Near Death and Out of Body Experiences

zengirl said:
Actually those who travel out of body on a regular basis say life on Earth pales in comparison to the amazing dimensions and beings they have seen and met....not superstition....reality...
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Of course they would. If they didn't no one would pay them to speak, buy their books, and pay for seminars.

If john Edwards told everyone their relatives were burning in hell people would stop going to his shows.

If braco the gazer said his stare would cause your bowels to vacate no one would pay for his seminars.

If OBE's experienced a hell scape nightmare realm no one would buy their books.

No one is ever the reincarnation of roger the shrubber or goerge the prolific masterbater.

All this new age superstition is predicated on the notion that your mundane boring life is actually just on the cusp of an amazing revelation, that there is more knowledge for you, that you are super duper special and if if you buy this book, read this mantra, attend this event you will be able to escape your life and realize your specialness.

What is sad is that the people who fall for this will never know just how amazing and special their life is right here in reality, for free.
 
Biscuit said:
All this new age superstition is predicated on the notion that your mundane boring life is actually just on the cusp of an amazing revelation, that there is more knowledge for you, that you are super duper special and if if you buy this book, read this mantra, attend this event you will be able to escape your life and realize your specialness.

What is sad is that the people who fall for this will never know just how amazing and special their life is right here in reality, for free.
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But if you read the book and BELIEVE, then you get at least some of the benefits of being a super duper special. You get to feel like you are part of some special cosmic thing. Your daydreams are portals to the world of King Arthur. I kind of see it a bit like LARPing+. There can be downsides, of course, like people thinking you're an idiot.
 
zengirl said:
Robert Monroe has provided a general description of what people traveling out of body will experience....from the inner rings of existence that surround the Earth to the outer rings and various beings that inhabit them. Many people who have traveled out of body have verified them....
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And the rational person would say that he has conditioned his followers to report back what he says they will experience. It's group think.

Get ten strangers from ten different cultures with no connection to Monroe or each other and no knowledge of his claims and see what they come up with.
 
Biscuit said:
And the rational person would say that he has conditioned his followers to report back what he says they will experience. It's group think.

Get ten strangers from ten different cultures with no connection to Monroe or each other and no knowledge of his claims and see what they come up with.
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That's because they haven't been trained properly. Hence them falling into error. If they read the book, and attend the seminar, they'll see Monroe's inner ring.
 
zengirl said:
Not true....humans are more than a brain and a body ...I have been out of body and know it...
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There are two possible explanations for NDEs and OBEs: (1) they are genuine experiences, or (2) they are dreams or hallucinations. Everything we know about how the brain works tells us that consciousness can only be generated by (and located in) a working brain, and that brains easily and frequently produce dreams/hallucinations. So we don't need to consider the more fanciful explanation unless there is objective evidence for it, eg information being obtained whilst out of body which is otherwise unobtainable (with a hit rate better than expected for intelligent guesswork). There have been several attempts to obtain such objective evidence, all of which have failed. So the less fanciful explanation remains the most likely one.
 
Pixel42 said:
There are two possible explanations for NDEs and OBEs: (1) they are genuine experiences, or (2) they are dreams or hallucinations. Everything we know about how the brain works tells us that consciousness can only be generated by (and located in) a working brain, and that brains easily and frequently produce dreams/hallucinations. So we don't need to consider the more fanciful explanation unless there is objective evidence for it, eg information being obtained whilst out of body which is otherwise unobtainable (with a hit rate better than expected for intelligent guesswork). There have been several attempts to obtain such objective evidence, all of which have failed. So the less fanciful explanation remains the most likely one.
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But how are people supposed to feel special if it's not fanciful?
 
zengirl said:
Actually those who travel out of body on a regular basis say life on Earth pales in comparison to the amazing dimensions and beings they have seen and met....not superstition....reality...
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Fantasy is such a beautiful thing, if you need it as a crutch.
 
Pixel42 said:
There are two possible explanations for NDEs and OBEs: (1) they are genuine experiences, or (2) they are dreams or hallucinations. Everything we know about how the brain works tells us that consciousness can only be generated by (and located in) a working brain, and that brains easily and frequently produce dreams/hallucinations. So we don't need to consider the more fanciful explanation unless there is objective evidence for it, eg information being obtained whilst out of body which is otherwise unobtainable (with a hit rate better than expected for intelligent guesswork). There have been several attempts to obtain such objective evidence, all of which have failed. So the less fanciful explanation remains the most likely one.
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It would be really funny to advertise a new age seminar on NDEs and OBE's, sell tickets, rent a hall, get all the people seated, dim the lights, then project this onto a screen.
 
Biscuit said:
It would be really funny to advertise a new age seminar on NDEs and OBE's, sell tickets, rent a hall, get all the people seated, dim the lights, then project this onto a screen.
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However, if you tell them what they want to hear and show them what they want to see, you could do it multiple times and cash in ....
 
We could sell stuff to zengirl. Probably the same product, with some variation in the woo ascribed, over and over again.
 
Zengirl,
I've read up on NDEs, and I'm convinced there is nothing to them. Even the strongest proponents of them being paranormal experiences are forced to concede that the same sort of experience can be induced by strong drugs. You even conceded that, but then resorted to the typical ploy of saying: "Yes...but..." and then coming up with nonsensical assertions of how the two things can be differentiated, by claiming that the 'true' NDE has been shown to predict future events for people etc. Well, that sort of thing can be tested, fortunately; it is not the nebulous concept that you can claim is unapproachable by science. And, in fact, many have tried to demonstrate objective evidence of this sort, and all have failed miserably. So, simply put, until you can come up with one iota of objective evidence, everything you say in this thread will just be wishful thinking. It will get the skeptics here riled up and the thread will go on for eons...if that is your goal--congratulations!
But if you want to convince anyone, or make some meaningful addition to this topic (which has been beaten to death already in other multiple threads)--then you have to try harder.
 
zengirl said:
..some might say your existence is a hallucination...you don't see the big picture...
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Robin Hood told me "the big picture is - there is no big picture!" He's got a kind of Matrixey turn of phrase, don't you think?
 
verified obe------ "Transformation" by Whitley Strieber---he tells of visiting a friend who lives far away while out of body--------"On the night of March 14, 1988, I was talking to writer
Barbara Clayman when I realized that she could give a certain
man a type of information that he appeared to me to
need very badly. I realized that I had to go to Barbara on
the nonphysical level in order to prepare her for her encounter
with this individual. I told her nothing of my thoughts,
and concluded our conversation lest I even subliminally reveal
my plan to her.
At four-thirty in the morning I found myself at her bedside.
She lives about a thousand miles from New York.-------------I projected my voice into Barbara's ear. I do not hear
myself when I do this. It is a form of thought. My experience
is that it sounds to the listener like a small speaker or
radio in his or her ear. I said, "It's me, Whitley. Barbara,
it's Whitley. " Her eyes flew open. A flush of fear went
through her and she appeared to me to start yelling . This
startled me and I told her rather frantically to quiet down. I
am a leaf in the wind at moments like that, and if her husband
woke up, I would not be able to maintain my presence.
Barbara then became silent and I felt myself give her the
material that she needed about the man, who is involved in
making a policy decision of fundamental importance.-----------------The next evening Barbara called. She left a message that
it was "important. " I did not allow myself even to hope
that she had remembered our meeting.
To my everlasting delight, when I returned her call I
found her full of amazement. She had remembered our encounter
vividly and in detail, right down to the words I had
"said" to her."
 
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