The Electric Comet theory

[Haig]

Shockwave findings set to rewrite scientific theories

"Using the Very Large Telescope (VLT) in Chile, we measured both the linear and circular polarisation of an afterglow with high accuracy. Much to our surprise we clearly detected circular polarisation, while theories predicted we should not see any at all. We believe that the most likely explanation is that the exact way in which electrons are accelerated within the afterglow shockwave is different from what we always thought. It is a very nice example of observations ruling out most of the existing theoretical predictions - exactly why observes like me are in this game!

"We are the first team to realise the importance of trying these technically difficult circular polarisation measurements at visible wavelengths - most people simply assumed it wouldn't be worthwhile doing as theory predicted levels too low to be detectable. The detection of far stronger circular polarisation than expected makes it a particularly surprising result.

"We believe that this detection means that most of the current theories of how electrons get accelerated in afterglows need re-examining."

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Shockwave_findings_set_to_rewrite_scientific_theories_999.html

Good news for the EU/PC view as the Thunderbolts video explains … Gamma-Ray Burst Shatters Old Theories | Space News

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcEQJudOYvg

 

[Haig]

Interesting that mainstream are surprised by each new discovery but EU / PC folk are NOT

Is the message getting through?

ELECTRIC COMET = ELECTRIC SUN = ELECTRIC UNIVERSE / PLASMA COSMOLOGY

Lightning in the Wind

Electric Universe theories propose that plasma discharge behavior is a better model for solar activity than most consensus opinions would like to accept. Experiments using a positively charged sphere show that a plasma torus forms above its equator. Charged plasma bridges the torus, coupling the sphere’s middle and lower latitudes, consistent with the principle of “anode tufting,” a plasma discharge effect expected from a positively charged electric Sun.

Sunspot filaments, seen clearly in sunspot penumbrae, indicate that they are rapidly rotating charge vortices. Electric discharges in plasma form rope-like, hollow tendrils, so looking down into a sunspot will reveal its rotating discharge columns in profile. Since they are funnels of plasma, their centers are darker, where convection cells would appear darker at their edges.

Since the Sun is the most powerful electrical entity in the Solar System, it stands to reason that its influence will extend outward as far as its heliospheric boundary. That influence, as previous Pictures of the Day argue, instigates many electrical phenomena on Earth.

 

[Ziggurat]

So I take it were ALL agreed mainstream are playing catch up to the Electric Universe / Plasma Cosmology crowd but just don't like to admit it?

So I take it you're dropping even a pretense to addressing the criticisms of EU "theories", and have now reverted to simply link-spamming.

 

[Haig]

So I take it you're dropping even a pretense to addressing the criticisms of EU "theories", and have now reverted to simply link-spamming.

No, not really.

Just trying to show the huge surge of evidence in favour of ...

ELECTRIC COMET = ELECTRIC SUN = ELECTRIC UNIVERSE / PLASMA COSMOLOGY


Normal service will be resumed but I think I've made my point

Earthquakes and the Solar System

1) Magnetic Polarity Data: http://wso.stanford.edu/Polar.html -- it has stopped updating since 11/23/2013.
2) Jupiter opposes the sun now, and Venus conjoins Mercury on January 8th. Anyone see that coronal hole coming in now?
3) There are some things you cannot un-see. If indeed the IMF and coronal holes are quake factors as I suggested for 2 years, then the underlying magnetics of the sun MUST be relevant to seismicity. I THOUGHT I was going to find an answer to the baffling quake droughts! ...I'm still in shock at how perfectly this matches.

 

[Belz...]

So I take it were ALL agreed mainstream are playing catch up to the Electric Universe / Plasma Cosmology crowd but just don't like to admit it?

How did you conclude this from those posts ?

In order to play catch up, mainstream physics would have to be in a position where plasma cosmology and EU were accepted. Indeed they would not be mainstream at all, so your question is puzzling.

More confirmation we live in an Electric Universe

Serious question: do you believe that you have the necessary knowledge and expertise to make this determination ?

 

[Belz...]

Just saying Belz... I didn't need math to understand the concept.

Indeed, but you need maths to prove that it is correct.

 

[Belz...]

Most Undeniable Evidence of the Electric Universe to Date

This raises another interesting question: in your view, given that science usually goes with the things that work (see: computers, moon landing, etc.), why do you think mainstream scientists would ignore EU if it were true ?

Your mainstream dogma struggles with this

Do you believe that labeling your opposition "dogma" somehow constitutes an argument ? If anything, your behaviour in this thread and others on this topic has been far less pliable to evidence and reason than that of your opponents.

The discovery of thousands of star systems wildly different from our own has demolished ideas about how planets form. Astronomers are searching for a whole new theory.

How do you believe this puts mainstream physics in jeopardy ?

the Electric Universe view …

...which is ?

 

[JeanTate]

Haig, I'm not sure what you really think you have done, in the last quite-a-few posts of yours, but to me it looked remarkably like a Gish Gallop (I think you're familiar with the term, right?).

In short, you know (so it seems) you cannot address any of the substantive points made, concerning the electric comet idea (the topic of this thread, remember?), so you decided to go waaaaaaay off-topic.

So I take it were ALL agreed mainstream are playing catch up to the Electric Universe / Plasma Cosmology crowd but just don't like to admit it?

Huh?

If you want to discuss "the Electric Universe / Plasma Cosmology", why not post in one of the several (well, at least one) threads specifically devoted to that topic? Otherwise, I don't even understand what you wrote.

My dogma indeed

Lets look at the latest surprise and see if you guys can solve it?

VLT telescope reveals mysterious alignment of quasars with the Universe’s large-scale structure
http://www.gizmag.com/eso-vlt-quasar-alignment-large-scale-structure/34879/

Scientists Observe Cluster of Quasars Aligned Perfectly Together
http://perfscience.com/content/214667-scientists-observe-cluster-quasars-aligned-perfectly-together

Alignment of quasar polarizations with large-scale structures⋆ PDF
http://www.eso.org/public/archives/releases/sciencepapers/eso1438/eso1438a.pdf

<snip>

This is something which I know a good deal more about than the electric comet idea, and would be more than happy to discuss it.

But not in a thread devoted to the electric comet ideas.

(If there's already a thread on it, why not head on over there? If not, why not start one, and I'll be more than happy to join in the discussion).

 

[JeanTate]

<snip>

Is the message getting through?

ELECTRIC COMET = ELECTRIC SUN = ELECTRIC UNIVERSE / PLASMA COSMOLOGY

<snip>

Well, we already know that a key foundation of the electric comet ideas is the Juergens model of the electric Sun, and we know that that is (wildly) inconsistent with relevant observations (to wit, the Sun has not exploded).

If you insist that electric comet ideas are equal to electric Sun ones - which seems quite at odds with the material you've provided links to - then perhaps you'd like to recommend that this thread by merged with the (very long) electric Sun one?

Otherwise, what's the point of the pseudo-equation?

 

[Matthew Cline]

I see why you were reluctant to bring this up.

So Electric Comet theory is nonsense but mainstream Magnetic Comet theory is good !!!

Can you separate electricity and magnetism ? Which comes first? Can you have one without the other .... I think NOT.

IIRC, the "electric comet" theory, the coma and tail of a comet are formed by electric discharge on the nucleus releasing oxygen, which combines with hydrogen from the solar wind to form water. While you might not be able to separate electricity from magnetism, you certainly can separate "electric discharges releasing oxygen" from "magnetic draping".

 

[Matthew Cline]

The actual issue I have is that the numbers don't add up, even in simple back of the envelope calculation for a trial.

There are not detected charge differentials sufficient to make comet glow electrically, bodies that should show coma, under the EC don't , etc...

I remember at least one EU proponent saying something like: maybe Maxwell's equations that physicists use are just a limiting case of the actual laws of electromagnetism, like Newtonian gravity is a limiting case of relativity. So they could hire grad and post-grad physics students to try to come up with a new theory of electromagnetism which has Maxwell's equations as its limiting case.

 

[BrianH]

I remember at least one EU proponent saying something like: maybe Maxwell's equations that physicists use are just a limiting case of the actual laws of electromagnetism, like Newtonian gravity is a limiting case of relativity. So they could hire grad and post-grad physics students to try to come up with a new theory of electromagnetism which has Maxwell's equations as its limiting case.

Something like QED? Probably way too "mainstream" for that crowd. It does have Electro in the name though, so it has that going for it.

 

[dasmiller]

Just saying Belz... I didn't need math to understand the concept.

This morning, your estimate of the voltage difference in Io's vicinity was off by a factor of 25,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

This suggests that you can't trust your gut about the relative strengths of the various forces out there. You're not alone; nobody's gut is terribly reliable about such things. That's why the math matters.

 

[Sol88]

This morning, your estimate of the voltage difference in Io's vicinity was off by a factor of 25,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

This suggests that you can't trust your gut about the relative strengths of the various forces out there. You're not alone; nobody's gut is terribly reliable about such things. That's why the math matters.

Like I said, my bad

Multiplied instead of divide, as Belz..., pointed out.

Still doesn't make the concept wrong, conductor/magnetic field moving, plasma 2 trillion watts of electricity

Io, Luna, Earth, Venus, Mercury to name a few are quite well studied now and it's full of more or less Electric Universe bits n bobs.

But your intent on sublimating ICE's on a loosely packed dirtysnowy dust ball, well...it's not looking good

 

[dasmiller]

Like I said, my bad

Multiplied instead of divide, as Belz..., pointed out.

And misread the source material by a factor of a million.

Still doesn't make the concept wrong, conductor/magnetic field moving, plasma 2 trillion watts of electricity

True, since you haven't provided any other calculations, that error did not raise any new concerns about EU (speaking only for myself).

Io, Luna, Earth, Venus, Mercury to name a few are quite well studied now and it's full of more or less Electric Universe bits n bobs.

Mainstream science does not deny that there are charged particles and electrical effects in space.

But your intent on sublimating ICE's on a loosely packed dirtysnowy dust ball, well...it's not looking good

My point, and I'm sticking by it, is that you can't trust your judgement about what forces are causing which effects. Without the supporting math, all we have are "it kinda looks like X," and we'll all disagree about which X it looks like.

 

[Haig]

Haig, I'm not sure what you really think you have done, in the last quite-a-few posts of yours, but to me it looked remarkably like a Gish Gallop (I think you're familiar with the term, right?).

In short, you know (so it seems) you cannot address any of the substantive points made, concerning the electric comet idea (the topic of this thread, remember?), so you decided to go waaaaaaay off-topic.


Huh?

If you want to discuss "the Electric Universe / Plasma Cosmology", why not post in one of the several (well, at least one) threads specifically devoted to that topic? Otherwise, I don't even understand what you wrote.


This is something which I know a good deal more about than the electric comet idea, and would be more than happy to discuss it.

But not in a thread devoted to the electric comet ideas.

(If there's already a thread on it, why not head on over there? If not, why not start one, and I'll be more than happy to join in the discussion).

Actually JeanTate the list I posted ARE all connected and NOT really a bunch of small idea's.

Why do this on a thread about the ELECTRIC COMET

Well Jean you seem to be a smart one ... well work it out ...

The original Space Heretic talked about about it and made successful predictions from it (something that we can't seem to do today - cue the dark arts) and it was the original ELECTRIC COMET idea way before mainstream had a clue (a lot got their inspiration from him but won't/didn't admit it) and was the spark that started the Thunderbolts Project.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

I have a conductor moving thru a magnetic field, the power generated is say 5 million amps, how do I work out the Voltage?

Ohm, Watt and Ampere, fine 19th century scientists, identified and quantified the various parameters of electricity. They used math(s) so you may be at a personal disadvantage, but I suggest googling "ohms law wheel."

In the meantime I look forward to reading the rest of the thread and seeing the responses to this "not even wrong" question.

{edit to add}
Yep.

 

[Belz...]

Like I said, my bad

Multiplied instead of divide, as Belz..., pointed out.

Still doesn't make the concept wrong, conductor/magnetic field moving, plasma 2 trillion watts of electricity

Io, Luna, Earth, Venus, Mercury to name a few are quite well studied now and it's full of more or less Electric Universe bits n bobs.

But your intent on sublimating ICE's on a loosely packed dirtysnowy dust ball, well...it's not looking good

Another question: do you believe it rational to support an idea (EU) that has not produced any useful research, applicable science or correct prediction in 50 years ?

 

[JeanTate]

Good morning Haig,

Actually JeanTate the list I posted ARE all connected and NOT really a bunch of small idea's.

If you say so; I'll take your word for it.

But please, can we stick to the electric comet in this thread? If you really want to show how those things are all connected, please do so in a different thread, OK?

Why do this on a thread about the ELECTRIC COMET

Well Jean you seem to be a smart one ... well work it out ...

The original Space Heretic talked about about it and made successful predictions from it (something that we can't seem to do today - cue the dark arts) and it was the original ELECTRIC COMET idea way before mainstream had a clue (a lot got their inspiration from him but won't/didn't admit it) and was the spark that started the Thunderbolts Project.

Sorry, I don't have a clue what you're trying to say.

If it's directly relevant to the electric comet ideas, would you please explain, in some detail? If not, would you please find a thread that it pertinent, and post there?

Back to the electric comet then: can you please provide me with references/links/etc to what you consider to be up-to-date, reliable material on how one can calculate/estimate the difference in electric potential a comet will experience, as it moves along its orbit about the Sun? It doesn't have to be in great detail - a BOTE (back of the envelope) will do - but it does, of course, have to be quantitative. And if you cannot find any such, or do not know of any such, would you please say so?

Thank you in advance.

 

[tusenfem]

typical eu/es/ec behaviour.
anything mianstream that deals with electromagnetics and plasma is used as a confirmation of eu/es/ec whether or not it fits.
eu/es/ec always has all the answers, is never surprised (what a boring life) but ........
never ever produces any real papers that we can discuss qualitatively and quantitatively, never not even the production of water.
will be fun when we claim that 67p is actually charged, just like the moon, which would actually be expected from mainstream theory.