The Electric Comet theory

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must be subsurface hidden magical pink unicorns leaking water!
 
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Reality Check said:
The organic-rich surface of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko as seen by VIRTIS/Rosetta

Organic rich but not mineral rich - once again no rock found on the surface of 67P :p.
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A notable feature of all spectra is the absence of water-ice absorption bands (at 1.5, 2.0, and 3.0 μm). This indicates that no water-ice–rich patches are present, across the nucleus surface, at a scale larger than ~10 m, with an upper limit on the water-ice abundance of ~1%. The lack of ice absorption features in our spectra, along with the relatively high surface temperature mentioned above, indicate that the top layers of the surface (estimated up to few hundred micrometers), which are probed by the reflected light, are composed mainly of dark dehydrated refractory materials.
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What say ye, RC?

but the sun can heat the well insulated subsurface ice at over 3AU????

a piddle of water ice frost found on 9P is all you have RC :blush:
 
Subsurface properties and early activity of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

Subsurface properties and early activity of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko
Heat transport and ice sublimation in comets are interrelated processes reflecting properties acquired at the time of formation and during subsequent evolution. The Microwave Instrument on the Rosetta Orbiter (MIRO) acquired maps of the subsurface temperature of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko, at 1.6 mm and 0.5 mm wavelengths, and spectra of water vapor. The total H2O production rate varied from 0.3 kg s–1 in early June 2014 to 1.2 kg s–1 in late August and showed periodic variations related to nucleus rotation and shape. Water outgassing was localized to the “neck” region of the comet. Subsurface temperatures showed seasonal and diurnal variations, which indicated that the submillimeter radiation originated at depths comparable to the diurnal thermal skin depth. A low thermal inertia (~10 to 50 J K–1 m–2 s–0.5), consistent with a thermally insulating powdered surface, is inferred.
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Still no mention of the electric comet delusion.
 
67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko, a Jupiter family comet with a high D/H ratio

67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko, a Jupiter family comet with a high D/H ratio
The provenance of water and organic compounds on Earth and other terrestrial planets has been discussed for a long time without reaching a consensus. One of the best means to distinguish between different scenarios is by determining the deuterium-to-hydrogen (D/H) ratios in the reservoirs for comets and Earth’s oceans. Here, we report the direct in situ measurement of the D/H ratio in the Jupiter family comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko by the ROSINA mass spectrometer aboard the European Space Agency’s Rosetta spacecraft, which is found to be (5.3 ± 0.7) × 10−4—that is, approximately three times the terrestrial value. Previous cometary measurements and our new finding suggest a wide range of D/H ratios in the water within Jupiter family objects and preclude the idea that this reservoir is solely composed of Earth ocean–like water.
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And this wide range of D/H ratios is evidence against the electric comet delusion.
 
The morphological diversity of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

The morphological diversity of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko
Images of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko acquired by the OSIRIS (Optical, Spectroscopic and Infrared Remote Imaging System) imaging system onboard the European Space Agency’s Rosetta spacecraft at scales of better than 0.8 meter per pixel show a wide variety of different structures and textures. The data show the importance of airfall, surface dust transport, mass wasting, and insolation weathering for cometary surface evolution, and they offer some support for subsurface fluidization models and mass loss through the ejection of large chunks of material.
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On the nucleus structure and activity of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

On the nucleus structure and activity of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko
Images from the OSIRIS scientific imaging system onboard Rosetta show that the nucleus of 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko consists of two lobes connected by a short neck. The nucleus has a bulk density less than half that of water. Activity at a distance from the Sun of >3 astronomical units is predominantly from the neck, where jets have been seen consistently. The nucleus rotates about the principal axis of momentum. The surface morphology suggests that the removal of larger volumes of material, possibly via explosive release of subsurface pressure or via creation of overhangs by sublimation, may be a major mass loss process. The shape raises the question of whether the two lobes represent a contact binary formed 4.5 billion years ago, or a single body where a gap has evolved via mass loss.
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Dust measurements in the coma of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko inbound to the Sun

Dust measurements in the coma of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko inbound to the Sun
Critical measurements for understanding accretion and the dust/gas ratio in the solar nebula, where planets were forming 4.5 billion years ago, are being obtained by the GIADA (Grain Impact Analyser and Dust Accumulator) experiment on the European Space Agency’s Rosetta spacecraft orbiting comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko. Between 3.6 and 3.4 astronomical units inbound, GIADA and OSIRIS (Optical, Spectroscopic, and Infrared Remote Imaging System) detected 35 outflowing grains of mass 10−10 to 10−7 kilograms, and 48 grains of mass 10−5 to 10−2 kilograms, respectively. Combined with gas data from the MIRO (Microwave Instrument for the Rosetta Orbiter) and ROSINA (Rosetta Orbiter Spectrometer for Ion and Neutral Analysis) instruments, we find a dust/gas mass ratio of 4 ± 2 averaged over the sunlit nucleus surface. A cloud of larger grains also encircles the nucleus in bound orbits from the previous perihelion. The largest orbiting clumps are meter-sized, confirming the dust/gas ratio of 3 inferred at perihelion from models of dust comae and trails.
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An instrument that I had not heard any results from yet: Grain Impact Analyser and Dust Accumulator.
And a bit of science that I really should have expected - comets retain some dust from orbit to orbit.
 
Sol88 said:
must be subsurface hidden magical pink unicorns leaking water!
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must be another display of the inability to understand the contents of scientific papers, Sol88 :p.
We have the following in Science:
none of which mention models of how jets are generated.

However this is not surprising in someone who
Sol88 does not know the difference between comet jets and tails :jaw-dropp!
Sol88 does not know the difference between subsurface geyser and vent models :jaw-dropp!
 
Sol88: citations for "well insulated subsurface ice"

Sol88 said:
What say ye, RC?
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I say that the fallacy of argument from incredibility or ignorance is still strong in you, Sol88 :p!
There is also what looks like a lie (until you provide citations) about "well insulated subsurface ice" preventing sublimation at > 3AU.
 
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These astronomers do not seem surprised at > 3AU activity in a previous orbit.
WISE/NEOWISE PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS AND HIGHLIGHTS OF THE 67P/CHURYUMOV-GERASIMENKO NEAR NUCLEUS ENVIRONS
On 2010 January 18-19 and June 28-29, the Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer (WISE) spacecraft imaged the Rosetta mission target, comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko. We present a preliminary analysis of the images, which provide a characterization of the dust environment at heliocentric distances similar to those planned for the initial spacecraft encounter, but on the outbound leg of its orbit rather than the inbound. Broadband photometry yields low levels of CO{sub 2} production at a comet heliocentric distance of 3.32 AU and no detectable production at 4.18 AU. We find that at these heliocentric distances, large dust grains with mean grain diameters on the order of a millimeter or greater dominate the coma and evolve to populate the tail. This is further supported by broadband photometry centered on the nucleus, which yield an estimated differential dust particle size distribution with a power-law relation that is considerably shallower than average. We set a 3{sigma} upper limit constraint on the albedo of the large-grain dust at {<=}0.12. Our best estimate of the nucleus radius (1.82 {+-} 0.20 km) and albedo (0.04 {+-} 0.01) are in agreement with measurements previously reported in the literature.
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Real science has actual predictions, Sol88: Beginning of activity in 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko and predictions for 2014/5
We determine that the comet was active around November 2007, at a pre-perihelion distance from the Sun of 4.3 AU. The comet will reach this distance, and probably become active again, in March 2014. We find that the dust brightness can be well described by Af\rho \propto r^-3.2 pre-perihelion and r^-3.4 post-perihelion, and that the comet has a higher dust-to-gas ratio than average. A model fit to the photometric data suggests that only a small fraction (1.4%) of the surface is active.
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Where is your citation to the activity of 67 at > 3AU (as expected), Sol88?

ETA: 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko: Activity between March and June 2014 as observed from Rosetta/OSIRIS
Aims: 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko is the target comet of the ESA's Rosetta mission. After commissioning at the end of March 2014, the Optical, Spectroscopic, and Infrared Remote Imaging System (OSIRIS) onboard Rosetta, started imaging the comet and its dust environment to investigate how they change and evolve while approaching the Sun.
Methods: We focused our work on Narrow Angle Camera (NAC) orange images and Wide Angle Camera (WAC) red and visible-610 images acquired between 2014 March 23 and June 24 when the nucleus of 67P was unresolved and moving from approximately 4.3 AU to 3.8 AU inbound. During this period the 67P - Rosetta distance decreased from 5 million to 120 thousand km.
Results: Through aperture photometry, we investigated how the comet brightness varies with heliocentric distance. 67P was likely already weakly active at the end of March 2014, with excess flux above that expected for the nucleus. The comet's brightness was mostly constant during the three months of approach observations, apart from one outburst that occurred around April 30 and a second increase in flux after June 20. Coma was resolved in the profiles from mid-April. Analysis of the coma morphology suggests that most of the activity comes from a source towards the celestial north pole of the comet, but the outburst that occurred on April 30 released material in a different direction.
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Dancing David said:
So where is the data that supports electrical fields sufficient to make comets glow?
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Here's some of it with ALL the "Surprises" for the mainstream comet model hypothesis :D

Sure a comets coma glows electrically and can grow bigger than the diameter of the Sun :D What, you think it could be ices melting from it's nucleus ? :eek: That's ridiculous :p

Catching a comet SPECIAL ISSUE | 23 JANUARY 2015

Too right Sol88 it's a gold mine ;)


On the nucleus structure and activity of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko my bold
Activity and its source

OSIRIS has detected the presence of a dust coma since the pronounced outburst between 27 and 30 April 2014, or even earlier (18). We detected resolved features in the coma (SM2) in long WAC exposures with the 610-nm filter (SM1) at the end of July 2014, when the comet was 3.7 AU from the Sun and the spacecraft distance was 3000 km. Most of the activity was unambiguously coming out of the transition region between the small and large lobes of the nucleus, the Hapi region, or very close to it. This was consistent with ground-based observations of coma structures over the last two orbital periods, which implied an active region at high northern (positive) latitude (19). When the spacecraft distance dropped to 100 km (resulting in a resolution of 1.8 m/pixel in NAC, 10 m/pixel in WAC), it was possible to localize the active sources by inversion of the jets. Most of the jets arose from Hapi, at about +60° latitude (Fig. 4), although we found other minor active spots on both lobes of the nucleus (SM3). This major coma feature presents a diurnal variation of intensity due to changing insolation conditions and observational geometry: A planar fan-like jet appears brighter and more focused when viewed edge-on rather than face-on.
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Fig. 5 Map of energy input.
Left: A map looking at the northern (right-hand rule, positive) pole of 67P showing the total energy received from the Sun per rotation on 6 August 2014. The energy received includes thermal illumination by the surfaces of the comet itself. The base of the neck (Hapi) receives ~15% less energy than the most illuminated region, 3.5 × 106 J m−2 (per rotation). If self-heating were not included, the base of the neck would receive ~30% less total energy. Right: Similar to the left panel but showing total energy received over an entire orbital period in J m−2 (per orbit). This heating varies by only ~50% over the entire surface. Although not shown here, the opposite hemisphere receives essentially the same energy, but at a higher rate over a shorter time
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Comet close-up reveals a world of surprises my bold
A boring lump of ice and dust it's not. Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko—already the best explored comet ever—turns out to be pocked with pits, incised by cracks and cliffs, and decorated with ripples and flows of dust: all signs of an extraordinarily active place.
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In the walls of other pits, OSIRIS has spotted what could be features dating back to the comet's formation: what the team calls “goosebumps” or “dinosaur eggs,” nodules about 3 meters across
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The comet is still relatively quiet. Its jets are expected to become about a hundred times as active by the time 67P reaches its closest point to the sun in August. Pits will become geysers, cliff faces will tumble, and perhaps a more catastrophic shedding event awaits.
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That's only just a couple of papers I've read ...

Yip ... Electric Comet hypothesis here THEY come :D
 
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Haig said:
On the nucleus structure and activity of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko my bold
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Looks like you didn't read very closely, Haig. From your link above:

The volume of the model yields a mean density of 470 ± 45 kg/m3 when combined with the mass, 1.0 × 1013 kg, determined by the Radio Science Investigation (RSI) instrument​

That's a density of 0.47 Haig. Nowhere near that of rock. You and Sol asked for more data and there it is. Until you have a good explanation for this, discussing any other new data is useless. Pro tip: speculating that Newtonian gravity doesn't apply to comets is a fail, as are non-existent electrostatic effects.

Arm-waving and obfuscation in 3, 2, 1...

ferd
 
ferd burfle said:
Looks like you didn't read very closely, Haig. From your link above:

The volume of the model yields a mean density of 470 ± 45 kg/m3 when combined with the mass, 1.0 × 1013 kg, determined by the Radio Science Investigation (RSI) instrument​

That's a density of 0.47 Haig. Nowhere near that of rock. You and Sol asked for more data and there it is. Until you have a good explanation for this, discussing any other new data is useless. Pro tip: speculating that Newtonian gravity doesn't apply to comets is a fail, as are non-existent electrostatic effects.

Arm-waving and obfuscation in 3, 2, 1...

ferd
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Looks like you ferd didn't read very closely this thread, the density issue has been addressed many times ...

Compare a comet nucleus with an asteroid an ignoring the difference in size you would be hard pressed to tell them apart ! Why is THAT ?





The [B]Electric Comet[/B] is a Charged Body and That leads to errors in calculated density as measured !

WHAT IF? Asking the Dangerous Questions with Tom Wilson

Hope that clears it up for you ferd ;) N.B. adding dark matter and/or dark energy as mainstream do with their math puzzles is NOT the sensible way :eek:
 
Arm-waving and obfuscation in 3, 2, 1...

Haig said:
Looks like you ferd didn't read very closely this thread, the density issue has been addressed many times ...

Compare a comet nucleus with an asteroid an ignoring the difference in size you would be hard pressed to tell them apart ! Why is THAT ?


[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_3823654b1cbb4bef8c.jpg[/qimg]


The [B]Electric Comet[/B] is a Charged Body and That leads to errors in calculated density as measured !

WHAT IF? Asking the Dangerous Questions with Tom Wilson

Hope that clears it up for you ferd ;) N.B. adding dark matter and/or dark energy as mainstream do with their math puzzles is NOT the sensible way :eek:
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Lol
 
Haig said:
TheElectric Comet is a Charged Body and That leads to errors in calculated density as measured !
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If only someone would actually show these wrong calculations and correct them in the EC fantasy physics, so we can see what we are doing wrong ...
 
Haig said:
Compare a comet nucleus with an asteroid an ignoring the difference in size you would be hard pressed to tell them apart ! Why is THAT ?
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Probably because those pictures tell us little to nothing about what we want to know, namely composition.

Hell, even on their own a lot of these pictures are deceptive. 67P is black, yet you'd never know that from looking at the pictures. Why? Because they're over-exposed so you can actually see them.

Are your comparison photos adjusted to match the same absolute brightness? No, they are not. They all look the same brightness because they're all individually adjusted for high contrast viewing. This isn't a valid comparison.
 
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