The Historical Jesus II

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dejudge said:
The Catholic Church of Rome CORRUPTED the INTEGRITY of the Gospel and REMODELED the short gMark --three-fold, four fold and many fold degree.

CraigB said:
You are admitting that there was an original Jesus story, more accurate and less corrupt, later remodelled by the Church. All these admissions illustrate a less corrupt historical CORE OF the Gospel material, and therefore a historical JESUS.

You continue to write more fiction and your conclusion is illogically derived.

I have never argued that there was a more accurate original Jesus story.

I am arguing that the Catholic Church of Rome CORRUPTED and REMODELED the short gMark.

In the short gMark, Jesus was a Resurrecting Transfiguring SEA water walking Son of a God.

The Jesus in the short gMark was always a figure of mythgology/fiction BEFORE it was CORRUPTED and REMODELED.

Jesus the Resurrecting Transfiguring Sea water walking Son of a God in the short gMark did NOT visit the disciples and did NOT commission them to preach the Gospel AFTER he was raised from the dead.

But, now examine this verse in the CORRUPTED and REMODELED version of gMark 16.17.

The Corrupted and Remodeled Long gMark 16.17.

They shall take up serpents and if they drink any deadly thing it shall NOT hurt them...

Please, tell us who survived after he was bitten by a serpent?

SAUL/PAUL in Acts 28 was bitten by a VIPER and no harm was done to him.

Acts 28---
3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand..... And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.

The FOUR named Gospels, Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline Corpus are ALL CORRUPTED and REMODELED versions of the Gospel.

The Resurrecting Transfiguring Sea water walking Son of a God in the short gMark did NOT tell the disciples to preach the Gospel and that Serpents would NOT harm them.

Who claimed the resurrected Jesus commissioned him to preach the Gospel to the uncircumcision and also commissioned Peter to preach to the circumcision.

In Galatians 2 the Pauline writer made statements that are in agreement with the CORRUPTED and REMODELED Long gMark.


Galatians 2
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles...

Examine the words of the Resurrected Jesus in the CORRUPTED and REMODELED gMark.


The Corrupted and Remodeled Long gMark 16:15
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Who preached the Gospel?

The Pauline writers are in agreement with the Corrupted and Remodeled version of the Gospel.


Romans 15 .....from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel.

Galatians 4:13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.

The Pauline Corpus is based on the CORRUPTED and REMODELED version of the Gospel of the Long gMark.
 
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Please, identify the "Gregory-Aland" number for the IMAGINARY Pauline Corpus that is being dated to 50-60 CE?

Please tell us where the c 50-60 CE IMAGINARY manuscript was found?

Please, tell us the Provenance of the IMAGINARY c 50-60 CE Pauline Corpus?

Please tell us WHO actually examined the contents of the IMAGINARY manuscript and managed to date it within 10 years c 50-60 CE ...

Please, stop the propaganda, stop the hoax, stop the jokes and present the IMAGINARY c 50-60 CE manuscripts of the Pauline Corpus.

No Pauline letters were composed c 50-60 CE by Paul in the very NT itself.
But there are no such manuscripts in existence. You know that, dejudge. We only have later manuscripts, though still quite early ones. You know this, and you know why: because only later did copies of Paul's letters become common. You have made me sad again. Why? Because of what I wrote about this previously:
Well, dejudge, I think that does it. Finally I admit that you will never be able to grasp the difference between the date of composition of a text, and the palaeographic estimate of the date of a manuscript. That is a pity. A great pity. So now the gospels and Paul were invented in the fourth century, even though we have manuscripts and notices of these works before that time. All these delusions make me very sad.
 
dejudge said:
Please, identify the "Gregory-Aland" number for the IMAGINARY Pauline Corpus that is being dated to 50-60 CE?

Please tell us where the c 50-60 CE IMAGINARY manuscript was found?

Please, tell us the Provenance of the IMAGINARY c 50-60 CE Pauline Corpus?

Please tell us WHO actually examined the contents of the IMAGINARY manuscript and managed to date it within 10 years c 50-60 CE ...

Please, stop the propaganda, stop the hoax, stop the jokes and present the IMAGINARY c 50-60 CE manuscripts of the Pauline Corpus.

No Pauline letters were composed c 50-60 CE by Paul in the very NT itself.


But there are no such manuscripts in existence. You know that, dejudge. We only have later manuscripts, though still quite early ones.

You have confirmed the HOAX.

You knew all along that that there was NO Papyri or Codex of the Pauline Corpus dated WITHIN a 10 year period c 50-60 CE.

You knew all along that you were using IMAGINARY manuscripts or the 20th century NIV compiled from even manuscripts of the MIDDLE AGES.

Stop your jokes.

I already know WE ONLY HAVE LATER MANUSCRIPTS of the Pauline Corpus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...i#List_of_all_registered_New_Testament_papyri


Again, please tell us which version of the Pauline Corpus was dated to c 50-60 CE by UNKNOWN persons?
 
The Pauline Corpus is based on the Corrupted and Remodeled Long gMark.

The Integrity of the Gospel in the short gMark have been manipulated.

Examine the Corrupted and Remodeled gMark 16.17.

The Corrupted and Remodeled g Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe ; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues.

Examine the Corruption of the Gospel in the Pauline Corpus.


1 Corinthians
14:18-- I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all


Examine the Corruption of the Gospel in Acts
Acts 2
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance..


The resurrected Jesus in the Gospel of the short gMark told NO-ONE that they would speak in tongues or do so on the day of Pentecost after he was raised from the dead.

The authors of the Pauline Corpus and Acts of the Apostles have CORRUPTED and REMODELED the integrity of the Gospel.

Origen's "Against Celsus"
27. [Celsus' Jewish critic]: The Christian believers........ have corrupted the Gospel from its original integrity, to a threefold, and fourfold, and many-fold degree, and have remodeled it, so that they might be able to answer objections.
 
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You have confirmed the HOAX.

You knew all along that that there was NO Papyri or Codex of the Pauline Corpus dated WITHIN a 10 year period c 50-60 CE.
Yes that's right. I've said it plenty of times. It's like Caesar's Gallic War. Only that's even worse. No extant manuscript earlier than the ninth century.
You knew all along that you were using IMAGINARY manuscripts or the 20th century NIV compiled from even manuscripts of the MIDDLE AGES.
No, dejudge. I didn't imagine any manuscripts. I stated that there are NO manuscripts known to survive from c 50-60 CE.
Stop your jokes.
The Pauline writings are a HOAX? The conventional dating of Paul is a JOKE? If so, it's not a very funny joke. Manuscripts of Paul are either imaginary or date from the Middle Ages? These are very strange statements. Are they a joke for the Festive Season?
 
dejudge said:
You knew all along that you were using IMAGINARY manuscripts or the 20th century NIV compiled from even manuscripts of the MIDDLE AGES.

No, dejudge. I didn't imagine any manuscripts.

I stated that there are NO manuscripts known to survive from c 50-60 CE.

Your posts are recorded. You stated that there was INTERNAL evidence in the Pauline Corpus to date them within a 10 year period and around c50-60 CE.

Which manuscript, which Codex which version of the Pauline Corpus has INTERNAL evidence to date it to 50-60 CE?

CraigB said:
...The Pauline writings are a HOAX? The conventional dating of Paul is a JOKE? If so, it's not a very funny joke. Manuscripts of Paul are either imaginary or date from the Middle Ages? These are very strange statements. Are they a joke for the Festive Season?

You have been writing so much fiction, logical fallacies and jokes that you have completely forgotten that the Pauline Corpus is a compilation of MULTIPLE writers POSING as Paul.

The claim that the Pauline writings are from ONE character called PAUL was a Hoax.

If the Pauline Corpus was NOT a Hoax please tell us who wrote the Epistles to Timothy and Titus?

Please, tell us if FAKE Paul left a coat with Carpus?

Please tell us if FAKE Paul left some scrolls at Troas?

Can you DATE Fake Paul writings?


2 Timothy 4:13 (NIV)
13 When you come, bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas, and my scrolls, especially the parchments.
 
Yes, I am very much mindful of that, which is why I always use expressions like "palaeographic estimate" and similar. Obviously it is extremely difficult to date manuscripts within limits closer than the length of the career of the scribe who penned them. And in practice the margin of error is significantly wider than that.

You may be mindful of this but others aren't.

Wikiperida's Biblical manuscript page at one time had this piece of nonsense:

"Paleography, a science of dating manuscripts by typological analysis of their scripts, is the most precise and objective means known for determining the age of a manuscript." :boggled:


It then got even more insane:

"Script groups belong typologically to their generation; and changes can be noted with great accuracy over relatively short periods of time."

People are spreading a lot of nonsense about Paleography's accuracy.
 
Your posts are recorded. You stated that there was INTERNAL evidence in the Pauline Corpus to date them within a 10 year period and around c50-60 CE.

Which manuscript, which Codex which version of the Pauline Corpus has INTERNAL evidence to date it to 50-60 CE?
I still don't think you're able to grasp the concept of internal evidence, dejudge. It's evidence in the wording, regardless of the age of the manuscript on which the words are inscribed and you can't understand that, so your question is quite simply without any sensible answer. As I say, it makes me very sad.
 
You are admitting that there was an original Jesus story, more accurate and less corrupt, later remodelled by the Church. All these admissions illustrate a less corrupt historical CORE OF the Gospel material, and therefore a historical JESUS.

Actually no. gM, even without the forged long ending, is fiction. It is not possible to tease out any "historical core".

About the only thing HJ proponents have to hang their hat on is "James, the Lord's brother". And HJ proponents must admit the controversy surrounding that phrase.

In the end, we cannot know if there was an HJ. I am beginning to have serious doubts an HJ existed but will state we can't know either way.
 
... In the end, we cannot know if there was an HJ. I am beginning to have serious doubts an HJ existed but will state we can't know either way.
That's quite reasonable; but it's very different from saying that the NT is a hoax perpetrated by insane forgers in the fourth century, or whatever it is dejudge happens to be saying at the moment.

I still think the preponderance of evidence is in favour of an HJ, but it is by no means conclusive, I agree.
 
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dejudge said:
Your posts are recorded. You stated that there was INTERNAL evidence in the Pauline Corpus to date them within a 10 year period and around c50-60 CE.

Which manuscript, which Codex which version of the Pauline Corpus has INTERNAL evidence to date it to 50-60 CE?

I still don't think you're able to grasp the concept of internal evidence, dejudge. It's evidence in the wording, regardless of the age of the manuscript on which the words are inscribed and you can't understand that, so your question is quite simply without any sensible answer. As I say, it makes me very sad.

Please identify the "wording" in the Pauline Corpus to date letters to c 50-60 CE?

Please IDENTIFY the Gregory-Aland numbers for the manuscripts WITH "WORDING" to date letters of the Pauline Corpus to c 50-60 CE?

Let us go through the letters WORDING by WORDING!!!

What is YOUR "WORDING" to date Romans??

What is YOUR "WORDING" to date 1 Corinthians?

What is YOUR "WORDING" to date 2 Corinthians?

What is YOUR "WORDING" to date Galatians?

What is YOUR "WORDING" to date Ephesians

What is YOUR "WORDING" to date Philippians?

What is YOUR "WORDING" to date Colossians?

What is YOUR "WORDING" to date 1 Thessalonians?

What is YOUR "WORDING" to date 2 Thessalonians?

What is YOUR "WORDING" to date 1 Timothy?

What is YOUR "WORDING" to date 2 Timothy?

What is YOUR "WORDING" to date Titus?

What is YOUR "WORDING" to date Philemon?

You have ALREADY admitted you have NO manuscripts and NOW you will have to admit you have NO WORDING to date letters of the Pauline Corpus to c50-60 CE.

If there was WORDING to date letters of the Pauline Corpus to c 50-60 CE then Paleographers would have done so.

You have completely forgotten that Paleographers EXAMINE EVERY SINGLE WORD, EVERY SINGLE LETTER, EVERY WORDING, EVERY LINE, and EVERY THING WRITTEN ON THE MANUSCRIPT.

You have presented another HOAX [another practical Joke].

You know that you cannot show any "WORDING" to date letters in the Pauline Corpus to c 50-60 CE.

Please, stop the HOAX.

You have NO "WORDING"
 
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About the only thing HJ proponents have to hang their hat on is "James, the Lord's brother". And HJ proponents must admit the controversy surrounding that phrase.

HJ proponents cannot hang their hat on "James, the Lord's brother" because in the very Pauline Corpus Jesus was NOT from EARTH but the LORD from heaven.

Corinthians 15:47
The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

We KNOW that the Pauline LORD Jesus was NOT EARTHY but FROM HEAVEN.

Plus, Christian writers who mentioned Galatians 1.19 ADMITTED that the Apostle James was NOT the brother of the LORD from heaven.


Chrysostom's Commentary on Galatians 1.19
But as he considered that he had a share in the august titles of the Apostles, he exalts himself by honoring James; and this he does by calling him the Lord's brother, although he was not by birth His brother, but only so reputed.

layflingythingy said:
In the end, we cannot know if there was an HJ. I am beginning to have serious doubts an HJ existed but will state we can't know either way.

That is precisely why the HJ argument was always DEAD out the water. The HJ argument was introduced WITHOUT the supporting historical data.

One cannot argue for an historical Jesus WITHOUT knowledge of the supporting historical data.

We KNOW that Jesus of Nazareth was described as a Resurrecting, Ascending,Transfiguring, Water Walking Son of a God born Ghost and God from the beginning.

It can be easily argued that Jesus was a figure of mythology UNTIL, UNTIL, UNTIL historical data is found.

There is a massive abundance of evidence to support the argument that Jesus was a figure of mythology and ZERO to support historicity.
 
You have completely forgotten that Paleographers EXAMINE EVERY SINGLE WORD, EVERY SINGLE LETTER, EVERY WORDING, EVERY LINE, and EVERY THING WRITTEN ON THE MANUSCRIPT.

You have presented another HOAX [another practical Joke].
I think it's you adding "wording" to the list of things palaeographers do, that is the practical joke. Great stuff!
 
Actually no. gM, even without the forged long ending, is fiction. It is not possible to tease out any "historical core".

About the only thing HJ proponents have to hang their hat on is "James, the Lord's brother". And HJ proponents must admit the controversy surrounding that phrase.

In the end, we cannot know if there was an HJ. I am beginning to have serious doubts an HJ existed but will state we can't know either way.



I agree;- those few words in Paul's letter are probably the strongest evidence that any HJ case has.

People might decide to believe in a HJ for reasons that are not actually derived from the written evidence (though there is no other "evidence" except for what was written). But that's really a matter of placing one's faith in the religious faith and un-evidenced beliefs of 1st century religious fanatics, all of whom were certain that Jesus was a multiply miraculous supernatural figure.

But here are some of the problems with that remark in Paul's letter "save James, the lords brother" -


1. It is by no means clear that Paul meant anything other than a "brother" in belief. Because Paul very often used the terms "brother", "brothers", brethren", sister", "sisters", but almost always only to mean brothers and sister in religious faith.

2. Those particular 5 words " ... save James, the Lords brother", were mentioned once in that one half-sentence, and never again repeated anywhere in any of the letters. Never again was there any mention of anyone being the actual brother of Jesus, or even of anyone ever having met Jesus at all.

3. That same James was supposed to have written his own gospel. But in that gospel he makes no claim even to have ever met Jesus, let alone been his actual "brother".

4. It is far from clear that those few words were ever originally written by "Paul". The form of that sentence suggests the words may be an addition by a later copyist. To explain that -

- that sentence would have been complete anyway without any mention of the name James. I.e., the sentence says "Other apostles saw I none" ... but then as if by afterthought the writer adds "save James" ... and then as if in another afterthought for the benefit of anyone who did not know who "James" was, he adds "the lords brother".

E.g. as if writing it like this - "Other apostles saw I none ... oh, except that is for James (I forgot about him) ... he is the lords brother by the way (in case you did not know)".

That's exactly the sort of way in which copyist alterations were often added, i.e. as extra explanatory words.

5. Copyist alterations of that sort were apparently (according to bible scholars), common. So it would hardly be a surprise to find a clarification like that was something that had been added over the centuries.

6. Out of 13 letters once all thought to have been written by Paul himself, 6 or more are now thought to have been written by someone else entirely. That clearly raises doubts as to who actually wrote any of the letters under the name "Paul".


Just as a further comment on 2 above, where Paul is supposed to have met the very brother of Jesus - only a few years before that meeting with James, a vision of Jesus had completely changed Paul's life, so that from that moment on, Paul did nothing else except preach Jesus to everyone and anyone all day long every day. This is a Jesus who Paul himself had never known, but who has now become the most important thing in his life and his only reason for living. And then, he meets "James, the lords brother", and apparently he does not ask James a single thing about Jesus. And James apparently tells Paul nothing about Jesus. In fact none of them discuss Jesus at all!

That might not be surprising if Paul only regarded James as a "brother" in the faith. But it would be unbelievably amazing if Paul thought he was meeting the very brother of the Lord and Son of God himself.

All that said - of course it’s possible that Paul did meet someone (James) who claimed to be the very brother of Jesus. But in that case it’s very strange that neither Paul nor James nor anyone else ever described knowing or meeting Jesus at all. E.g. virtually no human details of Jesus are given anywhere in any of the 13 Pauline letters. Instead, practically everything that Paul ever says about Jesus is very obviously theological. Even the 2 or 3 times when Paul does appear to mention some human act by Jesus, iirc he always adds that it is known “according to scripture”.

We might also add that even after all of that, the extant copyist versions of Paul’s letters have apparently all been found, not anywhere near Judea where these events were supposed to have taken place, but from people apparently writing in Egypt!
 
dejudge said:
You have completely forgotten that Paleographers EXAMINE EVERY SINGLE WORD, EVERY SINGLE LETTER, EVERY WORDING, EVERY LINE, and EVERY THING WRITTEN ON THE MANUSCRIPT.

You have presented another HOAX [another practical Joke].

I think it's you adding "wording" to the list of things palaeographers do, that is the practical joke. Great stuff!

Paleographers must examine the "wording" since they actually examine every letter, every word and every line of every manuscript that they attempt to date.

Paleographers do not look at one verse or one word to date a manuscript but examine the entire "wording" of the manuscript.

For example, the mention of Aretas in 2nd Corinthians is NOT evidence that any letter under the Pauline Corpus was composed c 50-60 CE especially when you admit the Pauline Corpus is NOT from a unitary source.

Plus, it can be seen that there are variant versions of the Pauline Corpus which included the Epistle to the Hebrews so it cannot be assumed that letters of the Pauline Corpus were copied from manuscripts dated c 50-60CE.

The first Apologetic writer to mention the Epistle Hebrews was a late 2nd-early 3rd century writing attributed to Tertullian--Not even "Against Heresies" mentioned the Epistle Hebrews which was believed to have been written by Paul.

The hand-written Papyri 46 contain some of the letters under the name of Paul and Hebrews [some chapters, verses and letters are missing] and are dated to c 175-225 CE and there is no evidence whatsoever that it was copied from manuscripts composed c 50-60 CE.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_46.

It is also known that Christian believers corrupted and remodeled stories of Jesus so it is virtually impossible to show that any letter in Papyri 46 still contain the integrity of the letter from which it was copied.

The long gMark in the 5th century Alexandrinus Codex and the short gMark in the 4th century Sinaiticus Codex are perfect examples of forgery or false attribution where the integrity of the Jesus story was corrupted and remodeled yet attributed to the same author.

It must also be noted that even in Acts of the Apostles there is NO statement of letters to Churches by Paul up to c 61-62 CE or at least 2 years AFTER Festus was governor of Judea.

Acts of the Apostles mentions a character called Saul/Paul about 150 times preaching and teaching in multiple locations including Corinth, Rome, Ephesus, Philippi and Thessalonica but never admitted Paul wrote letters to Churches up to 2 years after he arrived in Rome c61-62 CE.

Also, writings attributed to mid-late 2nd century Christian and Non Christian writers show NO awareness of Paul and the Pauline Corpus--NOT even a ten word phrase from the Pauline Corpus is acknowledged.

Based on Acts of the Apostles and the abundance of evidence from antiquity the ENTIRE Pauline Corpus was composed NO earlier than c 180 CE or after the writing of Celsus' "True Discourse".
 
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... We might also add that even after all of that, the extant copyist versions of Paul’s letters have apparently all been found, not anywhere near Judea where these events were supposed to have taken place, but from people apparently writing in Egypt!
This is true of almost all papyrus manuscripts. Can you guess why? This is utterly ridiculous, as I have pointed out before.
A wealth of papyrus documents from the Graeco-Roman era have come to light on the daily lives of ancient people in Egypt, including their love letters and marriage contracts, tax and bank accounts, commodity lists, birth records, divorce cases, temple offerings, and most other conceivable types of memoranda, whether personal, financial, or religious. Since the 1890s, masses of papyrus writings in Greek, Coptic, demotic, and Arabic have been unearthed in Graeco-Roman settlements in the Fayum near the Nile delta. In terms of sheer quantity, these documentary papyri have been accumulating much faster than the best scholarly efforts to keep pace. The same Fayum archaeological deposits have produced important lost texts of literary and religious works.
http://www.athenapub.com/egypap1.htm

Can you explain these copious finds? Most ancient bankers, lovers, divorcés, temple priests, etc happened to live in Egypt? Or papyrus (native to Egypt) preserves itself longer in the extremely dry climate prevalent there?
 
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This is true of almost all papyrus manuscripts. Can you guess why? This is utterly ridiculous, as I have pointed out before. http://www.athenapub.com/egypap1.htm

Can you explain these copious finds? Most ancient bankers, lovers, divorcés, temple priests, etc happened to live in Egypt? Or papyrus (native to Egypt) preserves itself longer in the extremely dry climate prevalent there?



Sure I can. And it definitely does not follow that such papyrus manuscripts were originally written in Judea. It says nothing at all about any such manuscripts ever being written in Judea. All it says is that the only known writing appears to have been done in Egypt!

As everyone knows, the remains of over 900 Dead Sea scrolls have been found in precisely that tiny location close to Jerusalem. And most of those scrolls probably date from 100-200 years or more before any gospels or letters of the NT.

Most of those Scrolls were apparently written on parchment rather than papyrus. But presumably there would have been nothing to stop biblical writers in that same region writing on papyrus if they had wanted to (though some of the surviving DSS are apparently on papyrus anyway).

All that is being said about it is that it's suspicious that apparently "all" of the gospels and letters seem to have been found in Egypt, and not anywhere else (and certainly not anywhere near the lands of Jesus).

But you apparently missed all of the point of that post listing why that reference to "James, the lords brother" is not convincing. And instead you just decided to comment only on a final passing remark saying it’s suspicious that “all” the biblical writing appears to have been found Egypt (it’s the same misguided complaint you have made scores of times before).
 
Sure I can. And it definitely does not follow that such papyrus manuscripts were originally written in Judea. It says nothing at all about any such manuscripts ever being written in Judea. All it says is that the only known writing appears to have been done in Egypt!
Writing is known when it is preserved. Papyrus is preserved easily in Egypt. That writing done in Judaea has almost all crumbled away. The writing done in Egypt less so.

The vast bulk of ancient Roman bank accounts are, I believe, found in Egypt. Not because there were more banks there than in Italy, but because in Italy papyrus crumbles away. Almost nothing of it has been preserved since ancient times. But in Egypt is has survived in abundance. This differential survival accounts for the pattern of finds.
 
Writing is known when it is preserved. Papyrus is preserved easily in Egypt. That writing done in Judaea has almost all crumbled away. The writing done in Egypt less so.

The vast bulk of ancient Roman bank accounts are, I believe, found in Egypt. Not because there were more banks there than in Italy, but because in Italy papyrus crumbles away. Almost nothing of it has been preserved since ancient times. But in Egypt is has survived in abundance. This differential survival accounts for the pattern of finds.

Add to that the fact that Judea was devastated by several wars which destroyed the cities and any records that might have been there. Except of course for the DSS, which may not all be as old as IanS thinks.
(my bold)
http://www.preteristarchive.com/BibleStudies/DeadSeaScrolls/4Q171_pesher_psalms.html
G.A. Rodley said:
...
The handwriting of this piece is a Herodian semiformal (Cross 1961, note 134; Strugnell 1970, p 211), a fact that is omitted in the Tucson report. The handwriting of all the pesharim is Herodian, that is, a class of handwriting used from 30 BCE to 70 CE.

This finding agrees with one possible interpretation of the indirect datings given for the Teacher in the Damascus Document (CD). They are not overt, and their interpretation has been disputed, but when the usages of the Scrolls are applied consistently, they may be seen to mean that the Teacher began his work in 26 CE and died about 30 CE. The reasons in brief summary are as follows:

The wording of CD 1:5-11, concerning "the Period of Wrath, 390 years for his giving them into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon" is more correctly and consistently seen as a prediction of the length of the Roman occupation of Judea, the figure of 390 years being drawn from Ezekiel 4:5, treated as a prophecy in the habitual Qumran manner. In the pesharim it is asserted that "Babylon" of the Old Testament is an equivalent for Rome, a view found also in the New Testament, where "Babylon" is used as code for Rome (1 Pet 5:13, Rev 18). On this understanding, the ruler of Rome is being referred to by the writer of CD in a disguised way through a pseudonym, for political reasons. The usual translation of the phrase following "390 years" is "after his giving them", but it should be "for his giving them", consistently with the normal meaning of the preposition. The Roman occupation of Judea, an event that could well be called "the Period of Wrath", took place in 6 CE (see further below). Since, according to the text, the Teacher came 20 years after the Period of Wrath, he began working in 26 CE.

The writer of CD 20:13-15 calculates that the death of the Teacher occurred about 40 years before a certain destruction of enemies. The destruction would result from a Visitation, an event expected in the near future. The Visitation is described in CD 19:10-16 using the language of the first fall of Jerusalem (Ezek 9:4). The passage may be understood as referring to another fall of Jerusalem, very shortly expected at the time of the writer. Jerusalem did fall in 70 CE; hence, on this interpretation, the Teacher died about 30 CE. (See Thiering 1979). (Use of Radiocarbon Dating)
...

So it isn't necessarily the case that these things date from 100 BCE, some of them at least appear to be from the 1st century CE.
 
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