Near Death and Out of Body Experiences

zengirl said:
they were told it by guides or counselors, non-physical beings.....
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No, they weren't.


Unless you're talking about Machine Elves, in which case Pineal gland DMT release could possibly be what your otherworldly spirit guides actually are.

This phenomenon could also be what Whitley Strieber assumes to be Alien contact (as touched upon earlier in this thread).


However, we're still talking chemical rather than paranormal, internal rather than external.

The human mind is very powerful, and very good at fooling itself.
 
Ape of Good Hope said:
No, they weren't.


Unless you're talking about Machine Elves, in which case Pineal gland DMT release could possibly be what your otherworldly spirit guides actually are.

This phenomenon could also be what Whitley Strieber assumes to be Alien contact (as touched upon earlier in this thread).


However, we're still talking chemical rather than paranormal, internal rather than external.

The human mind is very powerful, and very good at fooling itself.
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......and how do you know they weren't guides...were you there?
 
zengirl said:
......and how do you know they weren't guides...were you there?
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Without objective evidence for the existence of non physical beings the default position is that they do not exist.

Burdon of proof remains on the claimants.
 
zengirl said:
......and how do you know they weren't guides...were you there?
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No, because there's no such thing.

You know when Harry Potter thinks he's being saved by his dad's Patronus charm when the dementors are attacking him by the lake in the woods, and later on he realises its actually his own Patronus charm, and it's actually him saving himself?

That's it, right there. :)


(I'm hoping a fantasy fiction analogy will sugar the pill)
 
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Pixel42 said:
If there is a plausible mundane explanation for the described experience then there is no need to reach for a supernatural one.
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Exactly. That is the whole thread summed up in one sentence. Zengirl, why will you not even consider all the rational explanations for the phenomena? Why do you insist that there is something supernatural going on, when everything you have posited can be explained by mundane (yet really interesting) causes? What is it about supernatural explanations that make them more compelling than mundane ones? Why would you accept someone's unsupported assertion of a non-science explanation, yet you won't even give the simple explanations half a second's thought? You do realise this is an extreme example of double standards?
 
Ape of Good Hope said:
No, because there's no such thing.

You know when Harry Potter thinks he's being saved by his dad's petronus charm when the dementors are attacking him by the lake in the woods, and later on he realises its actually his own petronus charm, and it's actually him saving himself?

That's it, right there. :)


(I'm hoping a fantasy fiction analogy will sugar the pill)
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how do you know there is no such thing?
 
MikeG said:
Exactly. That is the whole thread summed up in one sentence. Zengirl, why will you not even consider all the rational explanations for the phenomena? Why do you insist that there is something supernatural going on, when everything you have posited can be explained by mundane (yet really interesting) causes? What is it about supernatural explanations that make them more compelling than mundane ones? Why would you accept someone's unsupported assertion of a non-science explanation, yet you won't even give the simple explanations half a second's thought? You do realise this is an extreme example of double standards?
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sorry for accepting a non-science explanation....I am not a fundamentalist science fan and do not worship at the altar of ''I am a scientist and know what is real and what is not real".......
 
zengirl said:
they were out of body and met these guides....explain...
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They were deep inside their consciousness and met a version of themselves; a chemical echo wrapped inside a brain burp.


zengirl said:
how do you know there is no such thing?
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How do you know there is? What is up? Why is brown?

etc, etc...


This is a game that we could play forever.

Unfortunately for you though, you have nothing to back up your assertions, and we have really rather a lot to back ours up.

You may not like it, but there it is.
 
zengirl said:
sorry for accepting a non-science explanation....I am not a fundamentalist science fan and do not worship at the altar of ''I am a scientist and know what is real and what is not real".......
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That a fine strawman you have created. No such POV exists. You are rallying against an imaginary standpoint.
 
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