"Hammurabi, who feared Marduk..." and the fear of God

[TubbaBlubba]

I've generally thought that the idea of being "God-fearing" as an utmost virtue symbolizing devotion and submission was a Judeo-Christian concept (and no small amount of apologetic literature has been written to explain how "fear of God" is totally different from other types of fear), however, I recently encountered a translation of the law of Hammurabi, and indeed, the inscription describes Hammurabi as one who "feared Marduk, the patron deity of Babylon". Now, I wonder if this is merely a culturally biased or simplified translation (e.g. the original text used a word without connotations to dread or fear, something more along the lines of "paid tribute to"), or if the idea that someone ought to be "in fear of [local deity]" in order to be a virtuous and devoted adherent of that particular religion is more universal? Did the Greeks flaunt their fear of Zeus? Do Hindus dread Shiva?

The problem is that googling "fear and devotion" or "fear of God" and similar terms only brings up completely insane amounts of apologetic websites, and the relevant Wikipedia article only deals with Judeo-Christianity.

I'd be interested if anyone could shed some insight on this concept.

 

[Brainache]

I'm not sure, but I always liked this song:


SIMPLE MINDS - This Fear Of God

 

[MG1962]

never mind

 

[Soapy Sam]

I've always felt that being "god fearing" is a strange description of devotees of a god of universal love. There seemed, even as recently as my childhood in the 1950s-60s, to be a distinct shift between the Old Testament, fire and brimstone religion of the bearded elders of the kirk and the vaguely hippyish new testament love and kindness of the younger Sunday school teachers.
The fear of the gods seemed universal in any tale of ancient Greece, Rome, Egypt etc. The whole idea of sacrifice to placated divine wrath seemed fundamental.
As a youthful atheist, I rationalised thus:- Way back then, when we thought thunder was caused by some daft bastard sitting in the clouds, throwing a hammer at people, there was some rationality to keeping in HIS good books. Nowadays, we know that having your house grounded and not standing under a solitary tree is more effective than all the sacrifices ever made. And we have insurance.

So we're just not as scared any more, but being scared is a default human state and religion is largely about coping with that.
So we stopped worrying about gods and started worrying about other nonsense instead.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

While attending a Church of England school from age 4 to 11, it was explained to us kiddies that the meaning of "fear" in the English language had changed since the Bible was written and it didn't mean that we were to be scared of God. It meant . . . something different. I don't remember what that something different was specifically but it was less bad. Like being respectful.

 

[Belz...]

I do think that fearing the gods was always seen as a good thing, seeing as how they were personification of poorly-understood natural forces.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

While attending a Church of England school from age 4 to 11, it was explained to us kiddies that the meaning of "fear" in the English language had changed since the Bible was written and it didn't mean that we were to be scared of God. It meant . . . something different. I don't remember what that something different was specifically but it was less bad. Like being respectful.

This is a common explanation, but then "dread" has been used in the same way, and words meaning "fear" or "the feeling that you are in peril of" are used in many languages to describe the "respect" one is to have before God. Claims are made about the Hebrew term (yirah) translated as fear; that it can mean "reverence", but those claims, and traditions concerned with "levels" and "types" of fear, all seem to be based on the fact that it is used to describe a feeling one has about God (that causes one to be obedient). It seems rather obvious that the "fear" was originally simply a realization of the fact that God could and would punish and judge you if you did wrong. Thus, somone who "feared God" would follow the law of God to avoid retribution; hell, this is a cornerstone of some theological explanations for morality.

Ideas that the "fear of God", although a type of dread, is somehow transcendental would also be challenged by the fact that Proverbs 24:21 tells one to "fear the LORD and the king." Is the fear of the king also numinous?

It appears then that the Judeo-Christian tradition associates obediance and respect with the anticipation of punishment, judgment and retribution so strongly that "fear" becomes symbolic for "being devoted to". Again, I wonder if this appears as prominently in other religious traditions?

 

[tsig]

While attending a Church of England school from age 4 to 11, it was explained to us kiddies that the meaning of "fear" in the English language had changed since the Bible was written and it didn't mean that we were to be scared of God. It meant . . . something different. I don't remember what that something different was specifically but it was less bad. Like being respectful.

Yes, fear = awe, the emotion of wonderment taken to the uttermost limit.

 

[Leumas]

While attending a Church of England school from age 4 to 11, it was explained to us kiddies that the meaning of "fear" in the English language had changed since the Bible was written and it didn't mean that we were to be scared of God. It meant . . . something different. I don't remember what that something different was specifically but it was less bad. Like being respectful.

One way to verify this without even going to an old English dictionary or even going back to the Hebrew word is to compare the word as used in the very same KJV Bible and see how the word is used and even without knowing what the word means we can INFER what it means from the CONTEXT of the sentences it is used within.

For example take the word as used in Genesis 15:1

After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram : I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.​

Here it can be seen the YHWH is promising Abraham that he will protect him and be his shield and thus Abraham need not "fear".

What can be the meaning of this word in the context other than being afraid of danger?

Again let's look at Genesis 19:30

And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him ; for he feared to dwell in Zoar : and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.​

What possible meaning could the word "feared" have here other than to be afraid because of possible harm or loss?

Also in Genesis 21:17

And God heard the voice of the lad ; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not ; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.​

I think it is very clear that the word "fear" here is also used to mean being afraid of harm and danger.


Also Genesis 26:7

And the men of the place asked him of his wife ; and he said, She is my sister : for he feared to say, She is my wife ; lest, said he, the men of the place should kill me for Rebekah ; because she was fair to look upon.​

What other meaning is there than worrying about harm and injury (“kill me”)?


In all the above cases the Hebrew word used in the Tanakh is (yara) ירא which is “Fear”.

Finally let's see Deuteronomy 21:21

And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die; so shalt thou put away the evil from the midst of thee; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.​

Again the Hebrew word used is ירא which is translated as "fear".

What other meaning is to be inferred hear other than dread of a punishment for being an unruly son who will incur the wrath of god and will therefore be stoned to death?


Now let's look at a case that might be whitewashed by casuists but that is quite obvious even within the very same verse.... look at Exodus 20:18-20

20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
20:20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.​

A casuist might try to explain the word "fear" in the phrase "his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not" as respect or awe or love or some other claptrap apologetic .... or even that the word meant something else in old English or some other contortions of semantics.

But here we have in the very same verse the word "fear" used twice and in the Hebrew it is the very same word ירא as used in other verses where the word cannot be explained away as anything other than the worry about a threat of danger or something likely to cause harm or pain.

It is even expressly said "lest we die". The people are afraid for their lives and Moses says to them "fear not" FOR NOW because he is only showing you so that you will "fear" him later if you think about sinning.

I think it is quite clear that the word “fear” in the English of the KJV Bible means

an unpleasant emotion caused by the belief that someone or something is dangerous, likely to cause pain, or a threat​

Much like it means today and all this “fear” of god is meant to be exactly what it says.

Deuteronomy 6:25

6:13 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.
6:14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;
6:15 (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.​

Exodus 23:27

23:27 I will send my fear before thee, and will destroy all the people to whom thou shalt come, and I will make all thine enemies turn their backs unto thee.​

Deuteronomy 2:25

This day will I begin to put the dread of thee and the fear of thee upon the nations that are under the whole heaven, who shall hear report of thee, and shall tremble, and be in anguish because of thee.​

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

One way to verify this without even going to an old English dictionary or even going back to the Hebrew word is to compare the word as used in the very same KJV Bible and see how the word is used and even without knowing what the word means we can INFER what it means from the CONTEXT of the sentences it is used within.

For example take the word as used in Genesis 15:1

After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram : I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.​

Here it can be seen the YHWH is promising Abraham that he will protect him and be his shield and thus Abraham need not "fear".

What can be the meaning of this word in the context other than being afraid of danger?

Again let's look at Genesis 19:30

And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him ; for he feared to dwell in Zoar : and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.​

What possible meaning could the word "feared" have here other than to be afraid because of possible harm or loss?

Also in Genesis 21:17

And God heard the voice of the lad ; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not ; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.​

I think it is very clear that the word "fear" here is also used to mean being afraid of harm and danger.


Also Genesis 26:7

And the men of the place asked him of his wife ; and he said, She is my sister : for he feared to say, She is my wife ; lest, said he, the men of the place should kill me for Rebekah ; because she was fair to look upon.​

What other meaning is there than worrying about harm and injury (“kill me”)?


In all the above cases the Hebrew word used in the Tanakh is (yara) ירא which is “Fear”.

Finally let's see Deuteronomy 21:21

And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die; so shalt thou put away the evil from the midst of thee; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.​

Again the Hebrew word used is ירא which is translated as "fear".

What other meaning is to be inferred hear other than dread of a punishment for being an unruly son who will incur the wrath of god and will therefore be stoned to death?


Now let's look at a case that might be whitewashed by casuists but that is quite obvious even within the very same verse.... look at Exodus 20:18-20

20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
20:20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.​

A casuist might try to explain the word "fear" in the phrase "his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not" as respect or awe or love or some other claptrap apologetic .... or even that the word meant something else in old English or some other contortions of semantics.

But here we have in the very same verse the word "fear" used twice and in the Hebrew it is the very same word ירא as used in other verses where the word cannot be explained away as anything other than the worry about a threat of danger or something likely to cause harm or pain.

It is even expressly said "lest we die". The people are afraid for their lives and Moses says to them "fear not" FOR NOW because he is only showing you so that you will "fear" him later if you think about sinning.

I think it is quite clear that the word “fear” in the English of the KJV Bible means

an unpleasant emotion caused by the belief that someone or something is dangerous, likely to cause pain, or a threat​

Much like it means today and all this “fear” of god is meant to be exactly what it says.

Deuteronomy 6:25

6:13 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.
6:14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;
6:15 (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.​

Exodus 23:27

23:27 I will send my fear before thee, and will destroy all the people to whom thou shalt come, and I will make all thine enemies turn their backs unto thee.​

Deuteronomy 2:25

This day will I begin to put the dread of thee and the fear of thee upon the nations that are under the whole heaven, who shall hear report of thee, and shall tremble, and be in anguish because of thee.​

Hey. I didn't think of that when I was four nor yet when I was eleven. Somewhat later I did not really care.

 

[Leumas]

Hey. I didn't think of that when I was four nor yet when I was eleven. Somewhat later I did not really care.

See.... that's how they get you!


But seriously.... this casuistry is actually used on grownups even today, and it's not just with the word "fear" but with every other embarrassing thing or situation in the Bible.

For example slavery, where they try to tell you that the slavery of the Bible is not really slavery or that even if it were it is not as bad as other slavery.

The KJV and other translations deliberately translate the Hebrew word "eved עבד" as "servant" to lessen the impact of the divine commandments of owning slaves and treating them as less than humans.

Fortunately it never occurred to the writers of the KJV to lessen the impact of all that “fear of God” by using deliberately evasive translations. Of course this is because in the 1600s it was not something bad to threaten fear of God as it is nowadays. In fact FEAR was their bread and butter and they went around instilling as much fear as possible... and not just fear of God.

 

[Frozenwolf150]

This is a common explanation, but then "dread" has been used in the same way, and words meaning "fear" or "the feeling that you are in peril of" are used in many languages to describe the "respect" one is to have before God. Claims are made about the Hebrew term (yirah) translated as fear; that it can mean "reverence", but those claims, and traditions concerned with "levels" and "types" of fear, all seem to be based on the fact that it is used to describe a feeling one has about God (that causes one to be obedient). It seems rather obvious that the "fear" was originally simply a realization of the fact that God could and would punish and judge you if you did wrong. Thus, somone who "feared God" would follow the law of God to avoid retribution; hell, this is a cornerstone of some theological explanations for morality.

Ideas that the "fear of God", although a type of dread, is somehow transcendental would also be challenged by the fact that Proverbs 24:21 tells one to "fear the LORD and the king." Is the fear of the king also numinous?

It appears then that the Judeo-Christian tradition associates obediance and respect with the anticipation of punishment, judgment and retribution so strongly that "fear" becomes symbolic for "being devoted to". Again, I wonder if this appears as prominently in other religious traditions?

The only other religion I happen to know of where this wording appears, off the top of my head, is Islam, where "fear of God" is considered a virtue. The Quran repeatedly tells believers to fear Allah, and citations are pretty easy to find, as they're practically everywhere. Fear, in that context, holds the same exact meaning as in the Judeo-Christian tradition, which is as you describe. However, I have no idea about Hammurabi or Marduk.

I would argue that love coerced out of fear is not love at all, but duress.

 

[Correa Neto]

The Abrahamic god started as a tribal god of war.
We humans create gods largely based on our own images.
Gods mirrow rulers, real and ideal.

Across most of human history, you'd better fear your king, warlord, chieftain, whatever, or you'll be beaten, killed, locked at some dungeon, etc. But hey, your king loves his people and wants whats better for them, OK?

Pay your tributes to the king, obey him, show him how you like him or be arrested.

Pray and offer sacrifices to your god, obey and worship him or suffer the consequences of his wrath.

Same thing. Problem is we are now living in the 21^th century. Social relationships are changing at some parts of the world, people are realizing they do not have to take all sorts of BS from their rulers. Since Abrahamic gods were built over texts from societies that date back from thousands of years ago, whose social codes and ethics are no longer acceptable (sure, there are a lot of retrograde ******** around), theists have to make some pretty weird mental contortions to explain this sort of thing.

 

[Delvo]

The thing about word meanings changing (at least for some words but not others) reminds me of the people who say some parts of the Bible are literal and some are metaphorical: it leaves open the question of how to know which ones are which.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

The thing about word meanings changing (at least for some words but not others) reminds me of the people who say some parts of the Bible are literal and some are metaphorical: it leaves open the question of how to know which ones are which.

Easy. I interpret the Bible. You pervert the Holy Word of the Lord.

Told ya it was easy.

 

[Leumas]

The thing about word meanings changing (at least for some words but not others) reminds me of the people who say some parts of the Bible are literal and some are metaphorical: it leaves open the question of how to know which ones are which.

This is one method

Easy. I interpret the Bible. You pervert the Holy Word of the Lord.

The other method is:

Whatever things in the Bible that do not tally with what you can see are the facts of reality and consequently are causing you Cognitive Dissonance (CD), then those must be metaphors and allegories.

Additionally, if you do not even know what the metaphors and allegories are for or what they mean that is because they are not targeted at modern audiences and should be understood by regressing your mindset to the framework of paleo-societies from the benighted miserable ages of human preadolescence.

Furthermore, if all the above Cognitive Dissonance Assuaging Casuistries (CDAC) do not in fact alleviate your CD then remember that to really understand what the Bible says you cannot just rely on translations but you must also learn long dead paleo-languages.

If you really do not want to spend your life learning Paleo-Sociology and Paleo-Languages and Paleo-Claptrap then just take it upon faith that the foppish coxcombical sycophantic poltroons working in the services of despotic raping and pillaging brigands, Kings and Emperors knew what the Bible really says and accept their word for it.

After all look at them in the first picture below…. don’t you think they look like they know exactly what the omnipotent omnipresent omniscient omnibenevolent creator of all things was doing and saying after he slithered out from between the legs of a 13 years old girl descendant of a cowardly Babylonian Illegal Immigrant with whom HE made an indissoluble real estate contract sealed by having the wife-pimping poltroon snip off the tip of his penis along with the penises of his slaves and children and descendants for ever?

Who else is better suited than the fops below to tell us what the Bible really says except perhaps the guys in the second picture …. But I am sure it is not the guys in the third picture?

 

[JaysonR]

In answer to the op, yes, 'fearing' was a common concept across the land from the Hittites on down through your area of query (one could argue in Asia as well for at least a time, but that is a tangent).
I'll respond tomorrow with more detail if I have the chance, but it is on par with the practice of "only begotten son" and "son of god" as phrases referring to leadership prior to the employment of famed use in Christianity.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

But you have to admit that the Pope has a nice hat.



I understand Jesus wore one just like it. (His mum knitted it.)

 

[TubbaBlubba]

In answer to the op, yes, 'fearing' was a common concept across the land from the Hittites on down through your area of query (one could argue in Asia as well for at least a time, but that is a tangent).
I'll respond tomorrow with more detail if I have the chance, but it is on par with the practice of "only begotten son" and "son of god" as phrases referring to leadership prior to the employment of famed use in Christianity.

Thank you very much, that definitely makes sense. I would absolutely adore a more detailed answer as well.

 

[JaysonR]

OK, so...a more detailed explanation.

The basis for most of this region is the Canaanite pantheon and its idioms.
For a rather detailed example of what kind of connections one can find between the cultures, see this other thread I made about the titles of Jesus: The Five Venerated Titles Attributed Upon Jesus and their Idiomatic Culture.

While not specific to your query of the fearing idiom, it shows the close relation from which the later cultures borrowed, or mixed with, the Canaanite culture.

There are very strong correlations between the The Code of Hammurabi, the Code of the Nesilim (Hittite law), the Code of the Assura (Assyrian law), and the Hebrew Covenant Code.

If you trace this back and just keep chasing, then you'll eventually arrive at Phoenician as your basic "stopping" point, but that's mostly only because of that's effectively our archaeological limit (considering that the Indus Valley Script is practically illegible at this time).

For example; if you look at the Sumerian gods Anu and Enlil, you'll find that they "enslave" (more or less) the human race in ignorance and fear.

How, then, does "fear" end up working its way into being "pious"?
Well; the way this goes about is by nature of authority, ignorance and power.

For example, take the phrase, "Kingdom of God" we are all very use to in our culture.
In the original form it doesn't refer to a "kingdom" in the sense that phrase prompts in our imagination.
A more understanding rendering would be "authority", as it is referring to the ruling authority one has, not a physical object.
The phrase, "god", is a bit overly specific in most instances of the appearance as it is more generally applied as "the divine" - as a general title; not a specific name or title.

So here we have the authority of the divine.
What authority was perceived as of the divine? Moral authority; judgement of the will or the direction of humans, along with the mass abyss of things humans do not know.

Now, also keep in mind; for example, take the Hebrew culture for a moment again...Moses throws his staff down and it turns into a snake, then there's the snake that tricks Eve in the Garden of Eden - everyone's familiar with these things on this level.
Catch is, it isn't so clean...the word is nachash, and its a name for serpent.
So?
Well, the root of the word for naw-khawsh is naw-khash', and while the former generally refers to a serpent, the latter refers to divining, or delve into so as to discern, or an omen; point being, it refers to knowledge.

Now, this doesn't refer to wisdom; just knowledge.
Grasping knowledge is like grabbing a serpent; that's the image being given.
Knowledge was considered dangerous and lethal if you didn't know how to handle it; in many of these old cultures (using Hebrew as a sample case).

So we see nachash trick the gullible woman and cause harm, and we see Moses authoritatively carrying and commanding nachash as his staff from his god because the message conveyed is that he does know how to discern knowledge and wield it without causing or bringing harm.

Keep in mind, we're in an age of danger and life is no where near guaranteed and humanity hasn't learned much yet, but cultures are aware that they can discern the world around them, but they also note that doing so often times causes harm in a variety of manners.
Logically, then, it follows that discerning the knowledge of how the universe/existence/things on the planet/nature work is discovering something which already is extant, but humans simply do not know...which thereby means that one is learning something only the gods know; taking knowledge from the gods.

Doing so without wisdom of how to take that knowledge is lethal (it is perceived) and creates a fool and danger to his people.

So; when one is referring to being fearful OF the gods as pious, the reasoning is that they understand how to be respectful to these gods (whom have a ripe history of erratic behaviors and violent outbursts - even in the Hebrew account) so as to gain the knowledge without bringing about harm.

The idea of someone thinking they knew it all and could just take knowledge like the gods without respect to the gods and do as they want without consult to the gods was what produced the idiom of the "morning star", which we find in the Hebrew texts most famously.
It refers to a person being like Venus in comparison to the Sun (a god), and supplies the image whereby Venus in the morning is attempting to be the Sun, but that its attempt to be the Sun is of course futile, for no matter how bright it may shine over the other stars in the sky, it does not outshine the Sun.

Which is why every instance of its use is against someone who consults no gods and does as they wish as if they are a god; fearing none.


Hopefully this helps a bit.