Kauffer
Master Poster
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2014
- Messages
- 2,382
It is theoretically possible, but it is not realistic, if you consider the principles of ECHR. The ECHR acknowledgest that the right to counsel can suffer delays or limitation for cautionary reasons that depend on the need to pretect the effectivness of investigation, since the effectiveness of investigation is a public interest which has a need to be protected as well as human rights, and human rights are supposed to pay a price (be "partly sacrified") when they come into conflict with other rights.
It is not easy to establish a point of balance between conflicting rights. For example, it won't be easy to tell how long a delay to access counsel would be "reasonable" (48 hours is not 5 days - and Italian law allows up to 5 days). So not all "delays" are the same. But it is certalily easy to tell that the answer won't be completely slanted on one side, it's not going to be the absolute extension of the rights of an individual in detriment to the collective interest. If that was the case, even cautionary custody wouldn't exist; cautionary custody is a law by which a legally innocent person is kept in jail for cautionary reasons. The liberties of individuals are restricted for reasons of public interest.
It's not because it facilitated the prosecution, it's because there was a cautionary need to safeguard the investigation from a risk of being polluted.
Your reasoning about the five days is baseless: Mignini delayed the right to counsel until the investigating judge hearing, so that the defendants would have a chance to be examined by the investigating judge before their testimonies may get "polluted" by each other.
We are talking about three defendants who were arrested at the same time while they were in the process of accusing each other about an extremely serious crime, with Knox even attempting to communicate threatning messages ("blood on hands"): this was obviously the specific and exceptional circumstance.
The problem you seem to have is being able to identify by citation from the case law, support for your contention that the ECHR is going to recognise "compelling reasons" for the denial of counsel in the present case. I cannot confirm an exhaustive search of all the 115 or so post Salduz judgements handed down by the ECHR, but between us here we have considered a good many.
There really is "no point of balance", no "conflicting rights" - not in this case.
But that's not your major problem. Your major problem is finding any exception relevant to the present case where statements used from interrogations without the benefit of counsel have been permitted to support convictions. Or perhaps you think the ECHR will anyway conclude that the 5:45 statement was the product of a "not an interrogation" kind of interrogation and congratulate Mignini for his most proper work?
...and you do realise don't you, unlike Popper, that one Article 6 violation and this conviction and this sentence is history, toast, never happened, doesn't count...etc etc. Have you explained that to all your boys and girls? CSC decision no. 2800? You have seen it right?