The Electric Comet theory

[tusenfem]

I'd like to discuss just one piece of evidence if we can?

Yeah, that'd be awesome David, perhaps you can, since Tusenfem has trouble recalling, tell me about the OSIRIS image's targeting of the "jet" locations on 67P?

I'm sure they bracket the shots, so send the stack thru and we'll do some citizen science, looking at "bunnies" type science and we'll all have chinwag at the OSIRIS photos.

Just a start to move forward me thinks

I highly doubt you will get the OSIRIS data for "citizen science".
Only what they will publish in the soon-to-appear Science journal will be available. OSIRIS images from the deep flybys will first be available when the propriatory period (6 to 12 months) has expired.

 

[The Man]

This 'Electric Comet' theory seems to be a bit of a Cheese Shop

Selling Cheese seems to be the forte. Though, it seems they are waiting for a particular brand of cheese to sell before making the business model. So the current fromage of data must be tainted and unworthy of analysis. Can cheesy confirmation bias be any more self-evident?

 

[tusenfem]

Good evening, Sol88,
(my emphases)

Do you know what format the science images - from OSIRIS - are in? I would guess that they're digital - so they're not "photos" - and that they have a dynamic range far greater than that in JPEGs; perhaps 12- or 16-bit (cf 8-bit for JPEGs). If so, then as citizen scientists, we'll need to be able to work with the full-data originals, not the lossy JPEGs, right?

What image processing software/apps do you have, that are likely to be able to do that?

I have used several, but for my own work I prefer to download FITS files with the image/science data, and process them using my own Python-based code (of course, I have no idea whether the OSIRIS image files are FITS or not).

It is most likely FITS files, but I cannot state that for certain.

 

[Belz...]

This 'Electric Comet' theory seems to be a bit of a Cheese Shop

Shops have an actual product to sell.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Shops have an actual product to sell.

Not Monty Pythons Cheese Shop. that's the point. Claim to have cheese but when asked for a specific cheese it's a different story.

 

[Haig]

The image that Haig is talking about is the first color image from Rosetta. Rosetta's OSIRIS camera instrument Narrow Angle Camera does have

This may be combinations of three of the blue, green, orange and red filters.

67P is still looking like a chunk of Mars and the mainstream theory hypothesis of comets has morphed into a mainstream version of the electric comet hypothesis

So ...

Dirty Snowball comet >> Snowy Dirtball comet >> all the way to the latest electric comet knock off >> Cometary Charge Exchange Aurorae comet

There are more details here Electric Comet of the mainstream copycat version priceless

So comets are charged bodies just like all the other solar system bodies interacting in an electromagnetic plasma system.

That also explains the mainstream density calculation errors, not only in comets, but ALL charged objects.

Kepler telescope spots 'Styrofoam' planet

The newly found planets are all less dense than expected based on models of how giant planets coalesce from gas.

One, called Kepler 7b, is about as dense as polystyrene. It is about 1.5 times as wide as Jupiter, but only about a tenth as dense, making it one of the most diffuse planets yet found.

Where the Sun and Ice Worlds Meet

Researchers understand the extremes of solar wind interactions (called the bounding states) with planets, comets and other bodies, but no one knows what kind of interaction is present at Pluto. A flyby observation of comet Borrelly in 2001 recorded a "strong" solar wind interaction with a body that was evolving lots of material into space. In this strong bounding state, the solar wind is reduced to a very low speed near the nucleus of the comet because of strong mass-loading of the wind. Cometary neutrals become ionized (electrically charged) and picked up. The charged cometary material becomes entrained in the flow, resulting in what is commonly seen as a comet's ion tail.

"As the solar wind flows through the region surrounding a comet, the material coming off it adds mass to the local solar wind," says David McComas, SWAP principal investigator and a senior executive director at Southwest Research Institute (SwRI). "The principals of conservation of energy and momentum come into effect, causing the solar wind to slow down and cometary material to speed up - similar to what happens when one vehicle rear-ends another."

The opposite of a comet's strong interaction is the weak bounding state, or a Venus-like interaction. In this extreme, a planet's relatively strong gravity keeps the atmosphere close to the planet. Because the solar wind can't easily penetrate the layer of ionized gas that surrounds Venus at the top of its atmosphere, this creates a different type of tail behind the planet - one that is not mass loaded, but induced.

"It's a very different sort of configuration - like when you drag a fork through a serving of spaghetti," McComas says. "The spaghetti doesn't pass between the tines, but rather drapes around the fork, creating a 'tail' behind it."

 

[Haig]

Suspect Rosetta and 67P have a lot more shocks in store for mainstream

"The general findings are that, at least on the surface, comets are mostly dark, they have 'hot spots' relative to the temperature in space which promotes an overall warm temperature for the comet body. This does not bode well for ices as has been assessed. They're surface is 'dehydrated', rocky, and very dusty. It's possible that the hotspots noted on Rosetta might be the culprit causing the 'crater'-like effect. Areas that appear to be smooth have turned out to be dust and there are even dunes."

Why Haven't We Seen Rosetta's Comet in Color Until Now?

 

[erwinl]

Suspect Rosetta and 67P have a lot more shocks in store for mainstream

"The general findings are that, at least on the surface, comets are mostly dark, they have 'hot spots' relative to the temperature in space which promotes an overall warm temperature for the comet body. This does not bode well for ices as has been assessed. They're surface is 'dehydrated', rocky, and very dusty. It's possible that the hotspots noted on Rosetta might be the culprit causing the 'crater'-like effect. Areas that appear to be smooth have turned out to be dust and there are even dunes."

Why Haven't We Seen Rosetta's Comet in Color Until Now?

That quote, doesn't appear in the link you gave.
Besides it does explain how the comet would look if one could have looked from the probe itself (riding piggy-back as it were).

 

[tusenfem]

Suspect Rosetta and 67P have a lot more shocks in store for mainstream

"The general findings are that, at least on the surface, comets are mostly dark, they have 'hot spots' relative to the temperature in space which promotes an overall warm temperature for the comet body. This does not bode well for ices as has been assessed. They're surface is 'dehydrated', rocky, and very dusty. It's possible that the hotspots noted on Rosetta might be the culprit causing the 'crater'-like effect. Areas that appear to be smooth have turned out to be dust and there are even dunes."

Why Haven't We Seen Rosetta's Comet in Color Until Now?

Interestingly, my desktop background is a colour image of part of 67P/CG, which was released on the Rosetta blog at the end of September (I think).
Of course with this new beautiful image of 67P/CG we have to keep in mind that this is not what one would see if one would be sitting on top of Rosetta, the intensity must be stretched very very much.

I am not sure what you want to say with the (source-less quote).

I am hoping for a lot of surprises, like the singing comet. I am also hoping for meetings with old friends like mirror mode waves.

 

[tusenfem]

67P is still looking like a chunk of Mars to me

corrected that for you

There are more details here Electric Comet of the mainstream copycat version priceless

Ehhhh, a 7 year old thread from BAUT (now cosmoquest) regarding electric comets, between mainstreamers (me, captain swoop, van rijn, nereid, etc.) and EU proponents (vanderL, solar, starboy, upriver, etc.).
What exactly is copycat here? You may want to express your complaints a little more clearly. You will see that in 7 years EC has still not made any progress, whatsoever.

So comets are charged bodies just like all the other solar system bodies interacting in an electromagnetic plasma system.

All moving bodies in a plasma will be somehow charged, it is just the extent of charging which is taken to ridiculous levels by the EC community.

That is why, e.g. we put ASPOC instruments on spacecraft!

That also explains the mainstream density calculation errors, not only in comets, but ALL charged objects.

Ehhhhh, NO

You do know that with its average density Jupiter would almost float in our oceans? (1.33 g/cm³)

 

[Ziggurat]

Jean Tate, it appears you've got the entire sequence of good science backwards. Your apparent formula, asking math to race ahead of evidence, could only perpetuate a huge theoretical mistakes. If I give you Don Scott's estimate of the potential of the Sun—"probably in the order of several billion volts" (his words)—you will not have anything to work with to quantify a comet's electrical behavior. Are you aware of why that is so? Meaningful quantification does not arise out of thin air.

Billions of volts is indeed meaningful, and that value doesn't even originate with Scott, it originates with Juergens. I'm surprised you don't know this. And the meaning is that the theory is obviously nonsense: you cannot have billions of volts on the sun. I've done the calculations. Such a large voltage would cause the surface of the sun to explode.

You might object that I've done the calculation using the simplest voltage profile (the sun being the only charge, ground being at infinity) and that the "real" profile should be much more complex. And it's true that this is the way I did the calculation, because it's simple. But here's the thing: any other profile just makes the problem worse. Any other profile increases the strength of the electric field, since there's less space over which to distribute the voltage change. Any other profile will increase the propensity for the sun to explode. So my simplifying assumption actually makes it easier to pass the test, not harder, and yet it still fails.

Your billions of volts are indeed meaningful, but the meaning is that the theory is wrong. Very, very wrong.

 

[Belz...]

Not Monty Pythons Cheese Shop. that's the point. Claim to have cheese but when asked for a specific cheese it's a different story.

Ah, sorry. I missed the reference.

 

[Ziggurat]

Really? An "assertion that Kirchhoff’s law being invalid" in what is purported to be an electrical universe?

Kirchoff's law of thermal radiation, not his circuit law. It's a little more subtle, but violating it would still be more significant than they comprehend.

 

[Haig]

I am hoping for a lot of surprises, like the singing comet.

Do you think the singing comet and the Sun ringing like a bell are in the same electromagnetic band ?

 

[Haig]

Our variable Electric Sun doesn't just affect Electric Comet 67P it affects ALL the planets. Gezz that huge coronal hole is set to slam Earth.

Powerful Coronal Hole, Spaceweather | S0 News December 3, 2014

 

[tusenfem]

Do you think the singing comet and the Sun ringing like a bell are in the same electromagnetic band ?

Hardly, the Sun ringing as a bell are acoustic body modes, whereas the singing comet are electromagnetic plasma waves.

 

[tusenfem]

Our variable Electric Sun doesn't just affect Electric Comet 67P it affects ALL the planets. Gezz that huge coronal hole is set to slam Earth.

Powerful Coronal Hole, Spaceweather | S0 News December 3, 2014

And yet another useless boobtube link.

haig can you not go search for some real estimates for the water production of an electric comet? We have measured what comes off, what better way to show the sovereignty of the EC model?

 

[JeanTate]

Thanks Reality Check.

If my posts still exist then they may be in an "Electric comet numbers" thread.
I probably used a variation on my user name Reality Check/RealityCheck/etc.

Electric Comet numbers is indeed a thread there, with the OP dated Tue Aug 11, 2009.

Had I not been actively involved in this ISF thread for the last couple of weeks, I would have been astonished at the non-answers to your simple questions! However, that thread is a good illustration of why Haig posts the way he does; by the apparent standards of that forum, Haig's posts here are quite normal.

But I did learn something new (or not):

Regarding density, there is a known anomaly in capacitors, where a charged capacitor weighs less than when it's not charged. A piezoelectric or electrostatic potential might affect the influence of gravity, hence the velocity, thus altering the calculated mass. Therefore, those comets with a low apparent mass, could be more dense than what has been calculated. Not saying that this is the case, just that the potential exists for this kind of unaccounted for anomaly.

 

[The Man]

Kirchoff's law of thermal radiation, not his circuit law. It's a little more subtle, but violating it would still be more significant than they comprehend.

Yep, I known, both have their basis in conservation of energy. You mentioned the thermal radiation law before and the inferred violation of that basis for both. So what's left, other than free energy (as you noted), a purported electrical universe without one of the fundamental concepts of the transmission of electrical charge, current in equals current out.

 

[David Talbott]

What would electric comet proponents due with the funding, aside from laboratory experiments?

First, we would integrate the questions posed by space exploration with the questions posed by plasma laboratory experiments. The overriding, most pressing issue would be whether, since the beginning of the space age, we've been asking the wrong questions. The "electrical" answer would not just be good news, it would add more driving energy and funding to space explorations than any of the younger space scientists have seen in their lifetimes.

Is a comet discharging electrically? As the space sciences take that question seriously (as IS happening), the immediate shift in focus will be just the beginning. One comet indisputably exhibiting electric discharge eroding its surface could well trigger a change of mind across all of the disciplines concerned with solar system formation and evolution. Who says A must say B. The optimism within the Electric Universe community today comes from the knowledge that, in terms of facts now established, the scales have already tipped, even if official acknowledgments take a bit of time to catch up.

Later today, I'll begin a summary of comet facts and reasons for this optimism.