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Heeeeeeere's Obamacare!

Self insurance for an individual would require stashing away enough cash to cover a serious medical problem. The heart attack my neighbor had last year that resulted in $200,000 in medical bills, but that is far from the worst case. The ACA could have created special provisions for the wealthy to self insure, but didn't. It would have applied to very small percentage of the population and require some form of vetting to assure they actually had sufficient assets to self insure. I suspect that almost everyone in the top 1% is insured via work or some corporate entity they set up for doing business.

If Bill Gates wants to pay cash for medical care, he is welcome to do so. He can buy a Bronze plan and never use it to avoid the penalty.
 
Self insurance for an individual would require stashing away enough cash to cover a serious medical problem. The heart attack my neighbor had last year that resulted in $200,000 in medical bills, but that is far from the worst case. The ACA could have created special provisions for the wealthy to self insure, but didn't. It would have applied to very small percentage of the population and require some form of vetting to assure they actually had sufficient assets to self insure. I suspect that almost everyone in the top 1% is insured via work or some corporate entity they set up for doing business.

If Bill Gates wants to pay cash for medical care, he is welcome to do so. He can buy a Bronze plan and never use it to avoid the penalty.

There are, of course, other options. Most people do not realize that most medical expenses are negotiable, they really aren't set in concrete prices and fees. I don't know how that could be addressed through legislation such as the ACA bill, but it is true.

Anecdotally, I have had several relatives who worked as case managers, and various other ancillary medical fields as well as within medical centers as physicians and nurses who didn't carry (sufficient) personal health insurance. (Most of these cases are a few years/decades in the past) who had major medical issues arise (heart surgeries, emergency gall bladder surgeries, extended hospitalizations, etc.) that initially resulted in very large billings. They contacted the hospitals, direct care providers and other assorted providers and negotiated their bills to a tiny fraction of the original charges. Many of the bills were written off entirely. I'm not saying that this is possible in all cases merely that because these people are intimately aware of the workings and processes of how billing for care functions within these systems they were able to negotiate bills that were initially in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars, down to pennies (or at least dimes) on the dollar. This type of situation is not available to everyone, but the point of me mentioning it, is that perhaps there should be a larger variety of coverage offered/acceptable to meeting ACA requirements.

Perhaps allowing an individual to create a personal health savings account with a secured deposit sufficient to annually cover relatively less expensive emergencies and routine/preventative care issues, and a catastrophic policy that does nothing but serve as back-up for those unexpected but relatively rare major events. This isn't going to be an option for the lower end wage earner, but a much larger portion of the more affluent mid-upper middle class professionals might find such an option attractive, at least while they are younger. Of course, such choice options, may require additional public funding to make up for the withdrawal of offsetting revenues from the system, and that tradeoff (more choice means more tax dollars) should be made a clear consequence of the options for more self-insurance options within the system, perhaps even directly targeting those who choose such self-insurance options.

Most of the complaints seem to revolve around the narrowed options currently allowed, and as the legislation matures, it would seem to be reasonable to create a framework where it could evolve into offering a more diverse set of coverage that allows for more options and personal choice.
 
Health care went up 4% in my school district plan this year. A welcome change from the double-digit increases we'd been seeing.

However, my district belongs to a self-insured group comprised of many other districts. I have no idea if the low increase was due to the ACA or simply members using less health care.
 
Perhaps allowing an individual to create a personal health savings account with a secured deposit sufficient to annually cover relatively less expensive emergencies and routine/preventative care issues, and a catastrophic policy that does nothing but serve as back-up for those unexpected but relatively rare major events. This isn't going to be an option for the lower end wage earner, but a much larger portion of the more affluent mid-upper middle class professionals might find such an option attractive, at least while they are younger.
This is one of those things that sounds great in theory, but falls down when you get real people involved. Honestly, if people could be trusted to put away enough money for basic and routine medical expenses, health insurance would look very different than it does today! But most people don't. Most people don't even manage to put away enough money to cover them in the event of job loss. 401Ks are woefully underfunded for retirement.

You'd have to invite the government in to check your account balance, maybe.
 
This is one of those things that sounds great in theory, but falls down when you get real people involved. Honestly, if people could be trusted to put away enough money for basic and routine medical expenses, health insurance would look very different than it does today! But most people don't. Most people don't even manage to put away enough money to cover them in the event of job loss. 401Ks are woefully underfunded for retirement.

You'd have to invite the government in to check your account balance, maybe.

Oh fully agreed. It would have to basically be a joint acct. with the government, or perhaps a government managed account. Very few people would have both the resources and desire to put away sufficient funds for such accounts. The idea is more about providing options. I'm still of the opinion that there should be a public option despite all the teeth gnashing and garment rending cries of "socialism," but, I'm mostly just trying to look at other possibilities that would result in similar outcomes, yet allow individuals to possess a greater amount of personal control (but quite likely greater cost).
 
The larger point is also that a person would probably do better by saving the money they would have spent on premiums into an HSA or other savings account.

I disagree with your argument, xjx388.
"Probably" is the crux. There is no risk pooling that way, which is what insurance is. Which is why insurance is the way most people pay for health spending.
 
The HR department organizes physical fitness, nutrition, and general health-related activities throughout the year. The number of activities you complete determines your tier for the next year's health insurance. The higher your tier, the less gets deducted from your paycheck.
We're healthier, so the company gets charged less, so we get charged less.

That sounds like a plan that needs to be more widely implemented!
That is a standard feature of most private (add-on) health policies available in Europe. (These are additional to state-funded cover though)
 
"Probably" is the crux. There is no risk pooling that way, which is what insurance is. Which is why insurance is the way most people pay for health spending.

This whole problem can be fixed by allowing the sale of catastrophic health plans with deductibles of X where X can be any amount (X may even be a multi-year deductible, to cover any issues with timing). Those who wish to buy such a plan, must demonstrate that they have the financial resources to cover X. Perhaps collateral worth more than X could be posted and maintained in the form of bonds or stock.
 
What whole problem?

The free-rider problem. That somebody doesn't pay for insurance for 20 years, spends all the money they saved on wine, women/men, and song, and then, when they get sick, they go bankrupt and have society pick up the tab.
 
To fix that problem you have to have mandatory insurance don't you?

Which is has the added benefit of removing the adverse selection problem.

Have you just argued for universal health insurance?
 
To fix that problem you have to have mandatory insurance don't you?

Which is has the added benefit of removing the adverse selection problem.

Have you just argued for universal health insurance?

Well, we do have mandatory insurance now. Personally, I don't think it's necessary. We never had much of a free-rider problem. What we had was a poverty problem where a lot of people could not afford the health care to which society thinks they're entitled. Obamacare solves that to some extent by redistributing more wealth, although a lot of the redistribution is surreptitious. But Obamacare was sold as a solution to the free-rider problem. I am proposing a different solution, but that doesn't mean I think it has been a material problem.

That said, if free-rider becomes a big problem, then mandatory catastrophic insurance is certainly the most reasonable solution. I would structure it like a tax (or rather a tax break), though, to make it constitutional and less dishonest.
 
Well, we do have mandatory insurance now. Personally, I don't think it's necessary. We never had much of a free-rider problem. What we had was a poverty problem where a lot of people could not afford the health care to which society thinks they're entitled. Obamacare solves that to some extent by redistributing more wealth, although a lot of the redistribution is surreptitious. But Obamacare was sold as a solution to the free-rider problem. I am proposing a different solution, but that doesn't mean I think it has been a material problem.

That said, if free-rider becomes a big problem, then mandatory catastrophic insurance is certainly the most reasonable solution. I would structure it like a tax (or rather a tax break), though, to make it constitutional and less dishonest.

We had an uninsured and under-insured problem leading to pre-existing conditions problem. Taking care of that brings up 'free rider' problem which is taken care of by mandated insurance 'problem'. It's the 3-legged stool. "Mandatory catastrophic insurance" is the Bronze Plan.
 
We had an uninsured and under-insured problem leading to pre-existing conditions problem. Taking care of that brings up 'free rider' problem which is taken care of by mandated insurance 'problem'. It's the 3-legged stool. "Mandatory catastrophic insurance" is the Bronze Plan.

Well, the pre-existing conditions problem did not have to lead to a free rider problem. In fact, the system was already handling it. If you had a pre-existing condition, you couldn't get insurance, so you had to pay for health care yourself. If you had something expensive happen, then you went broke and then could get assistance from the state (i.e. Medicaid). One way of improving the system was to provide people assistance at a higher threshold and not force them to go broke first, and that's certainly reasonable. But one of the (many) problems I have with Obamacare is that it didn't do this in an honest fashion. It is designed to redistribute wealth surreptitiously, mostly from the young to the old and from the healthy to the unhealthy.

As for the Bronze Plan, that isn't what I would call catastrophic insurance. The typical family deductible is $10K per year, but a lot of routine stuff runs into the thousands of dollars per year. So maybe when you subtract that out, you're only bearing the first $6K of an abnormal/catastrophic expense. A lot of people can afford many times that amount for a one-off.

Obamacare was sold as a cost control measure, but by Jonathan Gruber's admission, it was 90% wealth redistribution and only 10% cost control (and mostly unproven cost control at that). Pretty much the only thing I like in Obamacare is the Cadillac tax, which although slow and cumbersome and delayed, will eventually work to separate health insurance from employment. Unfortunately, I think the chance that it survives to be implemented in 2018 is less than 50%.
 
We are still awaiting the final implementation of ICD-10 (not to mention a standardized EHR system) which was originally scheduled to be phased in half a decade ago. Not that this is an end all to such issues, but with virtually everyone trying to avoid changing and updating their systems and training due to the expense of equipment, implementation and converting all existing records to the new standards, I can understand a bit of the foot-dragging, but it is starting to get ridiculous.


Started catching the first ICD-10 sliding out of Epic earlier this year.
 
We never had much of a free-rider problem.

We didn't have a free rider problem, because insurers were allowed to either a) risk rate and charge more for sicker people or b) decline coverage for pre-existing conditions, either for specific treatments or in total by denying coverage.

It has already been pointed out that this caused a different problem: uninsured and under-insured people.

Obama wasn't sold as a solution to a free-rider problem; it was sold as a solution to the un/under-insured problem.
 
As for the Bronze Plan, that isn't what I would call catastrophic insurance. The typical family deductible is $10K per year, but a lot of routine stuff runs into the thousands of dollars per year. So maybe when you subtract that out, you're only bearing the first $6K of an abnormal/catastrophic expense. A lot of people can afford many times that amount for a one-off.

Define "a lot of people", please.

I strongly suspect that your idea of "a lot" and my idea of "a lot" are very, very different.
 
Obama wasn't sold as a solution to a free-rider problem; it was sold as a solution to the un/under-insured problem.
That would not justify mandatory insurance though. If you merely disallow rescisions and exclusions, then there immediately is a free-rider, and an adverse selection issue, unless there is compulsion to insure.
 
We didn't have a free rider problem, because insurers were allowed to either a) risk rate and charge more for sicker people or b) decline coverage for pre-existing conditions, either for specific treatments or in total by denying coverage.

It has already been pointed out that this caused a different problem: uninsured and under-insured people.

Obama wasn't sold as a solution to a free-rider problem; it was sold as a solution to the un/under-insured problem.

Obamacare was sold as a way to control health care costs. Jonathan Gruber as much as admitted this, even bragged about it, in one of his many infamous videos. He claimed that because 85% of Americans were relatively satisfied with their health insurance, making sacrifices to increase access to insurance for the remaining 15%, as a standalone, was not politically feasible.
 
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