Switzerland's child slaves

[FromBelgiumWithLove]

Are you using 'chauvinism' to mean 'sexism' or something like it? I would associate actual chauvinism (excessive patriotism) with Americans at least as much as Germans.

I think what was meant was "male chauvinism", not the nationalistic kind
.

 

[carlitos]

"Rabenmütter", literally "raven mothers". Based on the myth that ravens eject their offspring from the nest after hatching.

Thanks.

Yes, I meant male chauvinism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauvinism#Male_chauvinism

 

[Rat]

Thanks.

Yes, I meant male chauvinism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauvinism#Male_chauvinism

I realized that really. I was being both facetious and somewhat disingenuous, since the use of 'chauvinist' to mean 'male chauvinist' irritates me to an inexplicable degree.

 

[John Nowak]

You are sure. On the basis of what information?

Smartcooky's family anecdotes. But by all means, keep those knees jerking and don't bother reading the rest of the thread.

 

[jimbob]

Smartcooky's family anecdotes. But by all means, keep those knees jerking and don't bother reading the rest of the thread.

Except that there FromBelgiumWithLove has pointed out that Smartcooky's family came from a more prosperous French-speaking canton, and that the laws and experience were quite different.

There are sufficient stories in the BBC article to suggest that abuse would have been rife.

Taking the child from the mother against her wishes, when the mother was able to look after the child was not the same a mutually-agreed custom of sending children off to a cousin's or friend's farm for work

David Gogniat heard a loud knock on the door. There were two policemen.

"I heard them shouting and realised something was wrong. I looked out and saw that my mother had pushed the policemen down the stairs," he says.

"She then came back in and slammed the door. The next day three policemen came. One held my mother and the other took me with them."

At the age of eight, he was in effect kidnapped and taken away to a farm. To this day he has no idea why.

It wasn't because the mother was unable to support them; she was still paying for their upkeep.

"The fact that my mother arranged to kidnap her own children and take them back home to Bern with her just goes to show how much she was struggling against the authorities," Gogniat says. On his mother's death he made a shocking discovery. He found papers which showed she had been paying money to the foster families for the upkeep of her four children, who had been forcibly taken away from her and were working as indentured labourers

 

[FromBelgiumWithLove]

Smartcooky's family anecdotes. But by all means, keep those knees jerking and don't bother reading the rest of the thread.

A remarkable response from someone who clearly didn't bother to read my post #21, and smartcooky's reply to it in post #31. You don't even seem to have bothered to read the BBC article that started the thread, let alone anything else on the subject. Smartcooky's mum isn't from the parts of Switzerland where this scheme (or rather schemes, it didn't work exactly the same way everywhere) operated, what is difficult to understand about that?

And while I have read every post in this thread, I prefer to read real articles about the issue by real Swiss people, rather than ignorant comments from non-Swiss people who can't be bothered to find out something about a topic before they spout off their opinions.

 

[FromBelgiumWithLove]

Switzerland mobilized and made it clear to Germany it would sell its hide dearly. And it compromised, e.g., by letting Nazis stash their gold there. And nobody, not even the Nazis, particularly likes to try to occupy mountainous terrain with a hostile population (see Yugoslavia).

And it is largely lost today but in terms of military excellence the Swiss were the German army of their day

Both of you seem to suggest the reason Nazi Germany didn't invade Switzerland was that they were afraid of the Swiss military (mostly civilians with rifles, then as now).

Why would Germany have wanted to invade Switzerland? It had no significant natural resources, no significant industry, no significant food surplus, it didn't control any vital supply routes, and it was already surrounded on all sides by Germany itself, its ally Italy, or countries occupied by Germany. On the other hand, as a supposedly neutral but German-friendly country it was the perfect conduit for all the shady financial dealings of both the regime and individual top Nazis. They didn't need to "compromise" to do so, they were more than happy to help out.

I also find it pretty doubtful that the Swiss army would have put on any significant defense if Hitler had been mad enough to order an invasion, given the political makeup of Switzerland, certainly the German-speaking part. They got the only German-language edition of the OKW's propaganda publication Signal (not for sale in Germany itself), and it sold in large numbers throughout the war.

 

[smartcooky]

Switzerland mobilized and made it clear to Germany it would sell its hide dearly. And it compromised, e.g., by letting Nazis stash their gold there. And nobody, not even the Nazis, particularly likes to try to occupy mountainous terrain with a hostile population (see Yugoslavia).

The only practical way though to Switzerland from Germany was via the high mountain passes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Redoubt_(Switzerland)

The Swiss had all the choke points on those roads mined and booby trapped, and many of the railways and tunnels too, so that they could be destroyed at very short notice. They also had heavily armed troops and fortifications in the hills above the roads. If the Germans had tried to invade that way, it would likely have been a turkey shoot.

On top of all that, you have armed citizenry. Every able bodied Swiss male over the age of 18 is a reservist and is armed. An invading army would find themselves confronting over a million armed men shooting from behind every tree, every building and through every window.

Essentially, an invasion of Switzerland would have proved so costly for the Germans in terms of dead soldiers and destroyed equipment, that they quickly realised it just wasn't worth it.

 

[FromBelgiumWithLove]

On top of all that, you have armed citizenry. Every able bodied Swiss male over the age of 18 is a reservist and is armed. An invading army would find themselves confronting over a million armed men shooting from behind every tree, every building and through every window.

Once again, that presupposes those people would want to fight the Germans. When Hitler invaded Austria, the Austrian army stood by and did nothing, except for a handful of units. And the willingness of the Swiss amateur armed forces to fight any foreign invader has never been tested, simply because nobody could ever be bothered to invade. There's nothing there that's of any use to anyone, except to the people who live there. If Switzerland had had oil, for instance, or a large gold mining industry, things would have been completely different.

 

[John Nowak]

A remarkable response from someone who clearly didn't bother to read my post #21, and smartcooky's reply to it in post #31. You don't even seem to have bothered to read the BBC article that started the thread, let alone anything else on the subject. Smartcooky's mum isn't from the parts of Switzerland where this scheme (or rather schemes, it didn't work exactly the same way everywhere) operated, what is difficult to understand about that?

And while I have read every post in this thread, I prefer to read real articles about the issue by real Swiss people, rather than ignorant comments from non-Swiss people who can't be bothered to find out something about a topic before they spout off their opinions.

Enjoy your moral outrage.