Monsanto

[The Central Scrutinizer]

A good source for GMO information from a recognized expert in the field: http://kfolta.blogspot.com/

 

[commandlinegamer]

A common misconception. Point out that there is no such thing as "tomato DNA" or "fish DNA". There's just DNA. Each living thing is made up of some combination of DNA. I forget the example that is always used, but we share 40% of our DNA with a, lets say, mushroom. Does that mean we are 40% mushroom? Of course not.

Hmm, I always thought you were a fun guy.

 

[Skeletor]

A common misconception. Point out that there is no such thing as "tomato DNA" or "fish DNA". There's just DNA. Each living thing is made up of some combination of DNA. I forget the example that is always used, but we share 40% of our DNA with a, lets say, mushroom. Does that mean we are 40% mushroom? Of course not.

Oh I understand how it works, but a lot of the anti-GMO people bring it up, not knowing that the experiment failed. Just the fact that those meglomaniacs tried to do it is enough for the opponents to show what lengths science is going to improve how food is grown.

Hmm, I always thought you were a fun guy.

 

[RedPillNeo]

But now farmers grow so-called Bt corn, which has been genetically engineered to produce a pest-killing toxin. So, Seifert reasons, the plants themselves are toxic and before he and his sons can enter the cornfield, they need to take some precautions.

Jeez... BT is one of the best organic pest controls there is. It's real toxic, if you happen to be a caterpillar; otherwise, particularly to humans, not so much. Making corn make BT... sweet! The biggest danger is not that it will do something (to people), but it will become ineffective by helping BT resistant moth strains to evolve rapidly.

You'd think this kind of high order wrongness would trip everyone's BS meters. However, they're playing to an audience where over 90% has no idea what BT is before or after watching and never will, but still comes away from the video with a strong but unsupported broad GMO=BAD opinion. I guess this is the only way the video makers get away with using such a poor example.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

Monsanto, I read more and more and more in social networks about this "evil" entity and how it is being banned in several countries or how it wants to dominate the market and force people to pay them for using seeds, not FROM them but even if "contaminated by nature", and suing small farmers and etc.

Now, while I don't like the idea, at all, of eating food that has been "engineered" in a lab, and worst, subject to patents (I find the concept abominable), I do not know much more regarding why people in general is having such a hard time with Monsanto, I mean, from the point of view of conspiracy theories.

Personally my own conspiracy theory is that Monsanto planted anti-GMO activists to make ridiculous arguments so that legit concerns would drown out in the cacophony.

Believe me, I strongly believe Monsanto is evil. Absolutely 100%. Maybe one of the most evil corporations ever. Hitler was an amatuer in compareson. However, I rarely if ever actually see anyone explain why with legit arguments anymore. Which in a weird twisted way makes Monsanto seem not as bad as they really are in fact.

But just keep in mind. Monsanto is not alone by any stretch. They are simply the most favored whipping boy for a much larger problem.

We may congratulate ourselves that this cruel war is nearing its end.
It has cost a vast amount of treasure and blood. . . .
It has indeed been a trying hour for the Republic; but
I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes
me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war,
corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places
will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong
its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth
is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.
I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety
of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.
God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless. -Abraham Lincoln Nov. 21, 1864.

"The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

Uniquely, Monsanto seems to have potentially managed to be in both predictions of destruction, and managed to expand it's evil influence beyond just the nation, to the world.

 

[GlennB]

Jeez... BT is one of the best organic pest controls there is. It's real toxic, if you happen to be a caterpillar; otherwise, particularly to humans, not so much. Making corn make BT... sweet! The biggest danger is not that it will do something (to people), but it will become ineffective by helping BT resistant moth strains to evolve rapidly.

It could be argued that it doesn't much matter if those moths evolve to resist the Bt toxicity, just as it doesn't matter if weeds develop Roundup immunity. All that's lost is a temporary benefit that was useful in the years before they evolved that resistance.

A bigger worry would be if an evolved Bt or Roundup resistance accidentally conferred some unexpected benefit to a pest or disadvantage to a beneficial organism. Can't say I've heard of such things happening but erring on the side of caution seems a reasonable approach.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

It could be argued that it doesn't much matter if those moths evolve to resist the Bt toxicity, just as it doesn't matter if weeds develop Roundup immunity. All that's lost is a temporary benefit that was useful in the years before they evolved that resistance.

A bigger worry would be if an evolved Bt or Roundup resistance accidentally conferred some unexpected benefit to a pest or disadvantage to a beneficial organism. Can't say I've heard of such things happening but erring on the side of caution seems a reasonable approach.

I wonder how I managed, two years in a row so far, to grow organic sweet corn without either the Bt GE gene or Bt?

Now don't get me wrong. I have some Bt just in case, should I happen to need it. But I never even mixed any up this year.

 

[Mitchell314]

A common misconception. Point out that there is no such thing as "tomato DNA" or "fish DNA". There's just DNA. Each living thing is made up of some combination of DNA. I forget the example that is always used, but we share 40% of our DNA with a, lets say, mushroom. Does that mean we are 40% mushroom? Of course not.

"Tomato DNA" is shorthand for a Tomato's gene or genes, which is perfectly valid when you talk about things like apomorphies.

 

[ThunderChunky]

The national academy of science has published long and extensive reports on GMOs they pretty much cover all the valid concerns like economic, environmental, and health assessments. They don't get into the woo though because the woo is not even worth discussing amongst scientists.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

The national academy of science has published long and extensive reports on GMOs they pretty much cover all the valid concerns like economic, environmental, and health assessments. They don't get into the woo though because the woo is not even worth discussing amongst scientists.

Much like any tool, it's not the tool nearly as much as the purpose the tool is put to that determines it's value, good or bad, to society.

 

[marplots]

Believe me, I strongly believe Monsanto is evil. Absolutely 100%. Maybe one of the most evil corporations ever.

Monsanto can't help but be evil - it's in their genes.

 

[nvidiot]

Monsanto can't help but be evil - it's in their genes.

They're working on that.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

HQ's here in St. Louis, on Lindbergh, IIRC. Come on down and visit, ya'll.

 

[Mitchell314]

Hate on Monsanto all you want, but last I recall, they weren't the ones trying to patent human genes (which has very serious negative repercussions in the medical field). Blame the government for setting up the environment where their oligopoly goes unchallenged.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Hate on Monsanto all you want, but last I recall, they weren't the ones trying to patent human genes (which has very serious negative repercussions in the medical field). Blame the government for setting up the environment where their oligopoly goes unchallenged.

Are you trying to say dollars aren't more important than people? Are you daft?

 

[Mitchell314]

Are you trying to say dollars aren't more important than people? Are you daft?

Depends. Are those dollars going to my wallet?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Depends. Are those dollars going to my wallet?

Not Monsanto's.

 

[ThunderChunky]

Hate on Monsanto all you want, but last I recall, they weren't the ones trying to patent human genes (which has very serious negative repercussions in the medical field). Blame the government for setting up the environment where their oligopoly goes unchallenged.

Gene patents are being challenged in the courts. They way they have been used to prevent others from just sequencing a gene is total nonsense. It's not just bad patent law, but it makes no sense scientifically. I can only guess that bad lawyers are at fault.

It's quite interesting though how monsanto has become such a lightening rod for the woos on the left. So much so that even intelligent liberals have succumb to the woo and will say things like "I supports GMOs, but i hate monsanto." Invariably you find out these people are misinformed and believe such nonsense as monsanto suing unknowing farmers after monsanto genes accidentally pollinate their fields. When their errors are pointed out, it's usually met with either flat denial or "well... I still hate monsanto."

 

[Mitchell314]

Gene patents are being challenged in the courts. They way they have been used to prevent others from just sequencing a gene is total nonsense. It's not just bad patent law, but it makes no sense scientifically. I can only guess that bad lawyers are at fault.

It's quite interesting though how monsanto has become such a lightening rod for the woos on the left. So much so that even intelligent liberals have succumb to the woo and will say things like "I supports GMOs, but i hate monsanto." Invariably you find out these people are misinformed and believe such nonsense as monsanto suing unknowing farmers after monsanto genes accidentally pollinate their fields. When their errors are pointed out, it's usually met with either flat denial or "well... I still hate monsanto."

To be fair, from the folks I've worked with who've had to deal with Monsanto (I worked on an ag research farm), it isn't the most pleasant company to work with. Their products are good, but their customer service ain't quite up to par. And really that's just a symptom of a quasi-monopoly; the game is set up against newcomers legally and financially.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

Gene patents are being challenged in the courts. They way they have been used to prevent others from just sequencing a gene is total nonsense. It's not just bad patent law, but it makes no sense scientifically. I can only guess that bad lawyers are at fault.

It's quite interesting though how monsanto has become such a lightening rod for the woos on the left. So much so that even intelligent liberals have succumb to the woo and will say things like "I supports GMOs, but i hate monsanto." Invariably you find out these people are misinformed and believe such nonsense as monsanto suing unknowing farmers after monsanto genes accidentally pollinate their fields. When their errors are pointed out, it's usually met with either flat denial or "well... I still hate monsanto."

Yeah, and what about conservatives like me? What makes you think Monsanto is only hated by woo loving liberals? Oh and BTW, please tell me when exactly the Republicans went from being a champion of business, to a champion of big business? Subtle difference, but quite profound in real world policy. And when did it become conservative to put oppressive regulations preventing or reducing small business start up in favor of the industrial giants status quo? Maybe when conservative doesn't mean more liberal than the old northern democrat's business policies?