A truther thread in the media

[Alferd_Packer]

well, Newsweek at least.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/911-museum-acquires-truther-art/

When The Village Voice chose Anthony Freda to create artwork for a story about the 9/11 Truth movement, he first planned to gently mock the Truthers. It was 2006, and as the article stated, mainstream 9/11 accounts like the film World Trade Center had relegated the Truth movement to DIY documentaries and a few sweaty corners of the Internet. But as Freda researched the Truther claims, what they said made sense to him, especially about how Building 7 came down. “At the onset I was hostile to these ideas,” Freda says, “but by the end of my night of research I said that these are serious people with questions that haven’t been answered.”

Rather than attack the Truthers, Freda instead attacked the official narrative. The resulting piece, a collage called Questions, uses red string to connect images, like a detective on TV building a case on a bulletin board. Questions will soon join the permanent collection at the National September 11 Memorial & Museum, becoming one in a handful of artifacts there that represents an alternate view of history.

there is another thread at raw story on this

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/911-museum-acquires-truther-art/

 

[JayUtah]

I'm waiting for the followup installation, Answers. Oh wait, I've been waiting 13 years for that.

 

[beachnut]

You can't have reality, with a out some lies, BS, and fantasy added.

“You can’t have a 9/11 museum without the 9/11 Truth movement being represented in some way,” Freda says, though he concedes, “I’m still not sure what their motivations are for having this piece in there.” http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/911-museum-acquires-truther-art/comments/#disqus

Proof Freda is an idiot. If they label the painting ignorance fuels a failed movement based on hate and BS - then it belongs in the museum. What a way to mock the murdered of 911, have 911 truth in the museum.

You can't have an Animal History Museum without Unicorns, Bigfoots and Bugs Bunny.

How insulting to have BS in the 911 museum.

 

[Jango]

I'm waiting for the followup installation, Answers. Oh wait, I've been waiting 13 years for that.

Welcome to the party, pal.

 

[JayUtah]

Welcome to the party, pal.

No, you misunderstand.

"Truthers" are always adamant about asking questions. Any bozo can ask a question -- and it doesn't even have to be a good question. I'm waiting for Truthers to answer their own questions with appropriate research and science, thereby showing an actual interest in the topic beyond simply whining. They never do. They simply let their questions sit there as if there are no answers or never will be, even for questions that were answered long ago.

It's consummately dishonest and consummately lazy on their part. I give very little quarter to people who, out of an abundance of ignorance and arrogance, simply pose what they think are legitimate questions and refuse to engage in or submit to any sort of intellectual process designed to correct their misunderstanding.

Conversely, I see that you've been given answers to several of your questions, which you then promptly ignore. I suspect therefore that you just keep asking the same questions over and over again, ignoring the very reasonable answers from your critics, because at heart you really don't want answers. Your behavior is more consistent with someone who has a vested interest in propagating controversy for as long as it will last. You don't give any indication whatsoever that you want your mind changed.

So no, you and I are at very different parties.

 

[Orphia Nay]

"Museum spokespeople clarify to Newsweek that acquiring Questions doesn’t mean the museum is interested in any questioning of the standard narrative. “This artwork by a witness of the terror attacks in New York City, being accepted in the collection, references a perspective held by some who dispute historical accounts of September 11,” Chief Spokesman Michael Frazier writes in a statement. “While the Museum categorically disagrees with this perspective, does not in any way endorse it, and refutes it through our historical exhibitions, we recognize these baseless views were taken by some after 9/11 and see the artwork only as an artifact of that movement.”

"[...]The museum says it has no plans to display Freda’s work."

http://www.newsweek.com/911-museum-acquires-truther-art-300251

 

[LSSBB]

"Museum spokespeople clarify to Newsweek that acquiring Questions doesn’t mean the museum is interested in any questioning of the standard narrative. “This artwork by a witness of the terror attacks in New York City, being accepted in the collection, references a perspective held by some who dispute historical accounts of September 11,” Chief Spokesman Michael Frazier writes in a statement. “While the Museum categorically disagrees with this perspective, does not in any way endorse it, and refutes it through our historical exhibitions, we recognize these baseless views were taken by some after 9/11 and see the artwork only as an artifact of that movement.”

"[...]The museum says it has no plans to display Freda’s work."

http://www.newsweek.com/911-museum-acquires-truther-art-300251

Well, since artifacts are all that are left of the movement....

 

[HotRodDeluxe]

Truther 'art' in the museum?

 

[Jango]

No, you misunderstand.

"Truthers" are always adamant about asking questions. Any bozo can ask a question -- and it doesn't even have to be a good question. I'm waiting for Truthers to answer their own questions with appropriate research and science, thereby showing an actual interest in the topic beyond simply whining. They never do. They simply let their questions sit there as if there are no answers or never will be, even for questions that were answered long ago.

It's consummately dishonest and consummately lazy on their part. I give very little quarter to people who, out of an abundance of ignorance and arrogance, simply pose what they think are legitimate questions and refuse to engage in or submit to any sort of intellectual process designed to correct their misunderstanding.

Conversely, I see that you've been given answers to several of your questions, which you then promptly ignore. I suspect therefore that you just keep asking the same questions over and over again, ignoring the very reasonable answers from your critics, because at heart you really don't want answers. Your behavior is more consistent with someone who has a vested interest in propagating controversy for as long as it will last. You don't give any indication whatsoever that you want your mind changed.

So no, you and I are at very different parties.

There have been responses, sure, but how do you know if my questions were actually answered or not, what, because you agree with the responses I've gotten? No surprise there.

 

[Spanx]

There have been responses, sure, but how do you know if my questions were actually answered or not, what, because you agree with the responses I've gotten? No surprise there.

I don't know why you bother ? If any questions you ask are not answered how you want them to be you just ignore them and go into denial mode.

It's best you stick to Truther sites who will pat you on the back and make you feel at home.

You could always open a new thread and clearly state your questions. After following your posts, I personally find it hard to work out what your questions actually are.

 

[Dave Rogers]

There have been responses, sure, but how do you know if my questions were actually answered or not, what, because you agree with the responses I've gotten? No surprise there.

So you don't accept answers you don't agree with? Sounds like you're more interested in confirming your fantasies than accepting reality. And that, in a nutshell, is your problem.

Dave

 

[Jango]

So you don't accept answers you don't agree with? Sounds like you're more interested in confirming your fantasies than accepting reality. And that, in a nutshell, is your problem.

Dave

Again, who says that the responses to my inquiries are answers at all and not just responses?

 

[Ape of Good Hope]

Again, who says that the responses to my inquiries are answers at all and not just responses?

Perhaps this is more a question for the Religion and Philosophy sub forum.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4


This particular thread is about "a truther thread in the media".


If you want to meaningfully address the issue of responses/answers/links regarding your questions, maybe you should do so in threads such as this one.


ETA - I see you've made a start, but there's a way to go yet...

 

[JayUtah]

Again, who says that the responses to my inquiries are answers at all and not just responses?

Because of silly word games like this. You either ignore the answers entirely or you deflect to minutiae or a new topic. All of that indicates you have little desire to discuss the answers.

 

[LSSBB]

Again, who says that the responses to my inquiries are answers at all and not just responses?

If in your mind a response does not answer your question, respond with your clear and specific objections. This step should be done after a self-honest reappraisal of your question and how the response relates to it. Goal 1 is to resolve the matter.

 

[JayUtah]

"[...]The museum says it has no plans to display Freda’s work."

http://www.newsweek.com/911-museum-acquires-truther-art-300251

The work itself is indeed more art than argument. It's a collage of visual and textual allusions to elements of various 9/11 conspiracy theory. So while calling it Questions is depictive enough, it really doesn't raise any. And certainly alludes to none that haven't already been answered in spades.

One of the elements, for example, asks why the inbound aircraft weren't intercepted. There are, of course, reasonable answers to that. But the question left dangling like that makes no reference to any of them. The rhetorical value of such questions in Truther mythology comes from tacit assumptions, many of which -- if examined -- would turn out to be unfounded. No Truther wants the answer to his questions to be, "Because Truthers don't know what they're talking about." Yet that's often the underlying reason, as it is in quite a number of conspiracy theories.

The issue of the museum retaining the art in the collection (even if it's not on display) is more a meta-issue. Museums preserve, and sometimes must do so without undue judgment or interpretation. As the spokesman said, the fact that some people questioned the conventional narrative is a legitimate part of the 9/11 human experience. Tokens of that fact are legitimate, even if the rhetoric underlying those questions ultimately lacks foundation.

 

[FenerFan]

“At the onset I was hostile to these ideas,” Freda says, “but by the end of my night of research I said that these are serious people with questions that haven’t been answered.”

Wow, an entire night of research! I'm sure that was more than enough time for an artist to come to a reasoned conclusion as to the causes of the collapse of a high rise building.

 

[Ape of Good Hope]

Because of silly word games like this. You either ignore the answers entirely or you deflect to minutiae or a new topic. All of that indicates you have little desire to discuss the answers.

If in your mind a response does not answer your question, respond with your clear and specific objections. This step should be done after a self-honest reappraisal of your question and how the response relates to it. Goal 1 is to resolve the matter.

I noticed Jango offered this information in his defence, in another thread:

...the medication I take affects my memory...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10419480#post10419480


I don't know how much of a pinch of salt to take this with, but if he's to be believed it perhaps offers a degree of mitigation regarding the haphazard flitting about from thread to thread.

 

[DGM]

I think the museums reasoning for accepting it is sound. The "truth" movement did play a big part in a lot of people getting better educated about the events of 9/11. I believe it was their efforts to educate people that lead to their failure.

In a sense, the "truthers" did do something productive.

 

[Ape of Good Hope]

The work itself is indeed more art than argument. It's a collage of visual and textual allusions to elements of various 9/11 conspiracy theory. So while calling it Questions is depictive enough, it really doesn't raise any. And certainly alludes to none that haven't already been answered in spades.

Freda's work reminds me of Remo's pieces:

http://www.rogermorris.co.nz/index.php?/sculpture/911-is-an-inside-job/

Both artists work is technically proficient and has merit when taken on purely visual terms but is (and here I'm speaking specifically about their 9/11 pieces) conceptually buggered.


I kind of like it in the same way that I like outsider art - it reminds me of the stuff David Byrne used to appropriate for Talking Heads album covers; Howard Finster and suchlike.