Heeeeeeere's Obamacare!

[Elf Grinder 3000]

Er, isn't that how health insurance is supposed to work?

Health insurance in a free market is supposed to work as follows

an insurer guarantees to pay health coverage to an individual in exchange for payment. The payment is based on the individuals risk.

Obamacare is not health insurance, it is wealth redistribution from healthy rich people to poor sick people.

There are only 2 risk classes and ~3 age bands with subsidies to the poor in Obamacare. Health premiums for young males are going up 75% on average it goes up for healthy people of all ages to pay for the poor and sick.

If you don't understand this you don't understand insurance and you certainly don't understand how Obamacare works.

Gruber gets this, few on this site seem to get it. The people who want Obamacare are partisans and support it for ideological reasons.

 

[DavidJames]

Health insurance in a free market is supposed to work as follows

an insurer guarantees to pay health coverage to an individual in exchange for payment. The payment is based on the individuals risk.

Obamacare is not health insurance, it is wealth redistribution from healthy rich people to poor sick people.

There are only 2 risk classes and ~3 age bands with subsidies to the poor in Obamacare. Health premiums for young males are going up 75% on average it goes up for healthy people of all ages to pay for the poor and sick.

If you don't understand this you don't understand insurance and you certainly don't understand how Obamacare works.

Gruber gets this, few on this site seem to get it. The people who want Obamacare are partisans and support it for ideological reasons.

Wealth distribution. . I feel so bad for young and healthy people. The poor and sick should just die, bastards.

 

[DDWW]

Hey, if you can't trust a 53 second video as a solid distillation of a hugely complex healthcare system which affects 300,000,000 people, then what can you trust?

But it does give us a new definition of lying....... "Was not transparent!".

Used in a sentence; When President Obama said you could keep your present health care he was not being transparent.

 

[Elf Grinder 3000]

Wealth distribution. . I feel so bad for young and healthy people. The poor and sick should just die, bastards.

If you can actually dispute anything I said please do

Again it is not insurance

If you require people to pay for others health insurance it is wealth redistribution

and the people who designed the law lied intentionally as Gruber states in the video

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Health insurance in a free market is supposed to work as follows

an insurer guarantees to pay health coverage to an individual in exchange for payment. The payment is based on the individuals risk.

Obamacare is not health insurance, it is wealth redistribution from healthy rich people to poor sick people.

There are only 2 risk classes and ~3 age bands with subsidies to the poor in Obamacare. Health premiums for young males are going up 75% on average it goes up for healthy people of all ages to pay for the poor and sick.

If you don't understand this you don't understand insurance and you certainly don't understand how Obamacare works.

Gruber gets this, few on this site seem to get it. The people who want Obamacare are partisans and support it for ideological reasons.

It's still health insurance.

Under the the previous business model we were still paying for the poor anyway, but under much more adverse conditions.

What is your suggestion?

 

[Elf Grinder 3000]

It's still health insurance.

Under the the previous business model we were still paying for the poor anyway, but under much more adverse conditions.

What is your suggestion?

This isn't what we were doing under the previous system. In the previous system 30 million people were uninsured and millions paid for their own insurance in a free market.

A solutions, the solution is to remove the employer's ability to pay health care pre tax.

That would force individuals to all pay for their own health insurance which would have the effect of creating a more efficient market. This would ultimately reduce costs.

Again you don't seem to get this because you don't understand insurance

 

[Shalamar]

Wealth distribution. . I feel so bad for young and healthy people. The poor and sick should just die, bastards.

That has indeed been suggested on this site, unfortunately.

I will add: The ACA (Obamacare) is a horrible, crappy, terrible piece of legislation. And yet it is STILL better than what it replaced.

 

[ehcks]

This isn't what we were doing under the previous system. In the previous system 30 million people were uninsured and millions paid for their own insurance in a free market.

You do know that there is no public option right? That all people insured in the United States that aren't government or military families have either private insurance, or are poor enough to get medicaid? That's a fairly small number of people, 47% of which are children.

People over 65 also get medicare. People with medicaid subsidies still actually go through a private insurance company.

The market is still "free," for all the good that does.

 

[3point14]

This isn't what we were doing under the previous system. In the previous system 30 million people were uninsured and millions paid for their own insurance in a free market.

A solutions, the solution is to remove the employer's ability to pay health care pre tax.

That would force individuals to all pay for their own health insurance which would have the effect of creating a more efficient market. This would ultimately reduce costs.

Again you don't seem to get this because you don't understand insurance

for those foolish enough not to buy insurance that become very sick, do you then:

a) Leave them to die from a treatable disease

or

b) Force others to pay for their helathcare

or

c) Actually, I don't have a third option. I don't believe there is one.

 

[Shalamar]

for those foolish enough not to buy insurance that become very sick, do you then:

a) Leave them to die from a treatable disease

or

b) Force others to pay for their helathcare

or

c) Actually, I don't have a third option. I don't believe there is one.

Third Option is:

C: They go to the Hospital and are treated until they can leave (Minimum only). They receive a massive bill that they cannot pay. They go into bankruptcy, and I forced into poverty, or the hospital writes off the bill as 'Charity', while passing the costs onto everyone else.

(having people die because they cannot pay tends to make doctors and hospitals look bad)

 

[3point14]

Third Option is:

C: They go to the Hospital and are treated until they can leave (Minimum only). They receive a massive bill that they cannot pay. They go into bankruptcy, and I forced into poverty, or the hospital writes off the bill as 'Charity', while passing the costs onto everyone else.

(having people die because they cannot pay tends to make doctors and hospitals look bad)

Yeah. that's option B

 

[Fast Eddie B]

See if you can get past the source - Fox News - and focus on the video clips where Gruber twice points to the stupidity of the Americsn voter as essential to getting the ACA passed:

http://youtu.be/0_XSUFyNA-I

 

[DavidJames]

See if you can get past the source - Fox News - and focus on the video clips where Gruber twice points to the stupidity of the Americsn voter as essential to getting the ACA passed:

http://youtu.be/0_XSUFyNA-I

The stupidity of the American public has been well established. The Republicans have thrived on it for years. It's about time Democrates used to their advantage. The difference, of course, is Demoratic policies help the public.

 

[sunmaster14]

Yeah. that's option B

Not quite. Option B involves paying for the medical care themselves first. The taxpayer only picks up the tab after they've run out of assets. Obamacare is mostly about forcing people to buy financial protection, which of course is what insurance really is.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

The stupidity of the American public has been well established. The Republicans have thrived on it for years. It's about time Democrates used to their advantage. The difference, of course, is Demoratic policies help the public.

Wow.

I did not expect that!

Apologetics much?

 

[DavidJames]

Wow.

I did not expect that!

Apologetics much?

Look in the mirror much?

 

[3point14]

Not quite. Option B involves paying for the medical care themselves first. The taxpayer only picks up the tab after they've run out of assets. Obamacare is mostly about forcing people to buy financial protection, which of course is what insurance really is.

No, that's still option B - someone else is paying for their medical care.

I admit I missed the rider 'and can't afford to pay for it themselves' but I thought that went without saying, sorry.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Look in the mirror much?

Honestly don't know what you're referring to.

Example?

 

[sunmaster14]

No, that's still option B - someone else is paying for their medical care.

I admit I missed the rider 'and can't afford to pay for it themselves' but I thought that went without saying, sorry.

If they can't afford to pay for it themselves, then someone else will be paying for their medical care under Obamacare too.

 

[3point14]

If they can't afford to pay for it themselves, then someone else will be paying for their medical care under Obamacare too.

Under any un iversal healthcare system (or anything masquerading as one) that happens. That's the only way it can happen with anyone other than the extremely rich who can afford to pay circa US$10K/day for an ICU bed.

Insurance at least levels these costs out among the population. A situation that allows anyone to go unisured means that these costs will be unequally distributed.