Heeeeeeere's Obamacare!

[Kestrel]

Logger, it is possible to see what the exchange offers without going to the exchange. Just plug the numbers into this Kaiser tool and it will tell you what you qualify for:

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

 

[Trakar]

In the broadest sense, sure. But the implementation has been .

very Republican-like, unfortunately. (ie, government doesn't work,...when we run it!)

 

[logger]

It's not an ideology. I'm curious, if you found out that lots of children who have never had health insurance are now getting check ups and preventive medicine would that change your mind?

Yes, I concede this is one of those "think of the children" arguments but this is one time I think it is appropriate. Why should children suffer poor health when they can do nothing about it? We pool our resources to pay for the military. Why can we not pool resources to ensure that all Americans are healthy?

Most importantly, why is it that nations that provide public health care have the best economic and health outcomes?

You're not understanding me, its fine for the poor to go get it. I can afford mine without holding my hand out to the government. We are going to lose our country because people want something for free, when its not free, never has been and never will be.

 

[logger]

Logger, it is possible to see what the exchange offers without going to the exchange. Just plug the numbers into this Kaiser tool and it will tell you what you qualify for:

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

Thanks for that, I don't qualify for help. Incidentally their silver plan is much more than I'm paying now.

 

[ehcks]

You're not understanding me, its fine for the poor to go get it. I can afford mine without holding my hand out to the government. We are going to lose our country because people want something for free, when its not free, never has been and never will be.

How is it free if you either have to buy it from a private company or you pay taxes into the fund that you can't get refunded or deduct from your income taxes?

 

[Blue Mountain]

You're not understanding me, its fine for the poor to go get it. I can afford mine without holding my hand out to the government. We are going to lose our country because people want something for free, when its not free, never has been and never will be.

Yup, just like Canada and the UK have gone to hell in a handbasket since they introduced single-payer.

Oh, wait ...

 

[RandFan]

You're not understanding me, its fine for the poor to go get it. I can afford mine without holding my hand out to the government. We are going to lose our country because people want something for free, when its not free, never has been and never will be.

It's the poor that are getting it. So chill out. No one claims that the money doesn't come from somewhere. That's such a hackneyed cliche. People don't want something for free. That's why they go to work and work damn hard.

 

[jimbob]

It's the poor that are getting it. So chill out. No one claims that the money doesn't come from somewhere. That's such a hackneyed cliche. People don't want something for free. That's why they go to work and work damn hard.

Yup, just like Canada and the UK have gone to hell in a handbasket since they introduced single-payer.

Oh, wait ...

Indeed... It just happens that (for example) a smaller proportion of my taxes go towards healthcare that I can access than for American taxpayers and for healthcare that they generally can't access (being taxpayers and needing additional insurance).

See my sig.

 

[RandFan]

Indeed... It just happens that (for example) a smaller proportion of my taxes go towards healthcare that I can access than for American taxpayers and for healthcare that they generally can't access (being taxpayers and needing additional insurance).

See my sig.

When Bill Clinton asked Hillary to look into health care I was against it. I didn't want my nation to have the nightmare health care system that people in England and Canada had. It took me more than a decade to be disabused of that notion.

I wonder how long it will take for Americans to realize that the horror stories of "socialized" medicine are simply an attempt to appeal to people's fear of the unknown.

 

[jimbob]

When Bill Clinton asked Hillary to look into health care I was against it. I didn't want my nation to have the nightmare health care system that people in England and Canada had. It took me more than a decade to be disabused of that notion.

I wonder how long it will take for Americans to realize that the horror stories of "socialized" medicine are simply an attempt to appeal to people's fear of the unknown.

And of course, private medicine is available in the UK (about 17% of the spending is).

 

[The_Animus]

No, I don't believe in them. I also wouldn't quality for a subsidy and wouldn't accept it if we did.

We're part of a catastrophic sharing plan now.

I figured as much. The exchanges are just a marketplace to shop for insurance you don't have to take a subsidy. Sorry to say but your high premium jump is your own fault because you were too lazy and ideologically biased to actually check your available options. This is also why we are skeptical everytime someone claims a huge premium increase, because 8/10 times when we get more information we find the person didn't know what was even in their old plan or didn't bother checking conpetitors pricing.

 

[RandFan]

And of course, private medicine is available in the UK (about 17% of the spending is).

Americans salivate to the word "socialized" like Pavlov's dog hearing the dinner bell. Just for different reasons. It's actually more like foaming at the mouth.

 

[logger]

Americans salivate to the word "socialized" like Pavlov's dog hearing the dinner bell. Just for different reasons. It's actually more like foaming at the mouth.

You're correct and for good reason, we want to be free, were not interested in being part of the collective. We're not interested in being "workers" for the few ruling elite.

You're okay with it and that's fine by me, maybe you can't survive on your own, which is fine too. Sometimes everyone needs some help, it just shouldn't be a lifestyle.

 

[jimbob]

Even if "socialised " costs less in taxes and provides full cover?

 

[logger]

Even if "socialised " costs less in taxes and provides full cover?

Is it logical to think a system run by the government is going to be more efficient and cost less?

 

[Border Reiver]

Yes.

Private national defence (extensive reliance on mercenaries), was unsound. Their discipline was unsound, and there was a distressing tendency to prolong wars for bigger pay checks.

Privatized tax collection tended to result in massive corruption. Making it a government operation actually resulted in greater funds making it to gov't coffers with a lower burden being placed on taxpayers.

Average cost of providing education to a student in Canada - $12,000
Cost of a private school in Canada with a comparable curriculum - $15,000

 

[jimbob]

Is it logical to think a system run by the government is going to be more efficient and cost less?

Yes.

Private national defence (extensive reliance on mercenaries), was unsound. Their discipline was unsound, and there was a distressing tendency to prolong wars for bigger pay checks.

Privatized tax collection tended to result in massive corruption. Making it a government operation actually resulted in greater funds making it to gov't coffers with a lower burden being placed on taxpayers.

Average cost of providing education to a student in Canada - $12,000
Cost of a private school in Canada with a comparable curriculum - $15,000

Indeed, and there have been papers comparing the admin costs of the US and Canadian systems (the tldr version is that the US system has higher admin costs)

Also one could just look at the figures in my sig.

 

[KDLarsen]

Americans salivate to the word "socialized" like Pavlov's dog hearing the dinner bell. Just for different reasons. It's actually more like foaming at the mouth.

Ain't that the truth...

 

[asydhouse]

You're correct and for good reason, we want to be free, were not interested in being part of the collective. We're not interested in being "workers" for the few ruling elite.
You're okay with it and that's fine by me, maybe you can't survive on your own, which is fine too. Sometimes everyone needs some help, it just shouldn't be a lifestyle.

And yet, that sounds like the situation now!

How ironic.

 

[RandFan]

¹You're correct and for good reason, we want to be free, were not interested in being part of the collective. We're not interested in being "workers" for the few ruling elite.

²You're okay with it and that's fine by me, maybe you can't survive on your own, which is fine too. Sometimes everyone needs some help, it just shouldn't be a lifestyle.

1. It's not a collective. It's called a society. From the first settlements in America to modern times Americans have almost all lived in communities where we could cooperate, trade, etc. We are so enamored of the idea that we have constructed a hierarchy of independent states, counties, cities, towns and other local municipalities. Being part of a society does not make one a slave. That's just rhetoric.
2. This is a straw man. However, if you can survive on your own then move to the wilderness. I grew up on a farm. I know how to live off the land. I can hunt, fish, clean and dress game. I know which wild plants I can eat. I know how to grow crops. I was a scout and have taken sever survival courses. I can fare living on my own better than most people.

Cooperation, helping your neighbor, feeding the poor, volunteering, charity, etc., these do not make us slaves. They make us empathetic human beings. We have the capacity for empathy because we are a social species and it is in the best interest of us all to see to the health and well-being of the most vulnerable.