Athiest's are wrong, God Exists, Science proves it

[MikeG]

I barely know any christians, but those that I do know seem to think god started the whole evolution thing off, then let it go on its merry way.

 

[Trakar]

The idea that God guided evolution, which is how the Christians I've talked to seem to reconcile evolution with their faith, is certainly not compatible with the theory of evolution by natural selection.

Not all Christians take the "guided" perspective.

To some, the mere act of creating a universe where life such as that we see around us was a possible occurrence is sufficient to rejoice in the wonders of the universe which has resulted from that initial act of creation.

 

[tsig]

Not all Christians take the "guided" perspective.

To some, the mere act of creating a universe where life such as that we see around us was a possible occurrence is sufficient to rejoice in the wonders of the universe which has resulted from that initial act of creation.

They don't believe Christ died for their sins and was resurrected?

 

[Trakar]

They don't believe Christ died for their sins and was resurrected?

They wouldn't be Christian (to my understanding of the term) if they did not believe these primary tenets. Precisely how those tenets are interpreted and understood by each individual, is really an issue between them and their understanding of God. I, personally, don't feel entitled or qualified to pass judgment upon such personal spiritual interactions, but they all seem to be intelligent, kind, generous and compassionate individuals.

 

[Dinwar]

The idea that God guided evolution, which is how the Christians I've talked to seem to reconcile evolution with their faith, is certainly not compatible with the theory of evolution by natural selection.

Why not? In order to make this statement, you have to assume God thinks like we do--an assumption that many find repugnant, to say the least. It was widely believed in the 1700s or so that God had caused repeated catastrophhies on Earth, showing what we see in the fossil record. That's a type of guided evolution that doesn't violate what we know about evolution--who threw the K/Pg impactor is irrelevant, after all.

Can we stop pretending that Biblical Literalist are some tiny statistically insignificant minority that is ruining it for everybody else?

I will when folks here stop pretending that they make up 100% of religious people.

Merely that outside of these exceptions, most of the larger Christian denominations accept and acknowledge the general scientific discoveries of the last few hundred years, regardless of the beliefs of their church members.

You will never convince the folks here that theists aren't scientifically illiterate morons. I've given up trying.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Why not? In order to make this statement, you have to assume God thinks like we do--an assumption that many find repugnant, to say the least. It was widely believed in the 1700s or so that God had caused repeated catastrophhies on Earth, showing what we see in the fossil record.

So He's a right dick? How is that different from the people who invented him?

 

[Mudcat]

... because planets are very far away and hard to find, and therefore the vast majority of extrasolar planets that we've been able to find are very large planets which are easier to spot but, for that exact same reason are unable to support life as we know.

Edit by Mudcat

I can't disagree with a large majority of what you posted but if you keep a lively mind and assume that basic animal life can take any form and can arise in unlikely places then it is possible to find life even on Jovian planets. Just saying.

 

[Dinwar]

So He's a right dick? How is that different from the people who invented him?

Can you make a post without personal attacks against theists?

I can't disagree with a large majority of what you posted but if you keep a lively mind and assume that basic animal life can take any form and can arise in unlikely places then it is possible to find life even on Jovian planets. Just saying.

I can't agree....Life at least needs a place to grow--a substraight of some sort. I'm not convinced a gas giant can do that. Then again, life may be introduced there from somewhere else (a moon, for example)....

 

[Mudcat]

I can't agree....Life at least needs a place to grow--a substraight of some sort. I'm not convinced a gas giant can do that. Then again, life may be introduced there from somewhere else (a moon, for example)....

The way I figure it is that there are broken bits of small planetoids in the atmosphere whirling about in the atmospheres of Jovian planets in which basic life can grow on and shelter in. We are talking about planets with perpetual wind speeds in the thousands of miles per hour, after all. It's unlikely that everything that breaks up in their atmosphere makes it all the way to the core.

 

[Pixel42]

Why not? In order to make this statement, you have to assume God thinks like we do--an assumption that many find repugnant, to say the least. It was widely believed in the 1700s or so that God had caused repeated catastrophhies on Earth, showing what we see in the fossil record. That's a type of guided evolution that doesn't violate what we know about evolution--who threw the K/Pg impactor is irrelevant, after all.

Evolution by natural selection is the inevitable result of whatever environmental pressures arise, and it's hard to see how such an essentially mindless and goalless process can be said to be guided in any meaningful sense. Yes I suppose you can imagine God deliberately creating and tweaking those environmental pressures to coax it in a particular direction, but then I would not expect the pauses, diversions down dead ends and changes in direction we actually see. If you imagine a God who's just capriciously playing around you could reconcile that with what we see, but that's not the kind of God most Christians seem to believe in.

 

[Dinwar]

I'd need to see the math to accept that--it's very hard to keep rocks floating in hydrogen.

On the other hand, dust is very, very easy to keep floating, and can carry life forms. The K/Pg impact threw enough dust into the atmosphere to block enough sunlight to shut down the ecosystem, and it stayed up there roughly 1,000 years. Relatively small eruptions can put dust in the upper atmosphere for a year or more. So yeah, I can see dust functioning as islands for microbial life forms. Damn hard to check--the posibility for contamination is enormous.

 

[Dinwar]

Yes I suppose you can imagine God deliberately creating and tweaking those environmental pressures to coax it in a particular direction, but then I would not expect the pauses, diversions down dead ends and changes in direction we actually see.

To you and me they may be dead ends. To God? I'd need to see some substantiating arguments to support this.

 

[Son of Inigo]

Well, as my cousin might say, God created the universe and all its evidence against him in order to test your faith.

My answer to that is why does god lie? If you believe the god of the bible, then he does not lie. I do not wish to worship a god that lies. By the bible, god created us in his image, our ability to observe and interpret those observations comes from him. He created in us the ability to reason, but created a universe that our observations tell us is radically different than his infallible spoken word. That is dishonest. That is not the god of the bible.

So, either the god of the bible is dishonest, or he does not exist. By my god given reason, I choose to believe he does not exist, because I do not wish to worship a dishonest being.

 

[Mudcat]

I'd need to see the math to accept that--it's very hard to keep rocks floating in hydrogen.

Normally, yes. But the states of the gasses in Jovian planets change form the deeper you go.

In any case, even if there is life on Uranus (for example) it would not be easy to verify.

On the other hand, dust is very, very easy to keep floating, and can carry life forms. The K/Pg impact threw enough dust into the atmosphere to block enough sunlight to shut down the ecosystem, and it stayed up there roughly 1,000 years. Relatively small eruptions can put dust in the upper atmosphere for a year or more. So yeah, I can see dust functioning as islands for microbial life forms. Damn hard to check--the posibility for contamination is enormous.

Agreed.

 

[tsig]

To you and me they may be dead ends. To God? I'd need to see some substantiating arguments to support this.

GWIMW

Before you start attributing things to god you might want to prove it exists.

 

[tsig]

Well, as my cousin might say, God created the universe and all its evidence against him in order to test your faith.

Then why did he inspire the bible if he wants to remain hidden?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Can you make a post without personal attacks against theists?

Where's the fun in that.

 

[Dinwar]

Where's the fun in that.

Uh....huh. That says it all, doesn't it?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Uh....huh. That says it all, doesn't it?

I don't like the people that make up gods, they're a serious problem to society at large. I don't mind pissing them off, it's good to make them remember they can't rely on their sky daddy.

 

[psionl0]

Yes I suppose you can imagine God deliberately creating and tweaking those environmental pressures to coax it in a particular direction, but then I would not expect the pauses, diversions down dead ends and changes in direction we actually see.

"I don't understand it - therefore NOT God"? I presume you realize that you are using the same argument as creationists use (albeit with the opposite conclusion).

You need to understand that as far as scientific knowledge goes, an analogy would be that we have discovered how to wire a couple of on-off switches together to make elementary combinational logic circuits while the vast world of the internet is yet to be discovered.

That is why it is ridiculous to say that "science proves God" (as Elf Grinder 3000 apparently does) nor that it can say anything at all about religious matters.