsified.

 

[Haig]

Probably because those pictures tell us little to nothing about what we want to know, namely composition.

Hell, even on their own a lot of these pictures are deceptive. 67P is black, yet you'd never know that from looking at the pictures. Why? Because they're over-exposed so you can actually see them.

Are your comparison photos adjusted to match the same absolute brightness? No, they are not. They all look the same brightness because they're all individually adjusted for high contrast viewing. This isn't a valid comparison.

No it doesn't. Try it.

I can tell you two need a little more convincing.

The surprises for mainstream from comet 67P keep rolling in and by the end of this year I expect the Electric Comet hypothesis to continue to be shown to be extremely accurate.

Electric Comet 67P's closest approach to the Sun in August 2015 moving through perihelion with it's ion and dust tail sweeping around in defiance of gravity, like a stiff rod, pointing away from the sun that's clearly an E/M effect. How long will that tail be then ? and how much material will it contain ?

 

[Ziggurat]

I can tell you two need a little more convincing.

Some actual data (not just drawings) to support your beliefs might be nice.

The surprises for mainstream from comet 67P keep rolling in

And?

As I've said many times before, even if the mainstream is proven wrong, that won't make the EU and ECH folks right.

and by the end of this year I expect the Electric Comet hypothesis to continue to be shown to be extremely accurate.

How can they be shown to be accurate when they won't make a single quantitative prediction?

Do you even know what accuracy means?

How long will that tail be then ? and how much material will it contain ?

Interesting questions.

I can confidently predict that you cannot provide any answers.

 

[dasmiller]

Electric Comet 67P's closest approach to the Sun in August 2015 moving through perihelion with it's ion and dust tail sweeping around in defiance of gravity, like a stiff rod, pointing away from the sun that's clearly an E/M effect.

Since EC claims that we're seeing debris blown off the comet by EDM, and that EDM is caused by charge build-up as the comet moves through the sun's E-field, does EC predict that the comet will 'shut down' around perihelion when the comet stops moving radially?

 

[Ziggurat]

Since EC claims that we're seeing debris blown off the comet by EDM, and that EDM is caused by charge build-up as the comet moves through the sun's E-field, does EC predict that the comet will 'shut down' around perihelion when the comet stops moving radially?

You're forgetting the double layers, dude! The sun has double layers! That's twice as many layers as plasma with only single layers!

 

[tusenfem]

Hannes Alfvén did Try to warn the mainstream of the Errors they were making and continue to Make

In Memory of Hannes Alfven my bold

That the way tusenfem

Gezz tusenfem you come across a little bitter

It's still Not too late to follow Alfvén's guidelines

No, not bitter, just irony.

Interestingly, I worked at Alfvén's laboratory in Stockholm, when he was still around, talked to him, celebrated his 82nd birthday, worked on his double layers, got several of his books (some are too expensive unfortunately), use his theories appropriately, ...

That's the way, Haig

How much do you actually understand of Alfvén's scientific work?

 

[tusenfem]

The surprises for mainstream from comet 67P keep rolling in and by the end of this year I expect the Electric Comethypothesis to continue to be shown to be extremely accurate.

Electric Comet 67P's closest approach to the Sun in August 2015 moving through perihelion with it's ion and dust tail sweeping around in defiance of gravity, like a stiff rod, pointing away from the sun that's clearly an E/M effect. How long will that tail be then ? and how much material will it contain ?

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_3823654b771de65fcc.gif[/qimg]

My Bold

Sheesh, Haig, do you have actually ANY knowledge of cometary physics?
Hannes Alfvén already explaind the ion tail of comets in a paper in 1957 (Tellus 9, page 92) which is the accepted mainstream model for ion tail formation. Are you now saying that Alfvén was wrong? And where does gravity come in?

This thread is getting more crazy by the minute.

 

[Ziggurat]

And where does gravity come in?

That's particularly peculiar. It's like he doesn't understand that the tail is essentially orbiting the sun with the comet.

 

[ben m]

like a stiff rod, pointing away from the sun that's clearly an E/M effect. How long will that tail be then ? and how much material will it contain ?

What the heck? Not to go all Reality-Check on you, but we were talking about your claim that the comet's density had been mismeasured. Do you think that a post about comet tails has something to do with measurements of the comet's density (in which case you're deeply confused) or are you trying to change the subject (in which case you're Gish Galloping)?

 

[ben m]

You're forgetting the double layers, dude! The sun has double layers! That's twice as many layers as plasma with only single layers!

Double layers are used in the Sandia Z-pinch!

The Sandia Z-pinch creates nuclear fusion!

Nuclear fusion means explosions!

Explosions kill things, including large quadrupeds!

Therefore the cave paintings at Altamira are evidence that Comet Halley exploded like an electrically-powered H-bomb in 1986.

 

[Ziggurat]

With apologies

Whoa, that's a full plasma all the way
Double layer, oh my God, double layer
It's a double layer all the way... damn
It's a double layer all the way... damn
What does this mean? It's so bright, so vivid

Double layer, double layer, it's so intense (tense)
What does this mean? It's startin to even look like a triple layer
That's a whole plasma, man, ahhhh!

Double layer all the way 'cross the sky
Yeah, Yeeeeaaaaah, so intense
Double layer all the way 'cross the sky
Wow, wow, oh my God, look at that plasma

 

[Haig]

Since EC claims that we're seeing debris blown off the comet by EDM, and that EDM is caused by charge build-up as the comet moves through the sun's E-field, does EC predict that the comet will 'shut down' around perihelion when the comet stops moving radially?

Nope, as I understand it, the electrical stress will be at it's most intense at perihelion. The charged nucleus surrounded by it's plasma sheath at the closest point to the intensifying electric field of our variable star.

You're forgetting the double layers, dude! The sun has double layers! That's twice as many layers as plasma with only single layers!

Lot's more than THAT dude Essential Guide to the EU – Chapter 5
Plasma Sheaths, Cells, and Current-Free Double Layers

No, not bitter, just irony.

Interestingly, I worked at Alfvén's laboratory in Stockholm, when he was still around, talked to him, celebrated his 82nd birthday, worked on his double layers, got several of his books (some are too expensive unfortunately), use his theories appropriately, ...

That's the way, Haig

How much do you actually understand of Alfvén's scientific work?

Interesting tusenfem

I've read a lot of his papers (with open access) over the years and some of it did stick

My Bold

Sheesh, Haig, do you have actually ANY knowledge of cometary physics?
Hannes Alfvén already explaind the ion tail of comets in a paper in 1957 (Tellus 9, page 92) which is the accepted mainstream model for ion tail formation. Are you now saying that Alfvén was wrong? And where does gravity come in?

This thread is getting more crazy by the minute.

I was talking about the ion AND the dust tail sweeping around the Sun. Didn't get access to that paper of his in 1957.

That's particularly peculiar. It's like he doesn't understand that the tail is essentially orbiting the sun with the comet.

Ah! but it's deifying the strongest gravity source in the solar system while staying attached to one of the weakest

What the heck? Not to go all Reality-Check on you, but we were talking about your claim that the comet's density had been mismeasured. Do you think that a post about comet tails has something to do with measurements of the comet's density (in which case you're deeply confused) or are you trying to change the subject (in which case you're Gish Galloping)?

I was merely demonstrating that the behaviour of the comets tails (some can have up to nine) and the massively inflated coma are electrical phenomena around a charged rock moving in the electric field of the Sun.


Some Electric Comet bedtime reading

Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'
Postby Max Photon » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:12 pm

From the New York Times article "Rosetta Finds Out Much About a Comet, Even With a Wayward Lander"

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/23/s...about-a-comet-even-with-a-wayward-lander.html

we read interesting admissions:

On the surface of Comet 67P, there are even what look like ripples of sand dunes like those seen on Earth and Mars. That appears befuddling, as a comet has no atmosphere — and so no wind — and only a wisp of gravity.

“You have to ask yourself, is that possible?” said Nicolas Thomas, a professor of experimental physics at the University of Bern in Switzerland and lead author of one of the papers. Dr. Thomas said that back-of-the-envelope calculations indicated that it might be plausible, with the jets of gas acting as wind and the particles held together through intermolecular attraction known as the van der Waals force instead of gravity. “You can convince yourself you can make them move,” Dr. Thomas said. “It’s plausible, at least at the moment.”


and:

In the smooth regions, there are circular structures. “Which look very, very bizarre,” Dr. Thomas said. “To be frank, we don’t know how those things were created. We have no clue.”


and:

The jets of gas currently emanate from the neck area, a region named Hapi. That, too, seems counterintuitive because the neck is often in shade and cooler. But Dr. Sierks said the area was still warm enough and gravity was weaker there, allowing particles to escape more easily.


So, the comet scientists are struggling with what they are looking at.

 

[rwguinn]

What say ye, RC?

quote:
A notable feature of all spectra is the absence of water-ice absorption bands (at 1.5, 2.0, and 3.0 μm). This indicates that no water-ice–rich patches are present, across the nucleus surface, at a scale larger than ~10 m, with an upper limit on the water-ice abundance of ~1%. The lack of ice absorption features in our spectra, along with the relatively high surface temperature mentioned above, indicate that the top layers of the surface (estimated up to few hundred micrometers), which are probed by the reflected light, are composed mainly of dark dehydrated refractory materials.

but the sun can heat the well insulated subsurface ice at over 3AU????

a piddle of water ice frost found on 9P is all you have RC

Looks Like Heat Transfer and Thermodynamics are among the things we can add to the list of "Things that EC proponents know nothing about"