Continuation Part 11: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[anglolawyer]

I've been thinking again about Stefanoni's phone call caught on video the evening of November 3. She is demanding that the semen be tested immediately. But we have not yet figured out what semen she is asking about. Speculation that it was the stain on the pillow under Meredith doesn't fit very well because of the timing: The pillow was uncovered very early prior to 02:30 that am. And there is no indication in subsequent photos that the stain had been sampled.

Another possibility is the tissues in the yard downstairs. At the time of her call these had not been photographically documented but it seems to be her style to pick things up and examine them before they are documented. While the tissue has an issue that could be semen, it is more probable that it'snot.

An alternative that fits better is the tissues from the toilet from which Rudy's DNA was identified. The collection of this was just prior to 14:00 on the video. Stefononi's call at 18:15 leaves plenty of time for the sample to have been already rushed to the Rome lab.

Isn't she talking about the vaginal and anal swabs?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Haven't heard anything, but consensus here seems to be no news is good news.

Now back to the point at hand, do you think Quintavale (and Curatolo) were paid for coming forward as witnesses?

Do you find their testimonies credible?

Given the repetitive nature of this thread, I doubt that this most recent iteration regarding Quintavale and Curatolo will provide anything new or meaningful. I remain interested in the future, anything related to the next phase of the judicial process.

I doubt there will be any news relating to the application until after the 3rd level hearing and even then it will depend on the verdict.

 

[Kauffer]

Incredible witnesses

Haven't heard anything, but consensus here seems to be no news is good news.

Now back to the point at hand, do you think Quintavale (and Curatolo) were paid for coming forward as witnesses?

Do you find their testimonies credible?

No!

We have eye, ear and nose witnesses operating in this case. The testimony of Curatalo and Quintavale is absurd and does not survive rigorous analysis. It's an incredibly desperate prosecutor that puts these two forward. But then you've got Pee lady (thanks for that one, Diocletus) and the weirdo, Kokomani. It's all rather sad, isn't it? This is hick town justice. It's the modern equivalent of the practice little over a hundred years ago of pulling some incorrigible drunk out of a saloon, telling him what to say, swiftly hanging the guy he said it about and returning him to the saloon with 50 cents in his pocket.

 

[Kauffer]

Timing

Given the repetitive nature of this thread, I doubt that this most recent iteration regarding Quintavale and Curatolo will provide anything new or meaningful. I remain interested in the future, anything related to the next phase of the judicial process.

I doubt there will be any news relating to the application until after the 3rd level hearing and even then it will depend on the verdict.

Don't think so. Pretty sure there'll be a decision on admissibility before March, and I'm pretty sure what it will be. Pretty sure the verdict will depend on that decision not the other way round.

 

[tsig]

No news: All indications regarding Amanda's application is that it is still within the ECtHR system with no public announcement to date.

As you may be aware, there is a ECtHR home web site which may provide information on cases and leads to other sites:
http://www.echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=home

I couldn't find Amandas' appeal at that site, do you have a link to it?

 

[Desert Fox]

DF who killed those kids in West Memphis?

I would say that there are two possibilities -
1. There is an unknown black male known as Mr Bojangles
2. One of the fathers

 

[Diocletus]

Isn't she talking about the vaginal and anal swabs?

FYI, Dr. Lalli collected those samples and handed them over directly to Stefanoni. I guess this could have happened when Stef. got there, though.

 

[NotEvenWrong]

Read similar things about the Norfolk Four and West Memphis Three

A crucial difference in the Kercher case that often does not get mentioned, is that we actually know who the murderer is. When you have an alternate, highly likely, explanation for the murder (Rudy did it -- we know he was there. He was there in both hypotheses; lone wolf burglar commits murder, and Amanda orchestrates a pagan sex orgy with Rudy and Raf. Or manipulates Rudy and Raf to kill Meredith over rent money. You know, something retarded.) then it dramatically reduces the chance of the alternate hypothesis that a 3 way murder occurred.

At least with the Norfolk 4 and WM3 we don't have a slam dunk alternate hypothesis, so if someone believes that they probably did it they don't look insane.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

No just a moment. It's the pro-Knox activist posters who cite Sfarzo as their source, at times now and then. They cite him as a source, as a foundation to their arguments. So, if you motivate your argumentation based on the fact that the Source says that, it's obvious that the reliability of the Source may be part of the question. It's not me who decides to rely on Frank Sfarzo: if some people decide, on their own initiative, to associate themselves to sources that are questionable, this must be noted because reflects on their arguments.

This is really quite funny. Toto is a completely legitimate source, Nara is an entirely legitimate source, and the cops who have had legal issues are legitimate, yet Sfarzo as a source is completely discredited because he is a personal hothead. This logic is applied at every possible instance.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

No just a moment. It's the pro-Knox activist posters who cite Sfarzo as their source, at times now and then. They cite him as a source, as a foundation to their arguments. So, if you motivate your argumentation based on the fact that the Source says that, it's obvious that the reliability of the Source may be part of the question. It's not me who decides to rely on Frank Sfarzo: if some people decide, on their own initiative, to associate themselves to sources that are questionable, this must be noted because reflects on their arguments.

Amen. Again, look at your sources, Machiavelli. You are so biased, you cannot even apply your logic to your own evidence.

 

[Numbers]

I couldn't find Amandas' appeal at that site, do you have a link to it?

As far as I know, all applications to the ECtHR are confidential until they are released by the Court.

If you are referring to Amanda's appeal to the CSC, that is available in Italian (it's about 200 pages long) and as a summary in English.

English summary of the CSC appeal:
http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/s...supreme-court-against-conviction-in-florence/

Italian CSC appeal:
www.injusticeinperugia.org/Amanda_Knox_Appeal.pdf

 

[Desert Fox]

A crucial difference in the Kercher case that often does not get mentioned, is that we actually know who the murderer is. When you have an alternate, highly likely, explanation for the murder (Rudy did it -- we know he was there. He was there in both hypotheses; lone wolf burglar commits murder, and Amanda orchestrates a pagan sex orgy with Rudy and Raf. Or manipulates Rudy and Raf to kill Meredith over rent money. You know, something retarded.) then it dramatically reduces the chance of the alternate hypothesis that a 3 way murder occurred.

At least with the Norfolk 4 and WM3 we don't have a slam dunk alternate hypothesis, so if someone believes that they probably did it they don't look insane.

We know exactly who murdered Michelle Moore-Bosko. . . .Omar Ballard.
While there are some similarities also with the West Memphis Three, the Norfolk Four are a much closer analogy. You have the really corrupt cop (John Glenn Ford) and the sliding the black guy into the narrative involving the others even though there is no contact between them.

 

[acbytesla]

I am concerned by a comment like this, because it reflects exactly the Nencini judgement. I emailed this person on PMF before he cited me for doing so, and that left me like Clooney in Gravity.

Again, what I object to is comparing two sadistic killers like Knox & Sollecito with Pistorius. Knox in particular is in a league with Van der Sloot and and Bundy. That's the right comparison, in my opinion: dangerous people who actually enjoy hurting other people.

Norbert

There have always been morons out there. The murder of Ms. Kercher certainly is a horrible thing. Norbert doesn't know Amanda Knox, he doesn't know Raffaele. This is an ex post facto judgement. I certainly can see someone coming to this opinion if they believed that Amanda and Raffaele killed Meredith for kicks. The problem of course with this opinion is that it is based on fiction. A fiction created in the minds of people who simply have problems thinking logically and dismissing their original beliefs.

There was a time when I thought they were guilty. It lasted for about a month, then I knew that it was a farce and I had been fooled. That someone else had weaved a good story with nothing to support it. When I heard it was a satanic ritual. All I could think was bull, and then I heard it was a sex orgy gone awry. This seemed like bull to me as well, but one of my closest friends thought this is what happened, but I felt I should keep an open mind. Then I started reading the evidence and then it was a joke.

 

[Desert Fox]

There have always been morons out there. The murder of Ms. Kercher certainly is a horrible thing. Norbert doesn't know Amanda Knox, he doesn't know Raffaele. This is an ex post facto judgement. I certainly can see someone coming to this opinion if they believe that Amanda and Raffaele killed Meredith for kicks. The problem of course with this opinion is that it is based on fiction. A fiction created in the minds of people who simply have problems thinking logically and dismissing their original beliefs.

There was a time when I thought they were guilty. It lasted for about a month, then I knew that it was a farce and I had been fooled. That someone else had weaved a good story with nothing to support it. When I heard it was a satanic ritual. All I could think was bull, and then I heard it was a sex orgy gone awry. This seemed like bull to me as well, but one of my closest friends thought this is what happened, but I felt I should keep an open mind. Then I started reading the evidence and then it was a joke.

The latest storyline is that Amanda was trying to steal Meredeth's money for drugs?

 

[tsig]

As far as I know, all applications to the ECtHR are confidential until they are released by the Court.

If you are referring to Amanda's appeal to the CSC, that is available in Italian (it's about 200 pages long) and as a summary in English.

English summary of the CSC appeal:
http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/s...supreme-court-against-conviction-in-florence/

Italian CSC appeal:
www.injusticeinperugia.org/Amanda_Knox_Appeal.pdf

I was referring to the application to the ECHR, from some of the posts here I was under the impression that some had access to it.

 

[acbytesla]

The latest storyline is that Amanda was trying to steal Meredeth's money for drugs?

This is one that Machiavelli made up and somehow weaved it's way to the narrative. Mach has even said that Amanda was trading sex for drugs. He has been saying it for years, not that he has a damn thing to support this rumor. (I mean why let that stop him?) He consistently has turned nothing into her being a drug crazed whore. I really don't want to run through that stupid theory again. Let's just say there is nothing but wild speculation based on Amanda spending a little too much money in Europe and that phone number. It is of course nonsense.. Especially when you consider that Amanda has plenty of money, her new boyfriend has even more and that 300 Euros wouldn't be worth killing anyone.

 

[NotEvenWrong]

We know exactly who murdered Michelle Moore-Bosko. . . .Omar Ballard.
While there are some similarities also with the West Memphis Three, the Norfolk Four are a much closer analogy. You have the really corrupt cop (John Glenn Ford) and the sliding the black guy into the narrative involving the others even though there is no contact between them.

You are right. Was less familiar with the Norfolk 4 case -- I didn't realize they had Ballard's DNA at the crime scene. Did the prosecution claim it was a gang rape and murder and somehow no one left their DNA at the crime scene except Ballard? HMM sounds familiar. God people are so freaking stupid.

 

[Diocletus]

I was referring to the application to the ECHR, from some of the posts here I was under the impression that some had access to it.

Well, if certain people do have it, and I'm neither admitting nor denying that, then those people would be keeping it for their own reference and enjoyment.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Peter Gill interview

Given the repetitive nature of this thread, I doubt that this most recent iteration regarding Quintavale and Curatolo will provide anything new or meaningful. I remain interested in the future, anything related to the next phase of the judicial process.

I doubt there will be any news relating to the application until after the 3rd level hearing and even then it will depend on the verdict.

CoulsdonUK,

IMO your comment does not contribute to the discussion. However, Peter Gill recently gave an interview that did. Scroll to about 19:40 into the program.

 

[Kauffer]

Well, if certain people do have it, and I'm neither admitting nor denying that, then those people would be keeping it for their own reference and enjoyment.

I can only agree with the sentiments expressed in their entirety and totality.