LDS II: The Mormons

[dudalb]

While you were gone, did you find any evidence for horses, steel, wheat and barley in Americca prior to Columbus and after the American extinction of the horse?

You can add the compass being around circa 700 BC.........

 

[halleyscomet]

You can add the compass being around circa 700 BC.........

I'm inclined to let the compass slide, as it was a magical, one-off object that also had a divine dry-erase board surface.

 

[Giordano]

http://wordtreefoundation.github.io/thelatewar/

This is REALLY cool. Researchers have found a book that was a MAJOR source for the Book of Mormon. The article even has partial chart listing some sample parallels between the two books.





I HIGHLY recommend the whole article, as they explore a number of ways that they demonstrated that "The Late War Between the United States and Great Britain" was heavily used by Smith in composing The Book of Mormon.

Maybe God used "The Late War Between the United States and Great Britain" to dictate to Smith? The Old Testament suggests that "He" can be very repetitive if "He" doesn't speak from a written script.

 

[abaddon]

I don't recall. Did we ever get sr44's position of janadele's claims for a hollow earth? Seems to me sr44 dodged those.

 

[asydhouse]

I think there's been some talking at cross purposes going on in this thread. I don't think anyone has denied that it's possible to enjoy and be enriched by fiction; the point is that a mature adult remains aware that it is fiction. But the LDS church insists that the work of fiction (to put if kindly; obvious clumsy fraud is a more accurate description) at the heart of their religion is actually factual. This is what mystifies non Mormons, and makes us keep probing away to try to understand how anyone could ever believe that.

Mainstream Christianity is not as puzzling because at least in that case the stories are set in a society we know actually existed, not one we can be sure did not exist. If a bunch of Tolkien fans started insisting that Middle Earth was a real place and the events described in the books were actual historical events I would regard them with equal bewilderment.

my ability to enjoy the stories would be severely impacted, nay, completely destroyed!

 

[halleyscomet]

I don't recall. Did we ever get sr44's position of janadele's claims for a hollow earth? Seems to me sr44 dodged those.

Given how bat guano crazy Janadele's theories about the Hollow Earth were, and the fact the theory seems to be a fringe idea with, at best, a couple hundred Mormon adherents, I'd say SkyRider44 did well to steer clear of Janadele's Hollow Earth(tm) nonsense.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27080&start=60

http://www.ldslastdays.com/default.aspx?page=talk_thingslost.htm

 

[halleyscomet]

Sooooo, this book exists.

When Crazy Comes to Call: Fun Tips for Getting rid of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses

(Hotlinked to the image amazon uses for hotlink ads for the book)

 

[Olowkow]

Pulling the cabal's strings is richly satisfying. Here, Myriad obligingly provides a demonstration of choreographed lockstep.

Seems trolling the heathens got just a wee bit boring for our resident Mormon. I'm genuinely pleased that his fantasies of toying with a few total strangers that he views as a "cabal" on an internet forum have been so rewarding and "richly satisfying" for him. I'm sure he would be welcomed back any time to pull a few strings, if that is what gives him so much pleasure. Certainly no one here seemed to mind assisting him extensively to understand his own religion a little better, and I believe he learned a little about personal relationships and sexuality as a bonus.

Sooooo, this book exists.

When Crazy Comes to Call: Fun Tips for Getting rid of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses

[qimg]http://ws-na.amazon-adsystem.com/widgets/q?_encoding=UTF8&ASIN=B00GLGZ0Q6&Format=_SL110_&ID=AsinImage&MarketPlace=US&ServiceVersion=20070822&WS=1&tag=buckwhea-20[/qimg]

(Hotlinked to the image amazon uses for hotlink ads for the book)

$.99 --too pricy, I ordered the sample for my Kindle.

 

[Wolrab]

See you all at the next cabal meeting in Jackson "Garden of Eden" County, Missouri! I'm bringing the coffee and cigarettes!

 

[Craig4]

I'm feeling cheated. A crew of four Mormons came into my apartment complex and but they didn't knock on my door. Sigh. I'm sure they would have enjoyed our conversation.

 

[Pacal]

Pulling the cabal's strings is richly satisfying. Here, Myriad obligingly provides a demonstration of choreographed lockstep.

Thank you for the admission that you were essentially doing little more than trolling. I trust the satisfaction was intense.

That would explain your continual evasions; your continual ignoring of pertinent data presented by posters here that contradicted your beliefs.

Of course you signally and spectacularly failed to provide much more than a tiny miniscule morsel of evidence for your beliefs much less prove them correct but then it seems that wasn't your goal was it?

It appears your main purpose was solely to get a rise in other people and that purpose you find / found "richly satisfying".

 

[Marcus]

I'm feeling cheated. A crew of four Mormons came into my apartment complex and but they didn't knock on my door. Sigh. I'm sure they would have enjoyed our conversation.

I think Randfan would do an admirable job of engaging the Mormon door knockers, transcript please.

 

[Craig4]

I think Randfan would do an admirable job of engaging the Mormon door knockers, transcript please.

I've got some game in that department too.

 

[Marcus]

I've got some game in that department too.

I do like reading the stories, I just don't have the patience to engage them myself. I politely tell them I don't have the time, and I don't believe in Sky Daddy anyway. While they are trying to parse the last bit I shut the door.

 

[Pup]

Pulling the cabal's strings is richly satisfying. Here, Myriad obligingly provides a demonstration of choreographed lockstep.

I was trying to decide, is that what Jesus would do? Mormons aren't big on the WWJD rings and stuff, but they're certainly taught to follow Jesus as an example and one equivalent slogan they have is "choose the right." Is trolling "right"?

It occurred to me that it probably was what Jesus would do. Jesus had a trolling side to his character too. That story where he was drawing in the dirt, blowing off people with a question, seems to be similar to Skyrider44's tactics, ignoring questions, making people re-ask them. Except the step he's missing is looking up, giving a devastating answer, then going back to ignoring.

John 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

 

[RandFan]

I think Randfan would do an admirable job of engaging the Mormon door knockers, transcript please.

I have a deep fondness for Mormon missionaries. Most of them that I've known genuinely care deeply for others. There is something to a monastic lifestyle and singleness of purpose that changes a person. I would not have fully understood it had I not lived it.

Missionaries are taught to avoid people who have no interest in being receptive to their message. When I was a missionary I sought out people who wanted to hear my message and I avoided debates. However, I did have some very interesting discussions that in fact did devolve into debates and once I was privileged to have been given a lesson in religious history by a professor who had a PhD in theology. He was extremely kind and not confrontational at all. He listened to our lesson, asked questions and in a disarming fashion gave us an excellent lecture.

If I were to engage with Mormon missionaries in philosophical discussion I'd like to do as the professor did but I suspect that I would fail because I have internal conflict with the organization that they represent and I don't want to shift that conflict to them. It is the same with friends and family.

When missionaries knock on my door I greet them warmly. Inquire where they are from. I inform them that I served a mission and we often swap war stories. I have invited them in for dinner or sodas and we discuss hunting, fishing, farming, hiking or anything else we have in common which is usually a lot. At some point the question of why I'm no longer Mormon typically comes up. I don't want to discuss it with them and I tell them that.

That's it.

 

[Marcus]

You're never tempted to (kindly) discuss with them, say, the many errors in the BoM? It just seems like you are in a good position to do so, being an ex-Mormon yourself.

 

[RandFan]

You're never tempted to (kindly) discuss with them, say, the many errors in the BoM? It just seems like you are in a good position to do so, being an ex-Mormon yourself.

No, I'm not so tempted. It's like belonging to a fraternal order. I have something in common with them. I know what its like to give up everything you have including a cherished and restored 1967 Camaro, dating, etc., to live a monastic life.

I like to debate the BoM on social media and I would be more than willing to talk to anyone who asked me for my opinion. However, when I see missionaries I simply do not see them as opponents or annoying sales people but rather brothers in arms, even though I know that they are propagating nonsense. Just one of those flukes of the human condition.

 

[Craig4]

I never approach a missionary first. However, once they engage me they become fair game. If they don't want to talk about their religion, they shouldn't come up to me and talk about their religion.

 

[RandFan]

I never approach a missionary first. However, once they engage me they become fair game. If they don't want to talk about their religion, they shouldn't come up to me and talk about their religion.

Agreed 100%

FWIW: I've been asked by others what is the best strategy to talking to missionaries about the obvious sham Mormonism is. First off, and this is simply my opinion, but I wish people would avoid the desire to be coy or answer the door naked or engage in some other degrading act. I get it I really do. I was once met at the door by an attractive and well endowed young woman wearing only a sheer see through top that left nothing to the imagination. Nothing was even said. We just turned and left. The world could use a little more kindness and respect even to annoying door to door sales people (which is how I see missionaries).

You will not likely find someone who is more resistant to argument than a missionary. The mind of a missionary is probably a lot like the mind of any member of a hard core cult. Everything proves to the missionary that what he or she believes is correct. The more you sacrifice for an idea the more you have to lose if that idea is shown wrong. The more someone pushes against your beliefs the more you push back. For a missionary the idea that they are wrong would make them a fool. A person doesn't give up two years of his or her life to volunteer if they had not already investigated and sincerely believed that they held the truth. A missionary isn't in the field to learn truth. A missionary is there to save people. It's like trying to argue with a firefighter about politics while the firefighter is rushing into a burning building.

Be kind. Missionaries are by and large actually very nice people who only want to help people, most would help you move if you asked them. Even if you told them that you would not take their lessons.

Just my two cents.